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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Browsers and Internet
I want to learn about Opera compared with Mozilla
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slackfan

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 04:39    Post subject:  I want to learn about Opera compared with Mozilla  

In old Puppy's, Opera was sometimes the standard build in browser as it was really light weight with about the same functionalities as the real main standard browser of Puppy over the years, Mozilla.

There are a lot of threads concerning Opera at this forum subdivision.

Too much!

Also the wiki page of Puppy's wiki is relatively poor in informations:

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Opera .

As I did recently read that Opera is able to download and save web pages in an other format as HTML. That other format is not needing to save the pictures in an external directory (as it is the case for HTML documents). It can save web pages completely inclusive picture like in a text doc. It is an important figure for some jobs (one of those: produce a global document of one of your email managed as HTML; for ex. you did include a drawing or photo etc. The save function of my email provider supply me only the text part!).

I never did try Opera. I will (probably) do it now.

But, I am ignoring all from Opera and know only Mozilla Seamonkey suite. There are a lot of manuals in the google search but you will probably only learn the most important differences with your accostumed browser!

The word "suite" is important!

Mozilla, as suite (= Seamonkey today), offers:

- a package service for Linux in completely easy *.tar.bz2 archiv (actually ab. 49 MB at https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/ )
- only the binding in the Puppy menu can eventually be tricky
- it is possible to decompress (Xarchiver from Puppy does it about automatic after hitting on the package at /root/download) the seamonkey-xxx.tar.bz2 absolutely where you want (/opt, or /usr/lib, or /root, or /mnt/sdaX and start it with a link)
- mozilla uses only
-- one subdir /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins (esp. for libflashplayer.so or a link to it; easily copy libflashplayer.so in it and no problem any more with flash!!!)
-- one subdir ~/.mozilla, an hidden subdir in, in Puppy, /root, where ALL files used by mozilla are to find in
-- over that, as soon you did use once flashplayer, it manages his parameter in 2 secondary hidden dir's, ~/.adobe and ~/.macromedia

If you know that and copy all the contents of the 5 subdir's (.../seamonkey, /usr/lib/mozilla, ~/mozilla, and, if flashplugin really used, ~/.adobe and ~/.macromedia), of course for the good processor (!!!), you can always restore your system from Puppy version to Puppy version! Following the same way (links in your remastered Puppy), you can use 1 (ONE) unique version of Mozilla in all your Puppy's and eventually a full install of your choice!

Mozilla SUITE (Seamonkey), it is important, not Firefox, pfuiiiiii! offers a lot of functions

- tab browser with dictionary and spell check in the build in editor funtion of webpages
- web page WYSYG editor
- IRC communication
- email client and management

Which is the situation in Opera?

Last edited by slackfan on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 13:21; edited 2 times in total
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14414
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 05:36    Post subject:  

Hello Slackfan.

The old Opera (stopping at version 12.16) was indeed a suite, although
not as complete as the Mozilla SeaMonkey suite. It had a browser, an e-
mail, a page-code inspector and a torrent manager. (IIRC)

The new Opera (versions 25 to the present) is completely different. It is
based on the Chromium engine. It can have some of the Chromium plug-
ins. Maybe there are some plug-ins in the huge list that will do what you
want if you incorporate them.

My suggestion would be: dive in, install it and try it! If you don't like it,
remove it after your tests: no harm done; this is a serious program, it
doesn't fool around with your computer.

There is no such thing as hands-on experience, IMO. Nobody can decide
in your place.

IHTH.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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slackfan

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 09:31    Post subject:  

Hi Musher0

Thank you very much! I did install Opera now in my full install (Ubuntu 16.04) as it is proposed in the depository. But I don't like it, I see.

a/ it is not a suite, as you did warn me
b/ I would not know how to install one unique version for all my frugal installations using the same hidden dir('s, if it needs more as one)
c/ I don't like the fast selection's window at all as I would need to much of those idiotic big icons
d/ I have no experience in Puppy with it (installation, what is to save in Pupplets only tested, also without save file / dir)...

Only the ability to save all a webpage with pictures included in the same unique file is really interesting for me!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3416
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 10:22    Post subject:  

Hi slackfan,

"b/ I would not know how to install one unique version for all my frugal installations using the same hidden dir('s, if it needs more as one)"

One instance of opera can be made available for many Puppies in the following manner:

1. Do not install Opera. Rather, download it and decompress it using UExtract. A folder named Opera (perhaps with versions specifications) will be created. Rename it to just Opera. Move it to /mnt/home.

2. You can start it by browsing to /mnt/home/opera/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu*/opera/opera and left-clicking that binary.
[* The name of this folder will be different if you're using the 32-bit version).


3. To create a menu listing, browse to /usr/share/applications and open the desktop file of any web-browser in a text editor (e.g. geany). Immediately save it under the name opera.desktop. Now edit that file as appropriate. The Exec line should read:

Exec=/mnt/home/opera/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu*/opera/opera.

4. Copy opera.desktop to /mnt/home/opera for use with subsequent Puppies.

5. Start opera. It will create a setting folder /root/.config/opera. Note the "."dot- click rox's eye to show this hidden files.

6. Left-PRESS hold and drag this folder into /mnt/home/opera. Select Move. Drag it back to /root/.config and select link(relative). Recommend you place it in a folder (perhaps named config-without the "."dot) so it's easy to find).

In future Puppies, all you'd have to do is (a) copy the opera.desktop in /usr/share/applications; and (b) after starting opera, delete the /root/.config/opera folder and create a symlink there to the config file on /mnt/home.

You can do that with any "chrome-clone". But unless you start with specifically built for Puppies, you may run into the 'running as root' problem.

I still use opera-12.16 to access websites whose graphic content isn't 'too complex' --such as this Forum.

mikesLr
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slackfan

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 13:23    Post subject:  

Thank you very much mikeslr!

Two other question, completely different:

Is Seamonkey also

the

l a s t

Internet-Suite available and up to date?

And

what is the second internet page format

that Opera can manage and use to save and not Mozilla?
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sickpig


Joined: 31 Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2019, 19:11    Post subject:  Opera additional user profile  

Hi mikeslr,

Reading your instructions I am thinking that it would be possible to run another instance of opera in addition to an existing one.

I know this is an old thread and I can start another one if thats the way to go.

Using your instructions below and renaming the opera bin to opera64.bin, would I be able to run another instance of opera. Like a different profile, wherein I can use a separate username to sync bookmarks and such?

What I would like to achieve is to get another instance of opera running which syncs its settings etc to a different opera user account. Like chrome, which has support for different user profiles out of the box.

I am not sure if opera would still use a single folder under root to save its files. I would not want to corrupt my current opera installation. Hence the question and hesitation to try your remedy. Thought its best to get guidance before proceeding. I am too happy with my current puppy setup to experiment and disturb it Smile

Thank you

mikeslr wrote:
Hi slackfan,

"b/ I would not know how to install one unique version for all my frugal installations using the same hidden dir('s, if it needs more as one)"

One instance of opera can be made available for many Puppies in the following manner:

1. Do not install Opera. Rather, download it and decompress it using UExtract. A folder named Opera (perhaps with versions specifications) will be created. Rename it to just Opera. Move it to /mnt/home.

2. You can start it by browsing to /mnt/home/opera/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu*/opera/opera and left-clicking that binary.
[* The name of this folder will be different if you're using the 32-bit version).


3. To create a menu listing, browse to /usr/share/applications and open the desktop file of any web-browser in a text editor (e.g. geany). Immediately save it under the name opera.desktop. Now edit that file as appropriate. The Exec line should read:

Exec=/mnt/home/opera/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu*/opera/opera.

4. Copy opera.desktop to /mnt/home/opera for use with subsequent Puppies.

5. Start opera. It will create a setting folder /root/.config/opera. Note the "."dot- click rox's eye to show this hidden files.

6. Left-PRESS hold and drag this folder into /mnt/home/opera. Select Move. Drag it back to /root/.config and select link(relative). Recommend you place it in a folder (perhaps named config-without the "."dot) so it's easy to find).

In future Puppies, all you'd have to do is (a) copy the opera.desktop in /usr/share/applications; and (b) after starting opera, delete the /root/.config/opera folder and create a symlink there to the config file on /mnt/home.

You can do that with any "chrome-clone". But unless you start with specifically built for Puppies, you may run into the 'running as root' problem.

I still use opera-12.16 to access websites whose graphic content isn't 'too complex' --such as this Forum.

mikesLr
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a_salty_dogg


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2019, 20:46    Post subject: Re: Opera additional user profile  

sickpig wrote:
I would not want to corrupt my current opera installation.


@sickpig

You can, and should, make copies of your save file/folder at regular intervals, and especially before making any major changes to your system, including installing any new programs or fettling them for testing purposes.

Just right-click your save file/folder and, from the menu which appears, select "copy" (I normally append the date the copy was made for future identification, e.g. "tahrsave_6.06.2fs_BACKUP_030119", also to avoid it being searched and recognised as a valid alternative savefile during boot) then move the copied file to a secure place on a different drive.

Please note that most of the "old dogs" in here, who know a great deal more than me about these things, will recommend performing the above action while you're running Puppy in RAM or running a different Puppy so that the save file you're copying is not "live".

Then if anything goes awry during your experimentation, it's a matter of moments to restore your entire OS to the state it was in prior to any changes by simply restarting in RAM, renaming and replacing the now "distressed" savefile with your backup copy, and then restarting again, choosing not to create a new savefile when offered.
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sickpig


Joined: 31 Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2019, 04:20    Post subject:  

Thanks a_salty_dogg, appreciate you highlighting what you did.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3416
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2019, 12:52    Post subject: Re-discovering PupsaveHotBackup  

Hi sickpig,

I just re-discovered pupsavehotbackup. Works well with 32-bit OSes. Haven't tried under 64-bit. But I think its just bash so should be OK. per musher0's advice, later in the thread, I'v used Asri's PupsaveHotBackup-1.4_20140515.pet from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=777927#777927. Musher0 suggests after installing the pet that its desktop at /usr/share/applications be edited and provides such edit to be cut & pasted: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1002980#1002980. See that post as well for advice in using with recent Puppies.

The old opera (thru 12.16 which I still use) is contained (including profiles, addons and bookmarks) in its own directly. So it remains easy to run multiple versions. Just give each directory a unique name, e.g. opera, opera1, opera_my, whatever. Then link to each via a uniquely named menu-pet, or drag each executable to the desktop and use different icons. Or just browse and click the executable you want.

Current operas are Google-Chrome Clones. They must be run as Spot. Google-Chrome & clones are ALL started via a bash 'wrapper'. I've seen different ways of constructing these applications: some fully located in either /root/Spot or /Home/spot [not /mnt/home, but a distinct Top-level folder named Home] and some with the application files in /opt or somewhere in /usr. ALL confine Upload and Download to the /Spot folder which does not have root/administrative permissions. I'm not sure, I think most (all?) place profiles in a .config somewhere within /Spot; but it is possible some place profiles in /root/.config.

At any rate, if it is possible to run multiple versions of the new operas, it would --at a minimum-- be necessary to edit the bash-wrapper used by the 2nd and following versions. A project well above my pay-grade.
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sickpig


Joined: 31 Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2019, 17:26    Post subject:  

Thank you mikeslr for your help and advice.

I am thinking easier option would be to just run a beta version of opera. Beta will run in its own instance. That will allow me to sync bookmarks using a different sync id. I was thinking of doing this to sync my work opera. I would not have much use for work opera from home though. Just a provision. You never know when you might have to log in, you know.

Your mention of opera 12 just reminded me of the good ol days when opera was still using its own engine. Such a great browser it was. The current one is great too but I feel the earlier one was a bit faster.
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labbe5

Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Posts: 2018
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2019, 08:14    Post subject:  

Opera is proprietary and owned by a chinese consortium.

By any means, you should not use it, as well as Chrome. You give away your data.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3077
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2019, 09:48    Post subject:  

Seamonkey is still going strong and good. It's normally released about six months after the latest firefox release. I've always found it quite stable. I recently downloaded the latest version for both Linux and Windows and currently using it with Tahr and Windows XP. Very easy to use the linux version. I've downloaded the tarball from the Seamonkey site, extracted the contents and made an SFS. Working nicely. BTW - I've found it to be better than Palemoon, I had some issues with the latter.

I still use the old Opera 12 (without flash) every now and then for specific tasks, eg. downloading some videos from sites that have embedded videos. Very useful for a site like ok.ru
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sickpig


Joined: 31 Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Fri 11 Jan 2019, 18:26    Post subject:  

labbe5 wrote:
Opera is proprietary and owned by a chinese consortium.

By any means, you should not use it, as well as Chrome. You give away your data.


i love opera's aesthetics and features, been a loyal user since ever
i know most of the browsers are chrome clones anyway and now even edge is going to be based on chromium

also am not apprehensive about them having my data - i mean its no big deal. let them have at it. if it helps them save the world then be it Smile

on windows a few years back i loved the speed of k-meleon based on gecko i believe. such a fast browser it was. but its not releasing new versions afaik. i saw a couple of posts from its creator?(not sure) here

firefox and its derivatives i feel are slow as molasses. just a matter of perception, they might be faster than opera possibly but i dont know, mayb because i am so used to opera i think they are slow.
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