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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
BionicPup32 (UPupBB) (20 October 2019)
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 1928
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed 05 Sep 2018, 14:50    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:

Since upupbb is running entirely in RAM, shouldn't I be able to edit menu.lst, then remaster? I don't know where to put puppy acpi=off in menu.lst. Actually, I don't even know where menu.lst is.


I think you should mount the iso file and change only the file isolinux.cfg to show:

Code:
default puppy
display boot.msg
prompt 1
timeout 50

F1 boot.msg
F2 help.msg
F3 help2.msg

label puppy
kernel vmlinuz
append initrd=initrd.gz acpi=off pmedia=cd


Then rebuild the iso file. Full remaster not required. Editing the isolinux.cfg file in your current DVD can work.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13361
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 05 Sep 2018, 19:18    Post subject:  

Thanks watchdog. Used to be, clicking on an .iso in Rox would mount the .iso. Clicking on the upupbb .iso does open a window that shows all the files in the .iso, but when I edit the isolinux.cfg file with geany, then try to save it, it won't save. What am I doing wrong?

I opened isomaster from a console, but that program is not exactly intuitive. For me, anyway.

If I burn the edited isolinux.cfg file to the upupbb DVD (as a new session,) do you think the boot process will use the new isolinux.cfg file instead of the original one? The way multisession Puppy used to combine sessions seems to suggest that it might.
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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 1928
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed 05 Sep 2018, 23:22    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Thanks watchdog. Used to be, clicking on an .iso in Rox would mount the .iso. Clicking on the upupbb .iso does open a window that shows all the files in the .iso, but when I edit the isolinux.cfg file with geany, then try to save it, it won't save. What am I doing wrong?

I opened isomaster from a console, but that program is not exactly intuitive. For me, anyway.


From a live session put the content of the iso file with the edited isolinux.cfg in a /mnt/sda1/DVD dir (for example). Then try in a console:

Code:
mkisofs -D -R -o /mnt/sda1/new.iso -b isolinux.bin -c boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table /mnt/sda1/DVD


Then use the new.iso.

Quote:
If I burn the edited isolinux.cfg file to the upupbb DVD (as a new session,) do you think the boot process will use the new isolinux.cfg file instead of the original one? The way multisession Puppy used to combine sessions seems to suggest that it might.


Just try it.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13361
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 05 Sep 2018, 23:52    Post subject:  

Okay, I burned the edited isolinux.cfg file to the upupbb DVD (with Pburn) and when I mount the DVD the modified file is the one that shows in Rox. We'll see if it's the one the computer uses when it boots up. Probably in a day or two.
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3611

PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 05:14    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I opened isomaster from a console, but that program is not exactly intuitive. For me, anyway.

Once you've created a liveCD (DVD) its good practice IMO to also write the iso used to create that DVD disc also to that DVD (using pburn write it as you would any other file, but ensure if/when it prompts you to write as iso or single-file you select the single-file option).

With the iso on DVD, open isomaster (in a livecd booted gui desktop i.e. gui version of isomaster) and File/Open and select the /mnt/sr0/xxxx.iso ... (or wherever you dvd mounts) file. After isomaster has opened that iso file, in the bottom window of iso master all of the files contained within that iso will be listed/show, scroll up/down that list and single click the one you're interested in to highlight it, isolinux.cfg in this case, and once that's highlighted use the right click mouse menu on the highlighted filename and select the Edit option. That will open the file in your text editor, so edit the file as desired (for instance adding the acpi=off command to the relevant kernel append line), save the edited file (File/Save), and then back in the isomaster window use isomaster File, SaveAs option to save the iso. You can't save back to dvd so save it to /root/xxxx.iso (or wherever). That will take a little while as the new iso is saved and the OK button of the save becomes active once it has finished saving the new iso image. Click OK and close isomaster. Assuming you're using a DVD-RW disc to use the same DVD-RW disc that you booted from again, under Fatdog I use peasydisc to blank dvd, format dvd and then dvd-multisession burn that /root/xxxx.iso .... and after having burnt it I click the desktop Save Session so that it writes a single save file to that newly burnt DVD containing all my Fatdog edits/changes. I also have a copy of the xxxx.iso stored on hdd disk, and after burning/saving a 'new' dvd disc, I save the xxx.iso to that hdd disk as well as using pburn to write it as a single file to the newly burnt dvd disc (I also save a copy of the first save file from the dvd disc to that hdd location - so if the dvd disc ever failed I have a copy of the iso and savefile that I can use to burn another disc.

In my case I don't have a local HDD, only the DVD, my 'hdd' is a remote mounted (reverse sshfs) folder, where that server hunts down my fatdog dvd boot and connects/reverse mounts one of the servers folders allocated to fatdog (fatdog can't ssh to that server, even if its on the same LAN). I'm using a old single core celeron PC as that server (running OpenBSD).

_________________
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) :wq
Fatdog multi-session usb

echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3467
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 19:03    Post subject: BionicPup as the current Official Puppy?  

BarryK wrote:
Hi guys, I just checked on Distrowatch, the last official Puppy was December 5, 2017, XenialPup 7.5.

Is BionicPup shaping up to be the next one?


Hi All,

I've been thinking about that. The objection seems to be that, as yet, there isn't a 64-bit Upupbb. And while I would hope that someone who knows what (s)he's doing will publish one soon, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to advertise that peebee has published an up-to-date operating system designed to run on 32-bit computers placing emphasis on how little computer resources (RAM and CPU) are needed for satisfactory every-day-use.

My impression is that it is light on its resource demands. But I have fairly new/powerful computers. What's the oldest, least powered computer you know it runs well on?

mikesLr
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13361
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2018, 21:05    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Okay, I burned the edited isolinux.cfg file to the upupbb DVD (with Pburn) and when I mount the DVD the modified file is the one that shows in Rox. We'll see if it's the one the computer uses when it boots up. Probably in a day or two.

Well, that didn't work. I still had to enter puppy acpi=off at the boot screen. Sad

I had added the edited isolinux.cfg file to a upupbb 18.05+12 DVD, but I was running from upupbb 18.05+1 DVD. I didn't think that would make any difference.

I was delighted to discover that upupbb will save to the DVD and become a multisession DVD. Very Happy

While the computer was down, I switched out 16 GB of RAM for the 4 GB that I had. Upupbb sees pretty much all of the new RAM. The only reason I can see to go to a 64-bit version of upupbb is to run programs that only come in 64-bit versions.
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1394
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sat 08 Sep 2018, 12:43    Post subject: Re: BionicPup as the current Official Puppy?  

mikeslr wrote:
BarryK wrote:
Hi guys, I just checked on Distrowatch, the last official Puppy was December 5, 2017, XenialPup 7.5.

Is BionicPup shaping up to be the next one?


perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to advertise that peebee has published an up-to-date operating system designed to run on 32-bit computers placing emphasis on how little computer resources (RAM and CPU) are needed for satisfactory every-day-use.


Not releasing this LTS OS when ready puts puppy further behind the power curve than it already is. In my opinion that makes no sense.

There being no 64-bit version (yet) should make little difference if a LTS 32-bit build is ready for release, its not like the 32-bit build is
unsuitable for a 64-bit computer. After all, a 32-bit build will run just fine on a 64-bit system, maybe even faster than a 64-bit build.
Ubuntu does have 32-bit libraries available. Most of the current puppy packages are 32-bit.

.
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sszindian


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 799
Location: Pennsylvania U.S.

PostPosted: Sat 08 Sep 2018, 13:19    Post subject: UPup Bionic Beaver (upupbb) 18.05  

As I recall... Over the past years, many pup's were released that had no 64bit counter-pups, including many of BK's!

Since this pup will also run (and very fast I might add) on a 64bit computer and it's doubtful a 64bit would perform any better, I say...

YES... RELEASE UPup Bionic Beaver (upupbb) 18.05 before it's already to late for any to enjoy it... and... it is one beautiful puppy!!!!

'Thank You peebee!'

>>>---Indian------>

_________________
Cloud Computing For Every Puppy (a .pet)
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69192
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Moat


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 967
Location: Mid-mitten

PostPosted: Sat 08 Sep 2018, 15:05    Post subject: Re: UPup Bionic Beaver (upupbb) 18.05  

sszindian wrote:
YES... RELEASE UPup Bionic Beaver (upupbb) 18.05 before it's already to late for any to enjoy it... and... it is one beautiful puppy!!!!

'Thank You peebee!'


+1!! Seems ready to me - and even if it has a few as-yet-undiscovered minor bugs remaining... what OS doesn't??

Bob
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3467
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 08 Sep 2018, 16:27    Post subject: upupbb as new Puppy Standard-bearer  

Hi All,

When I was first looking to replace XP and trying different OSes to find one which performed well on my computers, I would always look at Release Notes for two bits of information: Minimum System Requirements; Recommended System Requirements. The first would detail the lowest amount of RAM and the least powerful CPU required for computer usage you could tolerate if you had to; the second the amount of RAM and character of CPU required for a pleasant computer experience.

If the computer I was thinking of trying an OS on lacked even the resources for tolerable performance I wouldn't bother testing. If that information wasn't readily available, I'd employ the adage: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

Change may be 'the spice of life' but on a day-to-day basis people expect 'meat and potatoes'. Before undertaking so drastic a change as how your computer operates, most people want to know five things: (1) that the work they have to do to effect a change is minimal; and (2) easily undone; (3) that they won't have to do it often; (4) that they will be better off making the change than not, and (5) is this change likely to be better for me than some other change.

Linux Users are almost entirely made up of 'escapees' from Windows using "after-market" operating systems on computers on which Windows no longer provides tolerable performance.

We may know how good upupbb is; how much better the "Puppy Concept" of how an operating system should run is than the Windows/Linux norm. But why should a potential Windows escapee spend time trying upupbb rather than any of the hundreds of after-market-Linux operating systems available?

How do you cut through the noise? I suggest you do that by accurately providing information in an announcement --such as that Puppies run in RAM resulting in fast operations-- and including both the minimum and recommended system requirements.

So, I'll ask again: What are upupbb's minimum and recommended RAM and CPU requirements?

My least powerful computer has 4 Gb of RAM and a dual-core processor. If anyone has run upupbb on a computer with fewer resources, how would you characterize its performance on that computer?
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a_salty_dogg


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Sat 08 Sep 2018, 16:51    Post subject:  

Wonderful smooth, fast, Puppy which does all I ask of it without issue (except for running any of my VLC .sfs's, but that I can live without), even got to like that initially annoying little circle by the cursor which indicates when you're hovering over a link!
Also it's probably the best looking Puppy OOTB since the now ancient Lighthouse 503 with all its bells and whistles (shallow, moi? Embarassed).
So thank you peebee!

However a couple of annoyances:

I normally leave a number of external drives permanently plugged into my machine's USB ports expecting them to load in a specific order, currently:
sdb, 16 GB USB flash drive, one Fat32 partition, one swap partition.
sdc, 1 TB external powered hard drive, 4 NTFS partitions.
sdd, 32 GB USB flash drive, single Fat32 partition
Puppy itself currently boots from and saves to a directory on sda internal drive.

These have always loaded in the desired order on every Puppy I've ever used, going right back to the 2.14 and 4.00 days, and on multiple machines.
This is necessary, of course, to retain links like ROX-Filer bookmarks, default download & Transmission part-file locations, etc.

Now in UPupBB, I'm finding they always load in a different order, in the above example configuration, USB flash drives first as sdb, sdc, and external hard drive as sdd.
Have tried physically removing them after loading and replacing in my "correct" order, which fixes the order they appear in the file structure for the rest of the session but on reboot they revert back to the "wrong order".

Hope I've made my problem clear?
Can anyone help with explaining a possible reason why this is happening and only on this Puppy, and if I can fix it please?


The second problem (bug?) is far less important:
The keyboard shortcut to pause/resume Pmusic is normally "Alt+SpaceBar". Here what that does is to display the right-click menu which pops up when you click on the very top of any program window's border strip, to minimize the window or to move the program to a different workspace etc.
Can't locate any options to change keyboard shortcuts in the GUI preferences, so is there maybe a config file somewhere which I could edit?

Thanks in advance.
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1394
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2018, 21:13    Post subject: Re: upupbb as new Puppy Standard-bearer  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi All,


So, I'll ask again: What are upupbb's minimum and recommended RAM and CPU requirements?

My least powerful computer has 4 Gb of RAM and a dual-core processor. If anyone has run upupbb on a computer with fewer resources, how would you characterize its performance on that computer?


Posting this from slowest puppy-capable system I have
-----------------------------------------------------
Running UpupBB on a Dell Inspiron 1.8GHz single core from 2005
1024MB RAM (1 GB)
Running fine, using half the RAM as a RAM Disk, other half for cache
Runs good on 1.8GHz and 1GigaByte of RAM
At least on this computer
Booting from USB2 takes a little over a minute
system-info.jpg
 Description   Still have 700+ MB to play with on initial boot
 Filesize   52.59 KB
 Viewed   535 Time(s)

system-info.jpg

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3467
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep 2018, 13:14    Post subject: And on a reasonably powerful computer  

Hi perdido,

Thanks for the report. Now that the 2nd hard-drive on which all my 32-bit OSes are located [avoids confusion when trying to load SFSes and External applications] is again functioning, I can provide some information as to why on this reasonably powerful computer opening applications seems almost instantaneous.

Pertinent details from PupSysInfo:
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2120 CPU @ 3.30GHz
Max Speed: 4000 MHz
Current Speed of Core 0:3299 MHz, 1:3300 MHz, 2:3299 MHz, 3:3299 MHz
Core Count: 2
Thread Count: 4

meltdown : Vulnerable
spectre_v1 : Mitigation : __user pointer sanitization
spectre_v2 : Mitigation : Full generic retpoline

This is version 18.05+6 using 4.9.96-lxpup-32-pae (i686) so may not be the newest.

Memory Allocation:
Total RAM: 7973 MB
Used RAM: 1266 MB
Free RAM: 6707 MB
Buffers: 137 MB
Cached: 986 MB
Total Swap: 0 MB
Free Swap: 0 MB

Actual Used RAM: 143 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 7830 MB Free + (buffers + cached)

IIRC, I flinched the kernel from lxpup because I knew that even running a 32-bit system it would still recognize the 7973 MBs of RAM present. Despite their designations as pae, not all such kernels do.

With SWIron 63 SFS open and being used to post this, PupSysInfo shows memory usage as:

Actual Used RAM: 306 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 7667 MB Free + (buffers + cached)

mikesLr
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5543
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep 2018, 14:14    Post subject:  

Just a tidbit of information for y'all.

For anyone who might be trying to get the Openshot video editor installed in Bionic, and is having nothing but problems with the 2-series Qt5 version in the PPM, battleshooter's slightly older SFS package of 1.4.2 will install, and fire-up, without a murmur of protest.

I have nowt but praise for the amount of careful attention to detail battleshooter put into this package. Originally assembled for Carolina (as were many of his packages), it's running, with minimal 'tweaking', in many of my 5-series Pups.

I can't recommend it highly enough, and - to be perfectly honest - there's precious little the newer versions can do that this one can't. I installed it over the weekend (just on the off-chance), expecting 'problems'.....and was very pleasantly surprised when there weren't any.

You can find 'openshot-1.4.2.sfs' here:-

https://archive.org/download/RussoodlessPuppyLinuxStuff-battleshooter/openshot-1.4.2.sfs


Mike. Wink

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Last edited by Mike Walsh on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 09:04; edited 2 times in total
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