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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Suggestions for a Puppy for my ancient PC
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silverojo


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2018, 02:36    Post subject: Re: Need more info  

mikeslr wrote:

But, in any case, we will need to know more info about the 'nuts and bolts' of silverojo's computer.

If PupSysInfo won't run on 2.0, would Xproc give you the info you need?

_________________
MY PC's SPECS:

* PC: Firelite 1200 D
* RAM: 512 MB
* CPU: AMD Duron, 892 MHz
* HD: Maxtor 2F030J0
* CD-RW: Atapi CD-R/RW CW078D
* MONITOR: Compaq 5500
* SOUND CARD: SiS 7018 Wave
* ETHERNET: Network Everywhere (NC100 v2)
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silverojo


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2018, 02:38    Post subject:  

tallboy wrote:
silverojo, which Puppy do you currently use?

Puppy 2.0 or Puppy 5.10

_________________
MY PC's SPECS:

* PC: Firelite 1200 D
* RAM: 512 MB
* CPU: AMD Duron, 892 MHz
* HD: Maxtor 2F030J0
* CD-RW: Atapi CD-R/RW CW078D
* MONITOR: Compaq 5500
* SOUND CARD: SiS 7018 Wave
* ETHERNET: Network Everywhere (NC100 v2)
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2711

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:49    Post subject:  

Consider perhaps giving a alternative a try. OpenBSD for instance might run on that and if you run just console with tmux and mc (file editor and text editor), create a tput style menu system ...etc. then it can look/feel OK. Then add alpine for email, calcurse for diary/calendar, irssi for IRC, cmus for music player ... etc. lynx/wm3/dillo even for web browsing.

I've modified my control key in tmux from ctrl-b to backtick (where if I press backtick it actually prints a backtick ... i.e. for script execute type character entry). F11 for new tmux window, F12 to step between windows (as that sits will mc using F1 to F10) ... and of course with tmux you can split a window into panes (I've set mine to backtick | or backtick - for vertical/horizontal splits). If someone else logs into the same userid remotely via ssh then they can also attach to the same tmux session and you can collaborate. There are IM type terminal versions that apparently work well (I don't use them myself), news readers/RSS feeds ..etc.

First image is a actual picture of the console as I can't snap that via software. Second is a version running under X ... that I can snap via software.

Fundamentally on even a much more powerful setup than yours I spend relatively little time in X, primarily just use it to run the latest browser and flip to that whenever needed (I run X as 'user' and a restricted one at that, no su, sudo (doas), no cron, no access to any setuid's ..etc) and the browser (chromium) also runs in a jailed like environment (by default chromium is now 'pledged' and when run with --enable-unveil is also 'unveiled' i.e. highly restricted in what disk/memory it can access).

Sound in OpenBSD is fantastic. cmus works very well with that IMO.

And if it can't manage a later gui browser but can fire up X then perhaps run a browser via ssh and X (browser) forwarding from another box. I however relegated my oldest box to be just a data server (vault) that reverse sshfs mounts a folder onto my desktop system whenever/wherever that appears online.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3322
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2018, 14:20    Post subject:  

Cheeky!! On a Puppy forum???
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2838
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2018, 16:13    Post subject:  

Burn_IT wrote:
Cheeky!! On a Puppy forum???


Not really. The slogan "Keep Windows, run Puppy" has long been kicking around. People seek advice on this Forum because they expect each of us will try our best regardless of our self-interest.

There are those who think 'The DebianDogs' don't have a place here. On occasion, I've recommended one when I didn't think any Puppy could accomplish a Poster's objectives as well.

rufwoof has discovered a system he believes should be better known. His posts, recently, at first glace appear to be fixated by that idea. But he is the same rufwoof whose posts were always helpful. And, one of his recent posts provided details about setting up an operating system --IIRC sort of using Puppy as an 'underdog'-- which combined the strengths of OpenBSD with those of Puppy.

Like the 'DebianDogs' Tazpup is not 'really a Puppy' if creation via Woof is a criteria. But once out of Beta/Testing, it may prove to be 'the best' Puppy for resource-limited computers, combining the strength of Slitaz (low resource needs, and a 'rolling release') with those of Puppy (ease of preserving changes via SaveFiles and other uses of SFSes).

In its present state of development my only concern about recommending Tazpup to silverojo is whether it currently has the drivers and firmware needed by his computer. If he has the time to spare, trying it may certainly prove worthwhile. Which is not to say that rufwoof's suggestion might not be better: only that as silverojo is already familiar with Puppies, the learning curve would be less.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2838
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 14:31    Post subject: Command-line regarding SSE2 support ?  

silverojo wrote:
The main reason I need a newer Puppy is that I can't upgrade my browsers to access sites like USPS.com or PayPal.com. Otherwise, my old Puppy works just fine for my needs.


It doesn't make sense to 'upgrade' his operating system if it can not provide such access.

Unless I'm mistaken --and do correct me if I'm wrong-- in order to access such websites it is now necessary that the operating system support SSE2 encryption -- which is only possible if the computer, itself, will support that.

I suggested installation of PupSysInfo as a 'newbie-friendly' means to determine if silverojo's computer provided that support. Apparently, PupSysInfo can't be installed into either of the two Puppies the computer can run.

Does anyone know of a command-line argument to determine whether a computer can support SSE2?
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1061
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 16:32    Post subject: Re: Command-line regarding SSE2 support ?  

mikeslr wrote:
silverojo wrote:
The main reason I need a newer Puppy is that I can't upgrade my browsers to access sites like USPS.com or PayPal.com. Otherwise, my old Puppy works just fine for my needs.


It doesn't make sense to 'upgrade' his operating system if it can not provide such access.

Unless I'm mistaken --and do correct me if I'm wrong-- in order to access such websites it is now necessary that the operating system support SSE2 encryption -- which is only possible if the computer, itself, will support that.

I suggested installation of PupSysInfo as a 'newbie-friendly' means to determine if silverojo's computer provided that support. Apparently, PupSysInfo can't be installed into either of the two Puppies the computer can run.

Does anyone know of a command-line argument to determine whether a computer can support SSE2?


According to here
https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/93455-what-is-the-sse2-instruction-set-how-can-i-check-to-see-if-my-processor-supports-it

In terminal run
Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo


It will be listed under flags if supported
(quite a long list that may extend past the edge of the window requiring a full screen terminal window to view)

.

.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2838
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 16:53    Post subject:  

Hi perdido,

Thanks for the command-line code. Although on my system, using lxterminal, the long display was line-wrapped and the info concerning SSE2 could easily be found, if it is needed this modification to the command will produce a text file at root rather than an onscreen report.

In terminal run
Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo >info.txt

One can then open geany/text-editor to /root, open info.txt, and geany's search tool can quickly find any reference to sse2 or its absence. Alternatively, while still in terminal, this will open the file in geany:

Code:
geany /root/info.txt
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 776
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 16:56    Post subject: Re: Command-line regarding SSE2 support ?  

perdido wrote:
mikeslr (in part) wrote:
-- in order to access such websites it is now necessary that the operating system support SSE2 encryption -- which is only possible if the computer, itself, will support that.

I suggested installation of PupSysInfo

Quote:
According to here
https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/93455-what-is-the-sse2-instruction-set-how-can-i-check-to-see-if-my-processor-supports-it

In terminal run
Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo

It will be listed under flags if supported.
Oh, thank you, mikeslr and perdido. This adds to my meager knowledge.
_________________
Dell E6410: Xenial, Bionicpup64, etc
Dell Mini 9, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P, PowerBook G4
Intel D865GBF, Intel DQ35JOE

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2711

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 16:58    Post subject: Re: Command-line regarding SSE2 support ?  

mikeslr wrote:
silverojo wrote:
The main reason I need a newer Puppy is that I can't upgrade my browsers to access sites like USPS.com or PayPal.com. Otherwise, my old Puppy works just fine for my needs.

It doesn't make sense to 'upgrade' his operating system if it can not provide such access.

That's why my thoughts were to continue to use a low spec cli + basic X type (older OS version) system such as silverojo's ... and from that ssh into another more capable/recent box/device and X forward the display back to the low spec system.

If I could get anywhere near half decent ssh + X forwarding from my android phone I'd be tempted to just use that for www purposes from my desktop (as things stand, sshfs mounting and connections are OK, but input/control etc. are lacking).

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2838
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 21:02    Post subject:  

Hi rufwoof,

Your last post clarified the objective of your first, especially you specific mention of an android phone as the "box" in the context "then perhaps run a browser via ssh and X (browser) forwarding from another box" of your first post.

As my mind tends to wander looking for connections to something I'm more familiar with, even if only a little, the term "tethering" popped up along with the alternative of USB-cable rather than [or as a means to] 'via ssh and X (browser)' being a phrase above my pay-grade.

The Puppy having the lowest demands on RAM in which successful tethering was mentioned is X-Precise 2.4, albeit while connection via tether was successful the network tray icon didn't indicate that. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=776540#776540.

silverojo mentioned he had used Slacko 5.5, and still uses Puppy 5.10. I don't know whether that refers to Lucid 5.10 or Wary 5.10. X-Precise 2.4 was published about the same time as Slacko 5.5 and Lucid 5.10. So if by "Puppy 5.10" silverojo means Lucid 5.10, there's a good chance that it won't be much harder on his computer than what he currently has. It's also possible that tethering might work with his current Puppy, although there are no reports about that.

Of course, tethering would only be required to access the "problem" sites he mentioned; and, perhaps the need to acquire an android phone and, in particular, one capable of accessing his "problem" sites. That might translate to costing more than the acquisition of a different computer.

For a start on the subject of tethering, see: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=998888#998888.

But truthfully, I know almost nothing about tethering.
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2711

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2018, 21:44    Post subject:  

Tethering as I understand it Mike is using the phones internet connection for your laptop/desktop to access the internet, different to running a app on the phone from your desktop/laptop.

I connect mine either wirelessly or via usb. More often just sshfs mounting it so that it shows as a normal folder on the desktop system. With additional/alternative software however, which I know very little about myself as I've personally not found a 'appropriate' app/method, my hope would be that you could drive the phone from the desktop and have the display forwarded back to the desktop ... i.e. run the phones internet browser controlling it from the (low spec) desktop PC, seeing what's going on also on the desktop PC's display. Which is basically X forwarding. That would use the phones internet data allowance for accessing those sites that couldn't otherwise be accessed/viewed on the low spec PC, but where for other web sites they might be directly accessed from the desktop, using its internet connection (avoiding using the phones data allowances).

Something like vnc where the desktop (vnc client) is used to control the phone (vnc server), using the phones apps/internet to visit the web sites that otherwise cannot be accessed/used on the the desktop system. https://youtu.be/HSDEwasD_Vc

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2698
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 03:20    Post subject:  

I would go with Wary/Racy Puppy and an updated newer Palemoon browser like those provided by forum member watchdog.
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1306

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 04:07    Post subject: Re: Which old Puppy?  

silverojo wrote:
mikeslr wrote:

Just wondered which 'old Puppy' you were using. Mike Walsh's concern that if your Duran doesn't have SSE2 instructions you'd have to use Walter Dnes' version of Palemoon also means you may be working to obtain results no better (and perhaps worse) than you already have. That version of Palemoon can be used, IIRC, even with Puppy 4.2x.

In fact, it might be best if you tell us how you are currently trying to access sites like USPS.com or PayPal.com.

Sorry for my late reply. I just started a new job, so I'm trying not to use their computer for personal issues. Wink

As I mentioned in a reply to someone else, I mostly use v. 2.0, though I've used 5.10 in the past. I was using 5.5 Slacko, but it slowed my PC to a crawl.

mikeslr wrote:
In order to figure out what your computer is a capable of, you might want to run PupSysInfo. If you don't already have it, you can obtain it here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=579411#579411. AFAIK, it should run under any Puppy. Start it from Menu>System. Once its opened, click Mainboard on the Top Menu, then CPU. Scroll down to flags and see which, if any sse are listed.

I'll give that a shot. Thanks for the link. I'll post the results here as soon as I have time to install and run it.


Have you tried a Puppy 4 Variant like Anitaos. It supports palemoon 27.9.1

The latest Anitaos iso has be updated as recently as last year.

Last edited by s243a on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 13:11; edited 1 time in total
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2838
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 12:21    Post subject: Paypal & USPS via Tethered Smartphone  

Hi All,

I haven't exhaustively explored this, but there are both Paypal and USPS apps for Android. According to Paypal its app will run under the galaxy Tab2 which was manufactured in 2012. The USPS App requires at least Android 4.1, which was published the same year. I would, therefore, expect that both will run under any Android version published since then.

Unlocked, Wifi-enabled, Manufacturer-Refurbished Smartphones can be found on ebay for about $35. [Unlocked = accept sim card for making phone calls from any carrier*; Wifi-enabled = will access you're home Wifi, or any other; Manufacture-Refurbished = good chance it was done right the 2nd time Smile ].

* Most of the world uses a GSM system. In the US, Verizon and Sprint use CDMA. The two systems are not compatible and require different hardware. Unlocked means its not tied to a specific carrier. But a phone having the hardware only for CDMA can't access GSM networks, and vice-versa.
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