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RSH
PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov 2013, 23:59    Post subject:

Quote:
Ok. Just checked this out.

Aaarrggghhhh...

I should not have done this!

I'm still online with this EN version, as I have noticed yet, the Easy Online Updater is telling me, there is no internet connection available and therefor the search for updates was exited.

Though, it should have found some update packages provided.

Hm.

Might have to check this later - much later.

Edit:

He he. That's just somehow funny to use this "long time no seen" LazY Puppy Version in EN...
RSH
PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov 2013, 22:07    Post subject:

MochiMoppel wrote:
RSH wrote:
Please, do have a look again into /etc/rc.d and you'll find 3 (three) rc.shutdown files.
As there are:
new-rc.shutdown
orig-rc.shutdown
rc.shutdown
I'm using this to switch a option to create a save file (if wanted), which is able to be switched on/off by LazY Puppy's Shutdown-GUI.
I used your shutdown GUI. I selected to reboot and I also selected the create save file option: The screen went black and the computer became unresponsive. Had to do a hard reset. Again my point: You replaced a perfectly usable standard solution with a ...OK, never mind.

Coming from the "A vote for a modular use of Puppy Linux" thread.

Hi.

This could have been possibly a not yet reported bug in the EN version, since I'm developing in DE and then turning it into EN.

Reason of "not yet reported" could have been strictly modular use (as I suggest) by LazY Puppy users or even nobody is using LazY Puppy.

I doubt, it would be the last! Laughing

Ok. Just checked this out.

Booting LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005 EN Version, installing my GPRS USB modem, connecting to the web, loading Firefox 7 and entering murga forum, quit Firefox, doing a reboot (activated option to create a save file in Shutdown-GUI).

Save file was successfully created. No black screen. Reboot offers the Firefox already loaded, online after plugging in GPRS modem and connecting via GPRS connect.

Don't know what was going wrong as you did try this on the your computer.

Currently posting from the rebooted LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005 EN version, previous created save file in use!

/etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE wrote:
PUPMODE=12
PDEV1='sdd1'
DEV1FS='vfat'
PUPSFS='sdd1,vfat,/LazY202Web/StArtLPx2_202.sfs'
PUPSAVE='sdd1,vfat,/LazY202Web/StArtLPx2save-MochiMoppelENTest.2fs'
PMEDIA='atahd'
#ATADRIVES is all internal ide/pata/sata drives, excluding optical, excluding usb...
ATADRIVES='sda sdb sdc '
#ATAOPTICALDRIVES is list of non-usb optical drives...
ATAOPTICALDRIVES='sr0 '
#these directories are unionfs/aufs layers in /initrd...
SAVE_LAYER='/pup_rw'
PUP_LAYER='/pup_ro2'
#The partition that has the StArtLPx2save file is mounted here...
PUP_HOME='/mnt/dev_save'
#(in /initrd) ...note, /mnt/home is a link to it.
#this file has extra kernel drivers and firmware...
ZDRV=''
#complete set of modules in the initrd (moved to main f.s.)...
ZDRVINIT='no'
#Partition no. override on boot drive to which session is (or will be) saved...
PSAVEMARK=''
mikeb
PostPosted: Sun 27 Oct 2013, 07:36    Post subject:

Yo.... the joy of modularity. I even can share my slax modules with puppy 4 now and even the save is an sfs..... we are obsessed.

You iz not stopping (or hiding so others do the work for a while Wink ) you are evolving

mike
RSH
PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct 2013, 22:08    Post subject:

Hi.

Just for your interest: I have uploaded some new SFS Modules.

LP2_AutoAdjustPhoto_GUI-2.0.sfs - can now work with single and multiple files
LP2_Ease-0.4-full.sfs - a presentation program, which reminds me at powerpoint (needs XorgHigh installed)
LP2_IconFinder-1.4.sfs - latest Version from SFR just as SFS Module
LP2_PEasyMM-Suite-1.0.0.sfs - Audio, Video, CD and DVD Media Suite, containing the Applications written by rcrsn51
LP2_QTGain-0.9.5_i386.sfs - a QT based MP3, OGG, AAC and Metaflac Gain Program

---

Lots of postings meanwhile happened...

mikeb wrote:
Well have fun RSH.... irrepressable....

I do! Laughing

Markups added by me.
Pelo wrote:
LazyPuppy loaded on precise ?
I usually now load on the fly oldest puppy on recent distros.
I am running lazy puppy with Precise.
Why ? I am far from my home and only wifi works. Lucid cannot connect wifi with my computer, but Precise does.
I only load the Lazy SFS on the fly and with the desktop program, i choose a lazy pup theme and background. The result is a distro in french.

Pelo wrote:
Menus are in french.
As Precise is upgrated with french language, even lazy programs are translated ! Foolish, no ?
Menu is a sum of both distros.

greengeek wrote:
Nice work! How do you get this to work? (How is it possible to run the Precise sfs and the Lazy sfs at the same time without something like virtualbox?). Thanks.

@Pelo
No, I don't think this is foolish - as long as it isn't done while using the favorite personal save file. I did use this "art of using sfs files" first in the beginning of LazY Puppy. Used sfs was the main sfs from Muppy 08.3F (had to convert it to squashfs version 4 first). Did grab some applications from the Muppy for the use in LazY Puppy. Was a good way to figure out, what will work and what won't.

@greengeek
Just run the Puppy and load LazY Puppy's main sfs by sfs_load. That's all.

But not all .desktop files will appear in the menu, because of the specialized LazY Puppy Menu Categories!

All "Open With" entries should be there, so one can use the SFS P.L.U.S. functions by right-click action!

By the way:

This is exactly the way I do usually update my Osiris Studio, which is a LazY Puppy Derivative with XorgHigh, Jack-Audio and all necessary Audio Applications (like Ardour, Audacity, Rosegarden etc.pp.) installed.

When developing I do use my private LazY Puppy which is around 130 MB in size. The Osiris Studio is around 300 MB in size. After development is finshed I do a remaster of LazY Puppy, booting the new remastered LazY Puppy again, loading the Osiris Studio main sfs file by sfs_load and doing a remaster immediately - which works very well, because of the same kernel versions (2.6.33.2).

sunburnt wrote:
Sorry to hear your variant is gone RHS. And another one bites the dust...

The ISO and SFS files are still available to download and will stay as long as possible. But I will not publish a new version.

To publish a new version is too much work for me to do and would make me responsible in a way, I don't want to be responsible - because: I'm still a newbie and there is these and that what can't be done by myself. Just running out of knowledge...

sunburnt wrote:
I appeal to you to preserve the "details" of what you have created here.
Much custom code has been created for LazyPup that shouldn`t be lost.

It`s truly unique, steps further in development than ChoicePup which came before.

This is exactly what I'm currently trying to do.

By now I do have a 19 MB LazY Puppy SFS file. When loading this sfs file by sfs_load into a fresh clean Puppy, I'm allowed to use around 95% of my private LazY Puppy's functions (which is currently a lot of more than the 2.0.2-005 WebVersion has installed).

The last 5% are added after installing a combined Openbox-Tint2 PET. It would be ready then for a remaster to be named LazY Puppy. Laughing

What doesn't work is the LazY Puppy Boot Options, because this needs to edit the initrd.gz. Though they aren't really needed anymore.

My target is to make the modular concept of LazY Puppy available for any other Puppy (execpt FatDog) just by a SFS Module!

Actually it works really fine, but lots of scripts are still only in DE. So, still much work to do...

Beside this I'm working currently on a WebPage for LazY Puppy and its related stuff (found this option by the LxPup Thread).

sunburnt wrote:
### A newer version based on Raring would be the next step.

# Perhaps a new partner will step forward and offer to take up the banner?
Providing the effort and any new code required to make a Raring variant.

It would seem not too difficult for someone familiar with Pup builder scripts.
Like anything, the first few are the learning phase, and then it`s old hat.

Newer version should then to be build easily by anyone who knows how to load a SFS, doing a remaster and keeping stuff from /etc and /root when remastering - hopefully (works over here already) Very Happy Laughing

So, the user can choose his Puppy (on whatever OS based) to use all of this and I'm not responsible for the issues of the used OS. Just for the SFS's Applications.

If there will be any new Puppy in the future... ... ...

mikeb wrote:
@sunburnt...the neat stuff is used here on a daily basis

Exactly! Laughing

sunburnt wrote:
Puppy is for the most part a one-man-show. Many of them...

Yes, and so is LazY Puppy.

sunburnt wrote:
Doesn`t it seem that cooperation for common good is best?

Could be best, but is not necessary the best generally.

I doubt, LazY Puppy would be LazY Puppy if there would have been a LazY Puppy Development Team or Group.

On the other Hand, some of LazY Puppy's benefits could be possibly way smarter as it actually is, with some more efficient programmers joining such LazY Puppy Development Team.

mikeb wrote:
How much of the ideas in Lazy puppy will actually ever get utilised in precise??

Actually NONE.

mikeb wrote:
Are we off topic

No!

the last saviour wrote:
I'd just noticed a funny calendar in Pwidget.

I remember having this already in September 2012... Laughing

mikeb wrote:
A toast to Lazy Puppy ... I always liked the name

For about one year I did nearly daily think about to change its name. Luckily I didn't do it. Very Happy

smithy wrote:
Sometimes it might be better to programme alone, and my thinking is that RSH could have been sidetracked by comments and suggestions which might have diminished his vision of what the Lazy Puppy system was to be?

This might have happened, when there would have been a LazY Puppy Development Team. Though, while I'm programming alone, I've had almost an opened mind (and opened eyes) to suggestions made somewhere on the forum. What did fit into my vision and/or looked like a useful addition, I did try to adopt to LazY Puppy.

Examples:

- the User-Modes and Menu-Suite are a result of a suggestion made by diggs
- the SFS P.L.U.S. Applications are a result of a suggestion made by der-schutzhund (it just took LazY Puppy 528-4's SFS Handling to a next level)
- VarioMenu is made by der-schutzhund and SFR

---

Thanks for all the interesting posts an insights...

RSH
mikeb
PostPosted: Thu 03 Oct 2013, 07:42    Post subject:

Quote:
Sometimes it might be better to programme alone, and my thinking is that RSH could have been sidetracked by comments and suggestions which might have diminished his vision of what the Lazy Puppy system was to be?

the biggest problem of 'going public' ...so easy to end up pampering to someones pet desires or deal with someones weird mess of a setup that wont work properly.... i see it on such as puppy and slax...probably happens with all the smaller distros...
'my icons want to be 10% bigger' overrides.... 'the devx is broken for kernel module building'. One has to have a suitably selective ear...

Well have fun RSH.... irrepressable....

mike
RSH
PostPosted: Thu 03 Oct 2013, 02:40    Post subject:

The all new RSHs LazY Puppy OS and Software Development Web Page
Smithy
PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep 2013, 14:33    Post subject:

Epic post.

Sometimes it might be better to programme alone, and my thinking is that RSH could have been sidetracked by comments and suggestions which might have diminished his vision of what the Lazy Puppy system was to be?

Them pesky aliens eh.... Wink
the last saviour
PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep 2013, 07:48    Post subject:

Lieber Herr RSH;
I'd just noticed a funny calendar in Pwidget. As you can see the last coloum should be one row up.
I know that LaZy project is finished, but in case you will still continue Pwidget in other release.

This is also an argument to change my focus. I don't want to be responsible for problems and issues that are results of remastering a puppy and/or adding/removing stuff to the OS etc.pp. My responsibility in the future should only be related to the programs developed and published.
---- This is the indication that you need a team work!

Believe me: not a single second was wasted!
---- I believe that. But your time value will be markedly increased if you product is appreciated by a bigger scale of users.

Before I continue I have to correct a mistake, very sorry for this;
From If it's for their personal use that's should be fine.
To If it's for a group of users that's should be fine.

Smithy
Did this come from an office memo in the Mc Carthy Witchhunt Trials of the 50'
---- Sorry, I've never heard of that story.

sunburnt
the last saviour; Expressing one`s self. And helping others.
---- As God has assigned me to be the Last Saviour, helping others is my duty definitely. Smile
I don't express myself, but I did interpret my 5th dream. God had already created 5 colourful dreams for me. 4 dreams had already become true. And I will not surprised if the last one will be true, it's more colourful than others.
Dreaming is the most important method for divines to give information to somebody since the ancient time. Normal dream is the outcome of data hidden in the subconscious. But because of the limitation of memory and they're going to be destroyed(forgot), all these data are incompleted. So the normal dream is B&W and fragmented, while the continuous colorful dream is going to be true, because some divine creates that dream for you. This is the major method that God gave information to someone in India. Thus many truths are hidden in Hindu scripture. But there are also many mistakes because of the wrong interpretations.

http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/default_en.htm
I found this website 3 months ago, firstly it couldn't convince me. But now I believe in some information.
http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/newsitems2012.html
If Rockyfeller's cars are pink and sky blue. Then I believe that the building I saw in my dream is the Rockyfeller building. And they are not ET but chipped.
http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/video_en.htm#nenechame_se_ocipovat

What makes Debian and Ubuntu work? Lots of folks each doing a small part.
They aren`t one-man-shows, like it is here at Puppy.
But as many say... This is probably all Puppy will ever be.
---- I believe Mint, Fedora, Mandriva and Android also has a team work. Not to mentioned that MS, Apple, Samsung, Nokia etc. hires dozen of programmers. One-man-Puppy is only for a group of users not for the top commercial market level. But team-worked Puppy can achieve the top commercial market level.

mikeb
Because they vainly hope it will bring in new ideas but eventaully they realise that having it for your own use is as far as you will get.
---- Yes, it will bring the new ideas. But the new ideas can be etiher better or waste of time. I had tried many variants of DM&FM in Linux and found KDE+Dolphin to be better than MS, and XFCE+??? is slightly better than MS.
Should we spend more time to create any new idea of DM&FM to be better than KDE+Dolphin?

jpeps
Puppy is at the top of it's class for a minimal sized distro. The creativity and innovation shown by the community has been nothing short of phenomenal.
---- But as CPU speed can be double every ~5 years and media storage can be double at a faster speed, there's no significant point to pay attention to OS size and speed. MS has used the same DM&FM for >20 years. Is there any user complain of this old DM&FM? MS only adds more features and fixed those bugs. And users enjoy MS because of the vast variety of softwares and hardware friendly. As you probably know that many Puppy users still use MS because of features of software and hardware support is better.

At last I have to inform you that there's a big knocking of unknown source in my room while I explain about alien in this comment.

Best regards.
mikeb
PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 11:08    Post subject:

Hmm I played with a distro with a 3.2.xx kernel and similar dated binaries...was a nightmare... backward compatability is not a Linux strong point and more bugs than a compost convention. In puppies case the wrappers seem to bog it down increasingly with each release.

My website host has recently updated to a 2.6.33 kernel.... servers are pretty conservative when it comes to what they run as they need it to work 24/7...and some devs new core system experiment would ruin their day. Tried and tested is the sensible approach in the commercial world.

actually greengeek the daily system(s)are circa puppy 4.12/slax 6/lenny .... still ok for recent software (amazing how the need for dependancy updates disappear when you compile applications yourself) and building drivers for such has generally been no problem. The 2 series got to be a little awkward in some areas...though it was a testing ground for all those things that ended up on the newer systems. I do have a rejiggled Lucid for some point in the future.

All things will change.... just at a more natural pace I prefer. I don't consider 6 months as 'old' or 'ancient' ...what would that make me !!!!... Shocked At least there is a pile of willing beta testers out there preparing my future....

A toast to Lazy Puppy ... I always liked the name Smile

mike
greengeek
PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 05:02    Post subject:

sunburnt wrote:
Older versions don`t tend to be better
If thats true then why is mikeb still running on a v2 puppy? Must be a reason why he hasn't gone to a 5 series puppy.

And look at what RSH is doing with puppy - in a way he is "de-inflating" it. By using the sfs approach he is enabling a tight core, with the specific additions the user wants.

I'm referring to the idea of having a technique of sticking with the smallest, fastest kernel that DOES support your hardware, and adding on only the required sfs files for the newer software functions you want.

As hardware marches on, maybe it is not the entirety of puppy that needs to keep pace - maybe only the kernel and sfs loader or ROX-app loader that need to be updated. So you only need to update if your hardware fails to work with the previous kernel/loader combo.

Still just spitballin' here...
sunburnt
PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 02:35    Post subject:

Older versions don`t tend to be better. New ones support newer stuff and the old also.
The older O.S.s and software get the less compatible and more worthless they are.

Like Apple, if you have fixed known hardware, then compile the driver modules into the kernel.
This is the way Linus Torvalds intended it to be. Supporting all types of hardware is a nightmare.
.
mikeb
PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep 2013, 18:37    Post subject:

Hmm you describe something between an apple mac and those linux netbooks that appeared for a while. The latter had such as suse on them using older kernels and drivers built specifically.

I am one for compiling drivers on established kernels and as you mention trying to keep up with hardware changes is producing some humungus kernels/modules/firmware builds. My feelings on the subject would be to modularise at least wifi drivers ie more akin to the windows approach of installing drivers to suit... even with video this sort of happens if you have Nvidia or Ati. This thought does tend to fall in a heap when you are dealing with multiple kernel changes every week though. I wonder if such as Lucid have had such popularity partly through sticking with one kernel for a sustained period. As someone pointed out a kernel change is akin to a new release of windows.

Are we off topic ... usually and apologies to RSH et al but I suppose the pros and cons of 'distro fever' are related.

wear loose clothing

mike
greengeek
PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep 2013, 18:14    Post subject:

Thanks for the answer mike. I certainly see the value in keeping one's custom pup under wraps to avoid it soiling the floors of people who run completely different hardware...
I do sometimes wonder if a good approach to getting a well-functioning pup would be to have a project built around a specific hardware. For example your custom pup obviously works well for the hardware you use it on (including good boot speed I imagine..). It seems to me that part of the reason for puppy's fragmentation is that the hardware keeps changing so the development of any given puppy never quite stabilises.

I'd like to see a project to make an old puppy perform like magic on something like one specific model of an older HP laptop (I can't say specifically which one would be good for the process..).

Imagine if a 2 series pup could be made to run real quick on such a machine - surely it would only need a basic, speedy core with a modern browser sfs and office sfs added on? Does it really need a 5 series pup weighted down with modules and modifications that allow it to run on a wide range of hardware??

Just spitballin' here.
mikeb
PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep 2013, 16:13    Post subject:

@greengeek ... Erm No and sort of.... Intially changes were made to optimise and try out alternative saving methods and sfs loading. I tended to keep things 'the puppy way' but eventually it becomes necessary to break away from the convention. Saying that when it comes to the initrd I built around the 2 series as a simpler base after finding 4+ increasingly hairy so to anyone familiar with older pups its not that different...eg no sub sub sub sub folders and numerous kernel parameters to try and circumvent a slow boot process..but those only used to puppy 5 would find things uncomfortably different..

Of course it also becomes the case that anyone doing this will only have the hardware at hand to test on eg in Lucid usbhid drivers were split up and involved script hacking to deal with and if its not right wireless input devices might go awry for example but I have none to verify all is still happy. I have no dial up modems so cannot check those, though I tried to leave such alone, if a kernel has been swapped they may be affected (modprobe backend and related scripts)
I add certain proprietry drivers as needed. I avoid bleeding edge.

In other words such projects tend to become custom jobs though I do have a small menagerie here that would beat me up if the machines did not behave Very Happy It also means my scripts become less and less compatible as puppy marches on.

Anyone releasing their baby on the puppy public is exposing themselves and it can be a thankless task... I have only had a small taste of that so generally I tend to throw in and discuss ideas so perhaps others might want to give them a whirl on their projects.

A long winded vague answer for you....

mike
sunburnt
PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep 2013, 16:01    Post subject:

To use LazyPup as an example, just a few are needed to maintain a bare-bones core O.S.
And folks each specializing in a chosen group of new app. packages, and so doing it well.
Web browsers, media players-editors-encoders, office suites, games, languages & dev., etc.
Once there`s a good set of app. groups, then the only work is building newly released apps.

With about 6 people ( and 4 substitutes so no one`s over worked ) this could be sustainable.
This is how Debian and Ubuntu maintain their distros. And they`re very large cooperatives.
This type of organization could work even better in smaller groups like is needed for Puppy.
It depends so heavily on the people involved, but limiting the work load for each sure helps.
.
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