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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
18.05 - strange user behavior after hd install
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3525
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 06:46    Post subject:  

They could put a big flashing warning and the explanation in the install scripts.
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6502coder


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 637
Location: Western United States

PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 15:07    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
I'm sure 6502coder was thinking of SFSes...
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, Mike, but no...what I was trying to claim was that one can't blithely install and uninstall PETs on a full install. I thought I had read somewhere that, if you uninstalled a PET that, say, updated a system library, the original library would not be reinstalled--that it simply got overwritten when the PET was installed, and was gone.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3277
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 15:56    Post subject:  

Hi 6502coder,

That's my understanding as well. Under Frugals, the actual operating system exists in RAM, with pointers in RAM to where in Storage the file (and associated files) are located. On a pristine boot, those pointers are to the files which were contained in the ISO and were written to the Storage Medium. When a User installs a pet (deb or other package) it is written to the SaveFile/Folder. SaveFiles/Folders have priority and will overwrite any pointers to the files of a pristine Frugal. Conflicting files remain, but aren't put to use. When you uninstall such pet, you also uninstall the pointers to it, leaving the original pointers to the files in Storage. [Only a Remaster would delete those files]. So, with a Frugal Install, uninstalling a pet returns your system to its condition before such pet's installation.

Under a Full install, however, there is no SaveFile/Folder, no division between RAM and Storage. Installation of a pet overwrites any conflicting files in Storage. Uninstalling that pet removes all its files breaking any application which depended on them.

Puppy was and remains an operating system designed to run as a Frugal install. I concur with your post in the Suggestions Section. The hack --my characterization-- named 'Full Install' developed to enable it to boot and run slightly quicker when computers were sold with 256 Mbs of RAM or less and were unlikely to have more than 512 Mbs of RAM has outlived its excuse for being.
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1327

PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 16:09    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi 6502coder,

That's my understanding as well. Under Frugals, the actual operating system exists in RAM, with pointers in RAM to where in Storage the file (and associated files) are located. On a pristine boot, those pointers are to the files which were contained in the ISO and were written to the Storage Medium. When a User installs a pet (deb or other package) it is written to the SaveFile/Folder. SaveFiles/Folders have priority and will overwrite any pointers to the files of a pristine Frugal. Conflicting files remain, but aren't put to use. When you uninstall such pet, you also uninstall the pointers to it, leaving the original pointers to the files in Storage. [Only a Remaster would delete those files]. So, with a Frugal Install, uninstalling a pet returns your system to its condition before such pet's installation.

Under a Full install, however, there is no SaveFile/Folder, no division between RAM and Storage. Installation of a pet overwrites any conflicting files in Storage. Uninstalling that pet removes all its files breaking any application which depended on them.

Puppy was and remains an operating system designed to run as a Frugal install. I concur with your post in the Suggestions Section. The hack --my characterization-- named 'Full Install' developed to enable it to boot and run slightly quicker when computers were sold with 256 Mbs of RAM or less and were unlikely to have more than 512 Mbs of RAM has outlived its excuse for being.


I agree that it has outlived its usefulness for almost all new users.

That's why I suggest renaming it to "legacy install". That way it would still be available to those who have actually thought about it, but the name "legacy" would be both accurate and scare away all the newbies that don't want to read the instructions.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3277
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 21:36    Post subject: What to do about 'Full Install' Option  

Either solution would be preferable to the current situation. But either would require those working on Woof to pay attention to what those of us who have to deal with the aftermath that their work generate. Sad

And neither would solve the problem of (tens of) thousands of previously published ISOs floating around and the undated, inaccurate and/or antiquated advice by Linux reviewers who don't actually know Puppy Linux. Crying or Very sad
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