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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Conceptual debate: It's Puppy as small as it should?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1304
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug 2005, 14:57    Post subject:  

I would like Sirexel to confirm him/her self that they do not want Standard Puppy to change and really want an additional Puppy. I would be able to accept his comments more easily then.

So far, Sirexel has contributed to 3 threads, that I have seen, and started contentious arguments in all three. He has had polite, and less polite, valid responses to his arguments but still he continues trying to stir things up. Does Sirexel actually USE Puppy or is he here just to set arguments off.

It may be the fact that Sirexel's first language is not English but how Sirexel's comments read to me is that Puppy does not fit Sirexel's mission statement, so it must be changed. In my opinion, such action from a newcomer, as I am also, is disrespectful of the Puppy community.

The guys in that community have done a FABULOUS job in getting the litter of Puppies together.

By all means lets add to the litter but, Sirexel, stop being critical of the basic genetics of Puppy and stop appearing as if you want to kill off our favourite companions.

Better still - stop pleading ignorance of how to do things. Instead of trying to stir things up, sit back, read the threads. Respect these people, make constructive comments, ask questions, learn and experiment. Maybe you can create, or at least encourage the birth of, an additional puppy to the litter that meets your mission statement.

Anyone can criticise. It's the ones who put something back into the community that gain respect.

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Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 05:28    Post subject:  

From old greece it's known to question all is the best way to the true.

In more plain terms questioning about Puppy is not to destroy it. It is to learn and understand why it is as it is and in the meantime agood feedback to good listeners.

Anyway it seems some more focus it's needed in this point.
I don't like to personalize. This wants to be a conceptual debate so please take this as an example:

I have an old pretty mini laptop:
Thosiba Libretto 110 CT P233MMX, 7.1” Active Matrix, 64MB (updated), 6Gb HDD(updated), WinMe(updated from 9Cool, with no CD and just a PCMCIA Floppy that only boots with DOS.

I wondered (still wondering) wich would be the best Puppy install on it, and I searched the web and the wiky pages about that. I found some scattered info on 64 mb machines, even one Libretto 50 32 Mb machine.

Then I started to think: What if Puppy were lighter?
And then: Are really those redunctant programs needed?
Then I thougth: I think I only would need 20% of puppy programs. I'm a quite 'professional' user so the same Puppy for me would fit a lot of people.
A thiner easier Puppy.
I asked people around me.
In the forum: First impressions...
In the real life: Yes they will be glad. They just want things well done. No problem with the OS or super-cool efects. But they don't want to learn another OS.
Ok. I had an idea. Ask in the Forum to check---> EasyPuppy thread.
Ok then, now a thiner Puppy. Is that possible? logical? --> this thread.

Thats all.
I'm confortable debating ideas, but I don't like to debate my motivations.
No conspiracy as you can see and I think it is a good feedback for newbies and regular.
This is the last time I defend myself. Ideas not persons.

Ok. And now the intresting point of all this post:

Thinking on letting Puppy on their minimal skeleton a doubt cames to me:

(That is not about Puppy but to distros in general. Just learning Linux). A distro is a customized linux kernel plus applications, isn't it.

Would be a Puppy skeleton different from other linux minimal distros?

If not then if you want a minimal linux it would be more logical to start with another really minimal Puppy and then faten it to the point you like.

If yes it would interesting to listen the inner differences between Puppy and others. Really interesting.

Thx in advance.
And thanks to all answers. A read them all but I just have time to answer in one message.
Sirexel Smile
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Official Crustacean

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15238
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 06:11    Post subject:  

Barry says:

"One thing to understand is that Puppy is unique. I built Puppy from scratch, file by file, so the architecture is not based on any other distro"

more info here:

Those of us who use Puppy, know one thing: It grows and yet stays frisky. It works. Take Rox. Fast? I should say. Comprehensive? I should cocoa. Fun? Ay Chihuahua! My challange to Puppys is very simple - you know a better OS? Tell me I will start using it . . .

I used XP because it was fun and Iiked it a lot. When the Mac becomes available on any PC I may frisk there . . . but by that time who knows . . .

I have Ubuntu on my HD and Puppy permenantly in my CD player.

I have heard rumours that Vista (Longhorny) will run Linux and probably deliberately crash it.
I no longer trust MS - I learnt how to use Windows and they changed it beyond recognition to their benefit not mine. Too many suits. Now they want to lease it and spy on me - to innunduate me with MS Spam or otherwise interfere and . . . basically enough . . . I want something fast and simple and fun

I call it Puppy. Woof woof

YinYana AI Buddhism

Last edited by Lobster on Wed 17 Aug 2005, 10:47; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan F

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 10:43    Post subject:  

This is all very educational, and I've taken a lot of good information from it. Yes, Puppy can be many things to many people. Personally to me it is well ahead of it's time. Many of the core principles of how it accomplishes it's goals could be applied to other operating systems and provide great benefits.

I love the idea of rescuing old computers, but to me the exciting thing is how well Puppy can run my NEW hardware. My computer runs at 2.2ghz with 512mb of ram, so much of this doesn't apply to my situation. However, there is a very noticeable speed difference between Puppy and just about anything else. The only two that come close are DSL and Austrumi, and frankly neither one comes with anywhere near as many useful applications. Applications in Puppy are available instantly and respond just as quickly, whereas with another OS they must be loaded from the hard disk. Also, I can start from scratch with a new pup001 file and have a fully configured system in around an hour, with everything just how I want it. It can take hours to install just one application with other linux distros by the time you get all of the dependencies sorted out. Puppy actually comes with more useful day to day applications than many of the large mainstream distros. I used it as is for about a month before I even used pupget, as it did have nearly everything that I needed for daily use.

A console Puppy would be fantastic. A Puppy running a gui on a 32mb computer is also fantastic. Also really cool would be a full server running totally in ram. One could use the ideas that Barry has put into use in Puppy and create an Operating system that does the same trick of running totally in ram but without neccesarily using cut down or lightweight applications, making the ultimate system for newer hardware too. Actually, Puppy is already pretty close to being the ultimate for newer hardware anyway. I believe Puppy to be vital to the future of computing. It just remains for the rest of the world to notice it and apply the ideas.
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Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1304
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 14:26    Post subject:  

Thanks for the response Sirexel.

It helps to personalise and explain motivation sometimes.

It seems to me, but I'm no expert, that you can have what you want. Why not start thinking about which applications you want in your Puppy.

I must admit that a list of apps tied in with DoopDoop's screen here:
would be really good. We would all have different ideas what the apps would be though.

I, personally, would want the full list of apps under the menus but I can see you would not want that.

With your list of apps, call for volunteers with the knowledge to remaster. The new puppy could be born and tried out.

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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 14:39    Post subject: To quote myself  

You can make your own personalized puppy as small as you want!
You can make your own personalized puppy as big as you want!

So to figure out why this is a topic, I ask myself do they not read the forum
for it's scattered answers??? Or the wiki for it's easy navigation page index???

The topic should be is the wiki a better solution for a wiki/forum???

And to start anew, I will discuss at length on why the move would be better

To take the wiki and make it a multi-platform forum/wiki.
By: Yours Truly!!

First we begin with the page index, the reality lies in the page index,
for there no one could say well, I can't find the post so that's why I started a new one. On the contrary if this were to be a mistake and or a lie
moderators of the wiki/forum could easily help the poor pup and direct him/her to the post that does have the answer. With this being said the moderator could then go back and delete the poor pup's mistaken post.

Second. Are you saying that a new page go up for every topic?
Well, of course that's what I'm saying! In it being this way
everybody allowed would be able to erase unneeded post to the topic as to keep it uncluttered, of course this would be a weekly clean-up.
What I'm saying is a page a post, anyone could easily browse the page index, and say hey that looks like the post I'm looking for!
They would enter that page and read what it has been written down
This pup would say hey great my answer to my problem!!! And write nothing down! scenario 2 The pup would write down how he/she got a certain problem solved! scenario 3 the pup would just write a simple thank you.

Now moving a long, If the pup decides he/she got the answer
nothing would be done to this page!
But if the pup had a different solution to the problem
then that post would stay up.
And lastly if the pup wrote a simple thanks or a question.
The thank you would and could be simply erased on the weekly wiki/forum clean-up. Or if the pup had a question regarding the answer on the post
it would then be a topic until solved and the new answer would be updated and all other post to the topic would be erased.

Now that I have explained this it seems feasible, yes?

But on a different note, the pup would of course not have to register or could register just as one would on the forum.

Heaven is on the way, until then let's get the truth out!
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Bruce B

Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11488
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 15:51    Post subject:  

Sirexel, I picked your post in the other section. Didn't have time to reply. Just wanted to let you know I plan to work with you on this.

Through hands on experience and actual real world results, we will get the correct data and conclusions on these machines.

I'll probably reply in detail in several hours when I have time to use.

BTW - Often the forum says I'm browsing the forum, when I'm actually sleeping or playing or on occasion actually working.

I just leave my computer and if it's connected to the forum than it says I'm logged it. I probably am. This is no indication that I'm actually at the computer.

IMO - as far as Linux distros are concerned, I think Puppy more than any other I've encountered, can be what you want it to be for your particular personal computing purposes and needs.
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