What are the newer xfce puppies?

Message

johnywhy · #1 Post by **johnywhy** » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 06:24

am i missing any?

i found:

- XenialPup64 R5 with XFCE https://sourceforge.net/projects/xenialpup64-with-xfce/

- xenialpup64-7.5-uefi https://sourceforge.net/projects/xenialpup64-with-xfce/ (same as above?)

- xfcexenial-R5-fixed http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111885 (same as above?)

- XFCE-4.12r6b.pet https://sourceforge.net/projects/xenial ... etversion/ (xfce pet)

- XenialPup64 7.5 plus battleshooter's xfce pet http://puppylinux.com/ (no idea if this will work)

- Xenialpup64 CE 7.5 plus battleshooter's xfce pet http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107331 (no idea if this will work)

- xerus64-8.6 plus battleshooter's xfce pet (no idea if this will work) http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... xerus-8.6/ (no idea if this will work)

(not sure which xenial is latest, and whether i should use battleshooter's xfce pet with latest xenial, or if better to use older pre-bundled version)

- xslacko 4.4 http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88846

- X-Slacko Slim 4.4r6 http://no-windows.blog.jp/archives/74584614.html

- X-Slacko Slim 4.4 https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_xslacko-slim

- xtahr 2.0 http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... dc1d078984

mikeslr · #2 Post by **mikeslr** » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 22:12

I don't think you've missed any. Just wanted to point out that with the exception of the Slackos and xtahr, all derive from battleshooter's work simultaneously in developing the XFCE pet and the XFCE Xenialpup.

Considering your comment on the other thread that Xenialpup with xfce was slower on your old computer than your other Pups, and noticing that you run xtahr, you might want to stick with the latter.

But there is one alternative you might consider, albeit a 32-bit system; something battleshooter also contributed to. That is the last Carolina, Carolina-Vanguard, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 591#814591. What you could do is update its kernel and add Mike Walsh's gtk3 pet. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 764#989764

mikesLr

johnywhy · #3 Post by **johnywhy** » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 22:26

thx for suggestions mikesLr, Carolina and Saluki were my faves back in the day. But they seem to be abandoned. I'll try your suggestions!

a_salty_dogg · #4 Post by **a_salty_dogg** » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 22:28

I used to find xfce on Tahr 6.02 marginally lighter on resources than the default desktop on my old 1.5 GB P4 (but not a great deal of difference tbh), though I didn't much like that black line down the LH side of the screen when the pinboard was closed, even when pushed right over to the edge.

mikeslr · #5 Post by **mikeslr** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 00:27

Hi johnywhy,

Note, first-off, I haven't tried to update Carolina. I've got too many other 'fish to fry'. But, if I were going to, I'd use one of the recent kernels I mentioned here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 07#1002507

And see this post pertaining to one of Sailor Enceladus' Kernels and festus' openssl, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 775#989775. The latter is available via a link on festus' post a couple posts above it.

You'll find Mike Walsh's gtk3 pet here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 764#989764. The 'precise' label is accurate, but in some ways unfortunately suggests a limitation which doesn't exist. I've used it in Slacko 5.7(& 5.7.1) in order to be able to run fredx181's firefox quantum, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 010#978010.

The base packages for Slacko 5.6/7, Precise and Racy 5.5 date back to a couple of months of each other in 2013. Carolina origin was a woof-build re-thinking of racy 5.2. But Carolina Vanguard is a remaster with updated kernel (3.18.1), gcc 4.9.2 and glibc libraries (2.20) in 2014. These components are contemporary with those found in X-tahr. So there's a good chance Mike Walsh's pet can be used. Perhaps even a better chance if you use the kernel mentioned above.

An alternative or fallback for modern web-browser if that doesn't work would be watchdog's Palemoon.

mikesLr

rg66 · #6 Post by **rg66** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 02:27

One thing to remember with Carolina or Vanguard, you don't have the benefit of a full fledged repo as with Ubuntu or Slackware. You only have what Geoffrey or Battleshooter uploaded to Smokey01's server, every other package is trial and error.

mikeslr · #7 Post by **mikeslr** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 02:47

True. But what an extensive body of software in that repo.

. And frankly, unless you're into some endeavor where you require the latest "bells & whistles", about the only things which actually require updating are security and web-browsers, the later for security and to access a lot of today's graphic rich website. One of the benefits of older versions of software, when you can use them, is that they required fewer computer resources.

Honestly, rg66, you, Geoffey, elwood, and battleshooter did a great job in keeping jemimah's original vision up-to-date for as long as possible. It has, and continues, to inspire us.

mikesLr

p.s. I edited my previous post having realized that the original Saluki was based on racy 5.2 and that battleshooter hadn't only updated glibc libraries in Vanguard.

johnywhy · #8 Post by **johnywhy** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 07:21

mikeslr wrote:Considering your comment on the other thread that Xenialpup with xfce was slower on your old computer than your other Pups, and noticing that you run xtahr, you might want to stick with the latter.

Indeed, especially since it runs Chrome v32 just fine, installed from quickpet. True, some extensions don't work on v32, but damn, pages load fast

Why do i need openssl? Isn't that for web-hosts?

An alternative or fallback for modern web-browser if that doesn't work would be watchdog's Palemoon.

Gotta have a blink browser. Need my chrome extensions

there is one alternative you might consider, albeit a 32-bit system; something battleshooter also contributed to. That is the last Carolina

xtahr is also 32-bit, and it's very fast.

I haven't tried to update Carolina. I've got too many other 'fish to fry'. But, if I were going to, I'd use one of the recent kernels I mentioned here

so just, try the newest kernel, see if it works, if not then try the next newest one, etc...?

- Do you recommend updating xtahr kernel?
- What might be the benefits vlina over xtarh, iyho?

Imho, xfce is the best lightweight desktop. I don't understand why no "official" pups use it. i get that it's bigger than jwm, but it blows away lxde, imo. Elegant, stable, powerful, fast, awesome features-- does some tricks Windows can't do

Mike Walsh · #9 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 14:11

Mike/Johnywhy:-

Just to add my 2-penn'orth to all of this, I have to confess that one of my very favourite Pups was rg66's X-Slacko 2.3.2, based on 01Micko's 'classic' Slacko 570 with the XFCE desktop. While it ran, it was rock-solid (with that base, it's hardly surprising).....but, some 18-20 months down the line, the desktop decided to do a disappearing act, and, try as I might (including haunting the XFCE forums for several weeks), I just could not get it to re-appear.

So, I gave it up as a 'bad job' (a real shame), and decided to give X-Tahr 2.0 a try instead. Also X-Slacko 4.2.....but, months down the line, those two also suffered from the exact same 'problem'.

Perhaps some kind of issue with my Radeon graphics adapter. I've had a similar problem with one or two JWM-based Puppies, but, by and large, JWM works well for me. Curiously, on the old Dell lappie, with that grotty old 'Brookedale'-cored 'Extreme' graphics adapter, it never did mis-behave..... (??)

-------------------------------

BTW, that reference to 'my' GTK-3.0 pet is not, strictly speaking, entirely accurate. I posed the same question about Quantum when it first appeared late last year. Perdido, bless him, pointed me in the direction of a pair of packages, originally put together using components from Precise 571, which, in the interests of simplicity & ease of installation, I merely combined into one and re-released as a 'new' .pet.....for others to benefit from. It now seems that I'm the one getting credit for this; as so often, it's a case of 'standing on the shoulders of giants', and merely building on the work of previous, far more talented Puppians of days gone by.....

Be that as it may, if it does the job for folks, then I'm glad it helps. I think it's more a case of resurrecting stuff from years ago, making it more current, and posting about it in the current day.....which simply makes the package easier to locate again!

I refuse to take credit for the work of others. (*shrug*) I've made a bit of a habit of doing this same thing for multiple applications; where 'components' for said apps were published as a series of individual .pets in the past, I've simply combined all necessary .pets together into a single .pet or SFS package to facilitate installation. Sometimes, this isn't practical; witness battleshooter's 'glibc-2.20 upgrade' he originally put together for Racy 5.5/Carolina & Saluki, so that fans could use the latest Chrome/Chromium. (I believe t'other Mike was one of those to originally request it.) It consists of 5 separate .pets; 3 are straight-forward, and can be installed in any order.....but out of the remaining 2, one must be installed before the other, due to dependency issues. Thus, it's impractical to combine these together, since some stuff won't get installed correctly.

Having said all that, the easier we can make Puppy for newbies to use, it can only help to turn beginners on to Puppy.....rather than turning them away. And I'm all for that.

Mike.

mikeslr · #10 Post by **mikeslr** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 14:15

Hi again johnywhy,

"Imho, xfce is the best lightweight desktop. I don't understand why no "official" pups use it."

That's my opinion as well. But that's primarily because Imho having Whisker Menu creates the most efficient desktop (unless you're into keyboard commands).

I don't think there's a significant difference between how much computer resources (RAM, CPU) xfce and Openbox + lxpanel use. Creating panel launchers in Lxpanel may be more intuitive than under xfce. And Xfce usually comes with Thunar as file-manager, while the LxPups have used pcmanfm which has more options and is more configurable.

In theory, an OS can be created using Xfce window manager and pcmanfm as file-manager (or any other file-manager). IIRC, one of the light-weight distros actually does. Xfce and thunar are not dependent on each other's presence. But I think the learning curve to create a different combination may be higher.

"Official pups" however are those created by woof. And the devs at woof hold to the jwm-rox tradition. Consequently, non-jwm-rox Puppies are created by remastering, someone has to do it, and there are really only a handful of Puppy-Fans with the skills.

There's a project for you -- a goal to strive for while you explore Puppies and you develop your skills: join Rg66 and Battleshooter (amd DryFalls) in developing xfce Puppies. An xfce-Bionic Puppy would be awesome.

And perhaps as a starting point --or just for the fun of it-- do an update of x-tahr. On such project there's a couple of things I did which can get you started in updating the applications. Perhaps see this post for ideas, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 810#982810. And you can download the Update package from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 927#982927. Many of the applications I included are newer than those found in X-tahr, and even though X-tahr uses xfce-thunar most can be used with it.

But learning just what applications have to go into an Xfce Puppy, and what applications (modules) found in a 'stock puppy' can be left out, you're on your own. Best to examine what rg66 and battleshooter did. And google a lot and read.

Mostly, don't sell yourself short. We are all much smarter than anyone gives us credit for. We can all learn and master anything we have an interest in. The difference between someone with average intelligence and a genius is how quickly they can solve a puzzle. IQ scores actually just measure speed. Perhaps that was important when the average life-span was 40 years. Now it's closer to 80. What's a couple weeks difference when you have 80 years to work with. Or take it from Einstein, a recognized genius: "Genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration." Or from me, who I have every reason to believe still holds the worst grade-point average of anyone who ever graduated from my college: "You can do whatever you set your mind to."

mikesLr

P.S. I see Mike Walsh has posted while I was writing. Don't know why his computers have a problem with xfce. But I can tell you this. I've observed his skills develop over the last couple of years. At first I'd have said we were at about the same skill level. But since then he's delved deeper, tried harder and taken the time to 'stand on the shoulders of' different 'giants' and so now knows much more than I. If anything, Mike Walsh is a case in point about what interest and effort can accomplish.

While it is appropriate that he give credit to perdido, god bless him, I am reminded of an anecdote from my days as an Assistant Prosecutor. The 'events' supposedly took place under the 'Old Common Law'. The Judge, reading the Jury's Verdict says:

"Mr. Smith, the Jury as acquitted you of the Charge of Murder but has found you guilty of the Charge of Manslaughter. Bailiff, take him out and hang him."

Billtoo · #11 Post by **Billtoo** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 14:28

I installed xfce4 in Phil's xenialpup64-7.5 with PPM,it's working great on this pc.
Haven't tried it on the 32bit xenialpup-7.5 yet.
------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Changed kernel and installed xfce4 on another flash drive install.

johnywhy · #12 Post by **johnywhy** » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 17:08

mikeslr wrote:I don't think there's a significant difference between how much computer resources (RAM, CPU) xfce and Openbox + lxpanel use.

what about disk space?

Creating panel launchers in Lxpanel may be more intuitive than under xfce.

i haven't used lxpanel in a few years, but i know i found xfce panel more intuitive, powerful, easier, more elegant. lxde seemed clunky, unattractive, and amateurish to me (and buggie).

Xfce usually comes with Thunar as file-manager, while the LxPups have used pcmanfm which has more options and is more configurable.

for users coming from windows, Thunar is the loveliest linux file-manager i've used, including pcmanfm. Both are preferable to jwm-rox.

the devs at woof hold to the jwm-rox tradition

join the 21st century, woof devs!

no offense. Disk-footprint may be their reason, and a good reason.

There's a project for you -- a goal to strive for while you explore Puppies and you develop your skills

tbh, i'm only looking for a stable, user-friendly, tiny linux, to use and to share with friends. Not looking to become a hardcore puppy dev.

do an update of x-tahr

i'm doing that in the easiest way, with least pain-- modding my OOTB xtarh (trimming with remove-builtin tool, upgrading with packages dev'd by other people, added via ppm, pets, sfs's),
and then remastering. Not looking to reinvent the wheel, just build on the shoulders of a stable puppy masterfully created by other amazing people.

don't sell yourself short. We are all much smarter than anyone gives us credit for

thx for inspiration!

zagreb999 · #13 Post by **zagreb999** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 08:22

regards

the best xfce is in debiandog
or xenial dog
install with synaptic
------------

or: take euclid3.iso

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... d1618d8a07

ally · #14 Post by **ally** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 08:24

http://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linux_euclid

fredx181 · #15 Post by **fredx181** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 10:20

euclid 1 and 2 were OK, but not euclid3.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 812#996812

zagreb999 · #16 Post by **zagreb999** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 11:11

sir fred,
thank you!
please, can you post just one proof why
euclid3.iso is not ok?
you do not like apt-source list...
just , take from debiandog and repalace it.
but, op.system is perfect!

regards!

fredx181 · #17 Post by **fredx181** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 14:32

Hi zagreb,

please, can you post just one proof why
euclid3.iso is not ok?
you do not like apt-source list...
just , take from debiandog and repalace it.
but, op.system is perfect!

I said already in euclid3 thread, mixing oldstable (Jessie) and stable (Stretch) is bad practice.
The binaries and libraries included in euclid3 are from Jessie, in sources.list it says Stretch.
It would be OK if the ISO contains binaries and libraries from Stretch.
Proof? Well... for example: Everytime you install a program it is going to upgrade all dependencies to Stretch, which is a real waste of space.
Or: Do a "apt-get upgrade", and you will be confronted with a BIG list of "upgradable" packages. (all upgrading to Stretch)
Sure you can edit sources.list and make it all Jessie, but you cannot expect to do that from an average user or newcomer.
Hope you understand what I'm saying, I know language is a barrier.

But this is all off-topic, sorry guys !

Fred

zagreb999 · #18 Post by **zagreb999** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 15:41

thank you fred!

all great linux op.systems -debian,ubuntu, mxlinux...-
have functions- update and upgrade...
debiandog can not do the same?!
what about function "generate source list"
in great linux distros?
we can not take a new source list from debian or ubuntu?

fredx181 · #19 Post by **fredx181** » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 17:27

Hi zagreb, I tried to answer here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 63#1002963
(don't want to go further off-topic in this thread)

Fred

mikeslr · #20 Post by **mikeslr** » Mon 27 Aug 2018, 13:20

Mistfire just released a new version of X-Slacko-Slim, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 33#1003033. The announcement brought it to my attention. Sorry I didn't think of X-Slacko Slim before. To quote Joe E. Brown in "Some Like it Hot", nobody's perfect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUfPTeE0DM

mikesLr

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum