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How do I get Pulse Audio to work in BionicPup64?
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DustyPixel

Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu 08 Nov 2018, 13:42    Post subject:  

Hello Will -

You wrote:

'The reason you are getting ambient pickup noise when trying to record from Mixer (i.e. from what you hear coming through the speakers whilst recording) is that you also have microphone recording activated in Retrovol (which you shouldn't).'

Yeah, I know this from setting up Pulse Volume control for SSR in Xenial.
If I understood correctly, Mike W. mentioned that using mic boost for this isn't normally done but that it seems to work in Tahr. I probably turned on the mic somewhere in the process. Embarassed My fault, not his.

'But DustyPixel... it might be plughw:0,1 or plughw:1,0 or plughw:1,1 or hw:0,1 or hw:1,0 or hw:1,1.

That's why I gave you the command:

arecord --list-devices

to try; hoping that would guide you to what you sound card hardware actually is. It won't work if you don't use the exact correct card,subdevice number.'

I did use the command, as mentioned in my last post, and it looked like the only options were plughw: or hw:0,0 for either card which I know isn't correct. For example, the USB card is hw:2,0. I was tired at that point and wasn't paying proper attention to the numbers. Looking at it again today, I can see what I did wrong so I'll try again.

Mike Walsh -

Thanks for the suggestion about alsamixer - I'll give that a try.
And no worries about the microphone - hey, at least technically it DID record sound, just a little too much for my purposes Smile
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DustyPixel

Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov 2018, 01:12    Post subject:  

Deleted
Last edited by DustyPixel on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 02:07; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2018, 01:04    Post subject:  

DustyPixel wrote:

On my computer I noticed the Alsa Line Capture setting behaves differently when the cable is used. If I don't use it, the VU meter only goes up to 10% and stays there, regardless of whether any sound is on. All microphone settings including mic boost are turned off. The resulting recordings are barely audible, no matter where I set the input volume.


I'm not sure if I quite understand what you mean above. For recording without cable from 'sound card' you shouldn't be using input source of Line Capture; rather you should be using 'Stereo Mix' (or whatever that Mixer input source is named by your computer).

When using a cable from headphone to physical line input instead, then, yes, you would use input source Alsa 'Line' Capture (Line means physical/cable input). Not using a cable should be better quality though, since using line/physical input there can be introduced noise since the headphone output is driven through additional amplifiers (analog amplifiers, so after electronic digital-to-analog conversion - DAC, which itself produced extra noise, losses, and distortions, the amount of such depending how good the electronic DAC is). Admittedly, these extra amplifiers may not be particularly 'noisy', though you could still get unwanted 'noise' via electromagnetic signal pickup on the cable itself - though, yes, the cables are physically shielded to minimize that additional noise source - still, Stereo Mix input source should be even more noise free and just as 'loud' recording capability usually - though may indeed depend on amplifier effects on your particular soundcard.

EDIT:

By the way... For absolute best quality, when recording media being streamed from the Internet (e.g. Internet Radio streaming, or Youtube videos/audio), you wouldn't use the likes of wex or Precord at all. Such streams are streamed in 'perfect' digital-encoded form and should be left in that form for later playback: i.e. Download Youtube videos using some browser plugin (doesn't go through soundcard digital-to-audio or digital-to-video conversion electronics at all, so no noise introduced). Similarly, you could use the likes of the program "streamripper" to record the undecoded digital media as it is being streamed. I believe the media player VLC can also 'rip' streams directly when supplied with the Internet URL of the media stream (though may need a specially compiled VLC to include that capability).

No matter how you download the digitally encoded media, you could later use, say ffmpeg (or for convenience some GUI software based on that, such as fredx181's Video-to-Audio-convert program), to remove any video track digitally (not via soundcard at all) and possibly transcode the audio from whatever digital form it was originally in (e.g. aac audio) into some other (e.g. mp3 or ogg). Of course, digital transcoding from say aac to mp3 can introduce some losses and/or distortions (especially of high frequency components). Nevertheless, for quick recordings of already playing media (audio or audio/video), weX can yield pretty good results recording analog audio/video via Stereo Mix input source, and is often more convenient to use.

wiak
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DustyPixel

Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2018, 02:05    Post subject:  

Hello Will -

You wrote:

'I'm not sure if I quite understand what you mean above. For recording without cable from 'sound card' you shouldn't be using input source of Line Capture'

'When using a cable from headphone to physical line input instead, then, yes, you would use input source Alsa 'Line' Capture (Line means physical/cable input).'

Embarassed
Back in the day when I made mix tapes/CDs from my music collection on one of those component stereo systems with a receiver, cassette player, turntable, CD player, etc. I had to do it via line recording with RCA cables....SMH Rolling Eyes I was so enthused to finally be getting a positive result I posted in haste and wasn't thinking about why it was working.
I've been working with Tahrpup 6.0.6 over the last several days. I changed to it from 6.0.5 in hopes of better results. I was experimenting with the external USB sound card I use since I prefer it over the computers sound card.
In an earlier post, you mentioned additional configuration may be needed. I was looking at some websites that deal with Alsa configuration and sound card compatibility, and I realized a small but important detail I overlooked.
My USB sound card is not indicated to be compatible with Linux. The CD included with it provides software for Windows computers only.
I was aware of this when I decided to get it about 3 years ago. I was still using Windows at the time but had developed an interest in Linux from using Puppy. I read through the reviews on Amazon and saw that some people had success using it in Linux, including Ubuntu. After receiving it, I installed it on Windows but had to depend on the existing software in Puppy to use it there which has worked out fine. Puppy recognizes it, and it works with the Retrovol/Alsa mixers. (Or it seems to)
I now use Linux in place of Windows and because the USB card has worked so well I had forgotten that there's no 'official' Linux software installed for it. It's been difficult finding anything online about how to possibly configure it to work better in Alsa/Puppy for recordings. I now wonder if perhaps there aren't some compatibility issues with the built in sound card as well, considering that this computer originally came with Windows already factory installed.
Basically, in Puppy with weX without a cable, I'm getting the same results with both the computers built in sound card and the external USB sound card - good video, faint audio. I use the cable, I get good video and clear audio. I noticed one thing, though - if I make a screen recording with the built in sound card and the cable, it does record the audio, but when playing the recorded video I have to switch to the USB card in order to hear it.
If I try to record videos with the computers built in sound card, I test different Retrovol settings and am able to get the VU meter to react to sound, but it's as if there's still some undetectable background noise going on. If I stop the video the VU meter doesn't go back to 0%. It drops back to a certain point and stays there. If I tap the top of my Laptop or clap my hands, the VU meter reacts. It also happens when the video is playing. The microphone and mic boost are turned off, and I don't use a headset with microphone with my computer, only earbuds, so I'm baffled as to what is still picking up outside sound. Maybe the microphone isn't really off?
When I attempt to record videos with the USB sound card it's the same thing.
As mentioned earlier, Pulse Audio in Xenial works with the sound cards in screen recordings, it's the Puppy/Alsa combination that has been problematic.
The built in sound card is:
Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset High Definition Audio [8086:3b56] (rev 05)
USB card is:
Startech 7.1 USB External Sound Card with SPDIF Digital Audio. (note - I don't use the SPDIF ports on this card, just the standard USB port/cable)
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2018, 03:25    Post subject:  

I can't really help you with possible card driver issues, but for the Intel card I came across an ancient post that may be entirly not relevant.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=134812

It suggested trying an /etc/.asoundrc config file containing the following:

EDIT: Sorry, it is /root/.asoundrc for user root or can use /etc/asound.conf

Code:
pcm.!default {
    type plug
    slave.pcm "swmixer"
    #card Intel
    #device 0
}

pcm.swmixer {
    type dmix
    ipc_key 1234
    slave {
        pcm "hw:0,0"
        period_time 0
        period_size 1024
        buffer_size 4096
        rate 44100
    }
}

ctl.swmixer {
    type hw
    card 0
}


As I said, though, above may be totally irrelevant nowadays. As far as you still 'hearing' sound (when tapping laptop) that suggests you haven't actually disabled your Mic. Remember there is both a 'Playback' Mic control and a 'record' Mic control. If using Line or Stereo Mix you should have both Mic controls turned off. Also, if your soundcard has record control called 'Digital' (my laptop does), turn that right up too. Like I said, trouble is different soundcards have different Retrovol/Alsamixer controls available. I'm no expert on souncards themselves alas - most just work... some don't without various ~/.asoundrc details...

Not much help, I know.

EDIT; Here is something more recent, though again I don't know if relevant to your situation:

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1068040-start-0.html

and also:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/394850/sound-card-and-audio-device-driver-on-debian-stretch

Also, I once had soundcard trouble where volume icon would not appear - it was something to do with wrong soundcard type selected (HDMI? I can't remember). The following post reminds me of it though - I did something similar for that issue (which you may not have anyway):

https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=35579

Possible solutions were in next thread:

https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=35579&start=10

But... you might need to read all of the following...

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture

As above will show you, there is a LOT to all of this when your sound card unluckily/rarely doesn't work with defaults...

wiak
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4544
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2018, 07:26    Post subject:  

@ DustyPixel:-

As far as your sound card goes, does it say on the packaging that it's compatible with any USB Audio Sound class enabled system? Because if so, Linux has supported that feature for a long time. Drivers should not be needed, since the USB Audio Sound Class has been supported by a kernel module for quite some time...

Under Linux, it's literally 'Plug'n'Play'.


Mike. Wink

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DustyPixel

Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 00:40    Post subject:  

Hello Will -

Thank you for the links.

I'm still having trouble with the 'invisible microphone' issue in Alsa screen recordings, both in Bionicpup64 and Tahrpup. I do make sure the microphones and mic boost are off and that PCM capture is on. When I asked 'Maybe the microphone isn't really off?' I meant is there a possibility that something is overriding the mixer settings? I have also tried changing the default mixer in Default Applications but it didn't help. Perhaps something in the Alsamixer files needs to be changed, but I'm not sure what.

Recently I saw this article about creating a virtual loopback device in Alsa:
----------------------------------------------------
I found SimpleScreenRecorder. Although it is listing ALSA devices in the interface, they didn’t work. All of them. Of course, this program has been written with Pulseaudio in mind, too…

But I was lucky, because ALSA has a loopback interface. This is basically a virtual sound card. It creates two devices, Loopback 1 and Loopback 2. I can throw everything I want into one side and it comes out at the other.

The virtual devices can be created with this command:

modprobe snd_aloop pcm_substreams=1

So I took my original .asoundrc as a base and put this code at the bottom:

pcm.loopsnoop {
type dsnoop
ipc_key 321456 # any unique value
hint { show on
description "(Loopback-Aufnahme)"
}
slave {
pcm "hw:3,1,0" #Loopback.2
channels 2
#rate 48000
}
}

pcm.split {
type plug
slave {
pcm {
type multi
slaves {
a { channels 2 pcm "upmix" } #sound card (default/hw:x,x)
b { channels 2 pcm "hw:3,0,0" } #Loopback.1
}
bindings {
0 { slave a channel 0 } # Left
1 { slave a channel 1 } # Right
2 { slave b channel 0 } # left
3 { slave b channel 1 } # right
}
}
#rate 48000
}
ttable [
[ 1 0 1 0 ] # left
[ 0 1 0 1 ] # right
]
}

After that, I changed the segment pcm.softvol in a way, that every audio is routed through the split device by default:

pcm.softvol {
type softvol
slave {
pcm "split"
}

Done! Now the SimpleScreenRecorder has a new device in the list, called ” (Loopback-Aufnahme)”. Using this, I can record the audio of my games while playing them.

from:
https://lichtmetzger.de/en/2014/11/29/simplescreenrecorder-record-audio-with-alsa-only-no-pulseaudio-no-jack/
-------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know if this would possibly correct the problem, and if so, how would one adapt these instructions for Bionicpup64 or Tahrpup 6.0.6?

I did finally get Pulse Audio working in SSR in Tahrpup 6.0.6 and made screen recordings with sound. Still working on it in weX. I would still like to use weX in screen recordings over SSR because I like the video quality, and having all configuration settings on one screen is more user friendly.

As far as using Pulse Audio in Bionicpup64, I installed paprefs and pavucontrol, entered pulseaudio --start and got 'command not found'. I then removed the existing pulseaudio_11.1 and replaced it with pulseaudio-4.0-Tahr-i686.pet. Tried the start command again and got the error message:
pulseaudio: error when loading shared libraries: libltdl.so.7. wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64

Mike Walsh -

I don't know where the packaging is at the moment but from what you said then there's no real compatibility issue there. Just trying to cover all possibilities.

Last edited by DustyPixel on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 04:03; edited 4 times in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11553
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 12:34    Post subject:  

Quote:
pulseaudio-4.0-Tahr-i686.pet. Tried the start command again and got the error message:
pulseaudio: error when loading shared libraries: libltdl.so.7. wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64

That is a 32bit version of Pulseaudio.
You are installing to Bionicpup64 a 64bit OS.

It may work if you load the Bionicpup64 32bit compatibility SFS
Look in Quickpet>Useful

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The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer) http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 18:12    Post subject:  

Hi dustypixel

I'd try and avoid using 32bits comparability libs in 64bit systems nowadays since shouldn't be necessary. I'll make a point of seeing if I can find way to install 64bit pulse audio in Bionicpup and report back later.

Wex should work with Mike Walsh all in one 64bit dotpet from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1010119#1010119

once you have pulse audio working. Not sure how to get alsa recording alone going on your system.

Wiak
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DustyPixel

Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 00:58    Post subject:  

Hello bigpup/Will -

I went ahead and installed the 32-bit SFS in the Linux partition on my hard drive, installed pulse audio/pavucontrol/paprefs, restarted X, and typed ldconfig in terminal.

The start command for pulseaudio gave the error message:
W: [pulseaudio] main.c: This program is not intended to be run as root (unless -- system is specified)
E: [pulseaudio] main.c: Daemon startup failed
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4544
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 08:28    Post subject:  

@ DustyPixel:-

Could be because you've done things in the wrong order.

When you load the 32-bit_compat_libs SFS package, the very next thing you should do is to enter

Code:
ldconfig


.....into the terminal. You shouldn't even attempt to do anything else until that command's been run, and the 'prompt' has returned. You installed all that pulse stuff, then restarted 'X'.....and then decided to run the 'ldconfig' command.

Unfortunately, that means the pulse stuff was looking for dependencies which, at that point in time, hadn't yet been set up or sym-linked.....

Just thought you ought to know.


Mike. Wink

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 16:26    Post subject:  

Sorry, frisbee isn't working for me when I quickly installed BionicPup64 with a view to trying to install 64bit pulseaudio and I haven't had time to look into that so can't help with BionicPup64 pulseaudio at the moment. Personally, I'd concentrate on getting 64bit pulseaudio working on the 64bit system if I were you, rather than try a 32bit compatability mode workaround. On my XenialDog64 system, I do use pulseaudio and I believe the ubuntu package I installed was in fact called 'pulseaudio' (though it awas a long time ago so I may be wrong). I also installed pavucontrol. I would have thought package 'pulseaudio' would be available directly from BionicPup64 PPM (package manager)?

I also have a recollection that the command 'pulseaudio --start' (which is what I use in one of my startup scripts) came up with the notice about not running as root, but that pulseaudio daemon does indeed start up in the background okay on my Xenial system anyway. I can also check it is running with:

Code:
ps aux | grep 'pulseaudio'


and it is there ok. Best I can try at the moment is BionicDog64 (rather than the pup) and I'll let you know if official Ubuntu 64bit pulseaudio starts up on that (and if I needed or found any additional steps required for that to happen).

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 16:47    Post subject:  

Following on from my immediately above post:

I installed pulseaudio onto my BionicDog64 (not BionicPup64) system using

apt install pulseaudio

and entered command:

Code:
pulseaudio --start


and got warning message:

Code:
W: [pulseaudio] main.c: This program is not intended to be run as root (unless --system is specified).


However pulseaudio daemon nevertheless started up as shown by:

Code:
ps aux | grep 'pulseaudio'


giving ps output:

Code:
root      9259  0.1  0.5 350388 11036 ?        S<l  09:42   0:00 pulseaudio --start


I then installed weX and configured 'audiodevice' box to 'pulse' and weX recorded sound fine via pulse. It can also record sound to alsa fine on my laptop once I change 'audiodevice' to 'plughw:0,0'.

This at least shows that the 64bit pulseaudio package in Ubuntu Bionic64 repositories (the reported version is 11.1) should work if installed correctly. I didn't need pavucontrol for above test.

EDIT:

I also checked where pulseaudio gets stored on my system with:

Code:
find pulseaudio


which reports /usr/bin/pulseaudio

I also tried Pfind and search result revealed the same (simply used 'Personal files' for where to search). I suggest therefore you try finding where already installed BionicPup64 pulseaudio 11.1 64bit installed version is by using Pfind, since that should answer your issue about why command not being found (if not in executable PATH you may therefore need to make a symbolic link from /usr/bin to where it currently is stored).

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 17:56    Post subject:  

Follow up to above two posts:

I managed to install 64bit pulseaudio 11.1 in BionicPup64 (despite frisbee not working for me in BionicPup64) by downloading the deb file via BionicDog and then just clicking on that file in BionicPup64. Unfortunately, dustypixel, on running with 'pulseaudio --start' on that Pup I get same or similar error message you get with 32bit compatibility etc:

Code:
root# pulseaudio --start
W: [pulseaudio] main.c: This program is not intended to be run as root (unless --system is specified).
E: [pulseaudio] main.c: Daemon startup failed.
root# ps aux | grep 'pulseaudio'
root     10486  0.0  0.1  13072  2524 pts/0    S+   09:03   0:00 grep pulseaudio
root# pulseaudio --version
pulseaudio 11.1


In BionicDog64, on the other hand, I only get the W: warning message but pulseaudio daemon still started okay on that OS (note that I've seen others reporting the E: message too though, so not sure what the issue was or if they weren't actually using the Dog system).

The solution would seem to be to run pulseaudio as a normal user rather than root (e.g. spot) but I have no idea how to get that to work without permission errors. Perhaps someone else knows how to do that? I certainly don't know why it works in the Dogs not the Pups with pulseaudio --start.

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 23 Nov 2018, 20:06    Post subject:  

DustyPixel wrote:

I did finally get Pulse Audio working in SSR in Tahrpup 6.0.6 and made screen recordings with sound. Still working on it in weX. I would still like to use weX in screen recordings over SSR because I like the video quality, and having all configuration settings on one screen is more user friendly.


[EDIT] I thought I had this working (I'm sure I did). But since writing the following something has gone wrong and though pulseaudio daemon is starting I can't now get sound working with it in BionicPup64. I may have missed something on re-trying the following steps, or maybe added something wrong that I didn't have before. I seemed to manage to record okay from weX with pulse audio mode running, but playback with pulse didn't seem to work: had to killall pulseaudio before playback. Still working on this. [b]Deadbeef seemed to also have some issues (doesn't clean up on itself when clicking window decoration X) so I'm trying playback with inbuilt mpv. Let me know if following works for you...[/b]

Pulseaudio is much maligned on this forum, but I think your getting sound recording to work on your machine in Tahrpup is a case of "pulseaudio to the rescue". Reason being that pulseaudio has very sophisticaled audio hardware detection routines...

So your problem becomes: how to get pulseaudio working in BionicPup64. I think I may have the solution (on my BionicPup64 setup at least) though first I have to remove my savefolder to try it all out again since I did so many things and only want to list the essentials.

What I think you need to do, prior to my finally testing this, is:

1. install pulseaudio program from PPM (current version displayed there is pulseaudio_11.1; BionicPup64 PPM seems to claim it is already installed, but it wasn't)
2. edit the file /etc/pulse/default.pa and look for the lines:
Code:
.ifexists module-console-kit.so
load-module module-console-kit
.endif

and comment each of these lines out (i.e. put a hash in front of each of these lines and re-save the default.pa file). Of course if you actually wanted pulseaudio to use module-console-kit, then that becomes a different problem; the alternative to above may be to correctly install console-kit - I haven't tried that yet.
3. EDIT: changed my mind. dbus already on system so doesn't need installed it seems.

The above two steps may be all that is required to now start pulseaudio with command:
Code:
pulseaudio --start

Ignore the W: (warning message about starting pulseaudio as root, that message does not prevent it starting). Main thing is that there is hopefully now no E: (Error) message about module-console-kit.

One thing I have to double-check is whether you also need to install dbus from PPM. I did that in my attempts, hence my going to check again with pristine (no savefolder) BionicPup64. (EDIT: yes, now checked: see step 3 above)

By the way, to see how powerful pulseaudio is in terms of detecting hardware, simply enter the command:
Code:
pulseaudio -vvv

in a terminal. You can browse through the outputs of that command and see and the hardware pulseaudio detects. Indeed you may be able to use that information to determine how to get audio working using the likes of hw: or plughw: with Alsa alone and not later need pulseaudio at all if you so wish. The command lspci, by the way, is also useful to see your hardware. Personally I'm rather impressed with pulseaudio and do have it as part of my system config.

As far as using wex with pulse, simply enter its main config window and change the "audiodevice" entry to pulse (rather than plughw:0,0 or whatever). This assumes you have correctly installed wex 0.8.18 (scrox and giblib1) and applied the weX audio_in.plug fix for BionicDog64 use discussed in the following thread post providing (working) Mike Walsh wex all-in-one for BionicPup64 dotpet:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1009799#1009799

Note that the ffmpeg version provided by default in BionicPup64 works fine with weX. You just need to install giblib1 from PPM to get weX all going as far as I recall. (and maybe pupRadio if the weX config window isn't opening up by default - that's just a simple workaround; there are alternatives to installing pupRadio...). Note also that first time round you may need to run weX twice so that it automatically updates its config file in $HOME (e.g. if you get DATEfile unbound variable error on running weX first time).

wiak

EDIT: Please find a workaround to BionicPup64 pulseaudio issue in my next post immediately below. Not ideal in my opinion - needs a better fix in BionicPup64 distribution itself EDIT2: No isn't working I think - just disconnects connection to pulseaudio altogether...:

Last edited by wiak on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 00:51; edited 3 times in total
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