Puppy's big problem with woof and woof CE

[musher0]

"Oui",

You're a hopeless stubborn old mule. I told you before: josejp2424 is the author
of DPupBuster-7.9.0.2, not me.

I tried to build a DPupBuster-7.9.0.1 and never got the sound drivers going. So I'm
not going to publish it, obviously. Whether the recipe I was handed out is tainted or
not is another question entirely.

So... "josejp2424 is the author of DPupBuster-7.9.0.2, not musher0."
Repeat that sentence as necessary until it is imprinted in your brain.

~~~~~~~~~

Now, how about you start building your very own anorexic Puppy and present it to
the world when it's done?

Instead of making fun of very dedicated Puppy developers and annoying the general
Puppy public with your sterile "old soldier-type" comments.

Who's paying you to do this, by the way? M$? RedHat? Google?

Here's how it works: you attack our reputation, we attack yours. Got it? Tit for tat,
donnant-donnant. Until truth and peace and restored. IOW: enough is enough, oui.

Tah-dah.

[musher0]

What is in a puppy main sfs is what the developers decided to include/exclude. That main sfs can be remastered so users can revise what's in or out of the main sfs. The developers choice could be very lean - so users might have to install many things, very fat - so the user might not have to install anything else, or somewhere between.

Typically vmlinuz boots and init inside the initrd runs, which typically switch-roots to the main sfs. If however you replace switch-root with a chroot (and not umount things inside the inird) then from the desktop you can break out of the 'main system' back to a initrd's cli. From there you could umount the entire main system from memory and perhaps boot another entirely different main sfs. The only thing that matters is that the choice of main sfs's loaded match the choice of kernel (vmlinuz) booted.

Puppy's, without the kernel/modules and added programs (Libre etc.), tend to be very small. The core puppy utilities are lean, and mostly scripts. You can't really count libre office or whatever as being puppy, as they're just additional installed, or not, default choices that the developers made, that the user could add to or remove if they so chose (via remastering). Similarly the kernel/modules side is a choice, lean and less hardware supported, or fat and more all encompassing, or somewhere between.

But there isn't much to remove if you want to follow Barry's model of a very small distro that does pretty much anything with a gui app [without relying on applications in the cloud] and runs on almost all hardware.

While there is some duplication, like you said, with the exception of the browsers and office apps and maybe the video players, it is all very tiny apps and scripts.

There just isn't anything of substantial size to remove that doesn't produce a crippled version of puppy.

Just as a data point, if you take the 32 bit debian stretch 7.5 Puppy, uninstall Palemoon, Abiword, Gnumeric, and Deadbeef, install links2 and remaster with a zdrv you get a main sfs file that is 243 megabytes and a zdrv that is 31 megabytes.

If you then delete all the graphics drivers from /usr/lib/dri except the intel i915 driver and resquash with xz, you get a main sfs file that is 215 megabytes.

Take that and look at it with gdmap, what else could you get rid of and still have a useful distro? Cups and sane? The wireless drivers? All the video players?

It doesn't take woof. I suggest oui use the remaster process and produce a prototype of what he is talking about. It is supposed to be a doacracy after all.

+1.

[oui]

Who's paying you to do this, by the way? M$? RedHat? Google?

Those Mssrs are American as you , you understand why actually tensions happens between us?

It is a scandal that you come with those calumny!

I did only ask you why SliTaz with about the same browser in it, the same goodies, as far I know the actual LinuxFromScratch else if it supply not the most newer kernel making perhapts difficulies, is so tiny and new you did explain strong stripped version from Puppy so big!

no need to insult each other:

you can look an say

that
that
that
that

if you see more an technical grounds are transparently,

that ground
that ground
that ground
that ground

really easy

witjhout some calumny or insults!

poor man!

[s243a]

Who's paying you to do this, by the way? M$? RedHat? Google?

Those Mssrs are American as you , you understand why actually tensions happens between us?

It is a scandal that you come with those calumny!

I did only ask you why SliTaz with about the same browser in it, the same goodies, as far I know the actual LinuxFromScratch else if it supply not the most newer kernel making perhapts difficulies, is so tiny and new you did explain strong stripped version from Puppy so big!

n

The libraries in SliTaz are older then those of the newest puppy. I think that using older libraries is a good why to try to keep the iso size down. However, if one does so then they might have problems running newer software like internet browsers.

[oui]

The libraries in SliTaz are older then those of the newest puppy. I think that using older libraries is a good why to try to keep the iso size down. However, if one does so then they might have problems running newer software like internet browsers.

I am not SliTaz defensor but sometime user (as a full Linux installation as SliTaz has all proprieties of a normal Linux plus hints those like Puppy uses, and a lot more.

Aleksej, the (relatively) new developer of SliTaz (it is the one-man-developer staff of the distribution ) works a lot of time at the SlTaz NEW based on actual LinuxFromScratch. You can relatively often new ISO's at mirror.slitaz.org org

using the falculty of SliTaz to be installed directly from internet with each old SliTaz CD (or perhaps FD ; but right remember, the protocol did change from the very early FD and ISO's). If you know that you can always start the most newer SliTaz

and if you want to install fast and easily (for example in each dir of an other distro, for ex. in /var/SliTaz in Slackware / Debian / Ubuntu / probably also easyOS, you will never have problem with it and it happens in a few minutes following that page!

if you find package surprising you look at the both "SlitazFromScratch" books, the initial one from Christoph (the Swiss creator of that diistro with, since the first time, users friendlich management of languages and keyboards, and, the second since release 4.0, from Aleksej at the wiki...no need to unscramble the, hum, logic of some distro builder!

you want search more? go to slitaz.org/en and hit on the search icone.the searching page opens with 2 fields. the second field search in ALL SliTaz sites!

[musher0]

Who's paying you to do this, by the way? M$? RedHat? Google?

Those Mssrs are American as you , you understand why actually tensions happens between us?

It is a scandal that you come with those calumny!

I did only ask you why SliTaz with about the same browser in it, the same goodies, as far I know the actual LinuxFromScratch else if it supply not the most newer kernel making perhapts difficulies, is so tiny and new you did explain strong stripped version from Puppy so big!

no need to insult each other:

you can look an say

that
that
that
that

if you see more an technical grounds are transparently,

that ground
that ground
that ground
that ground

really easy

witjhout some calumny or insults!

poor man!

Hey.

You mistake me for an American, when I am Canadian. Similarly, you think that I am the
developer behind DPupBuster-7.9.0.2, when I am only a facilitator.

You suppose that our Puppy devs fatten the Pups on purpose, when they do not.

Dancytron, jamesbond and others have provided you with all the data you'll ever need
to understand this situation. But you do not want to, you doubt our sincerity. You
absolutely want your anorexic Puppy. Who's the poor guy now?

So here's the deal: you attack our reputation, and we attack yours. You attack us and
we pay you back in kind. Fair is fair. Do we have a deal?

Or you just shut up and humbly kneel before superior facts. Puppy is not SliTaz and
never was. Enough of your nonsense. You'll kill Puppy with it, if we let you loose.

So what's the name again? "Aleksje" from SliTaz is paying you to belittle Puppy? I see...
Finally the truth is coming out.

[wiak]

Moved my comment, since more about Midori in DPupBuster, to here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 76#1019576

wiak

[oui]

So here's the deal: you attack our reputation, and we attack yours. You attack us and
we pay you back in kind. Fair is fair. Do we have a deal?

poor man really! he is not American. he is Canadian! and where is Canada? In China, in Australia, in China?

YOU ...

attack the reputation of Puppy, because

YOU

find that you have the qualification of an developer because you feel yourself able to play with a distro builder with dramatic results:

in the last few hours where I did start this critic on Woof, WoofCE and to be fat, really the few hours

Puppy did loose a other rang at the ranging at distrowatch.com and is now not rang

33

any more

but

rang 34

and it is your fault because you are not able to discern that continue this way is a great error: the world user repulse violently the new products having only an unique advantage:

to make the creators shine

regardless of users' reactions and the negative effects for Puppy.

A good Puppy will never be an elephant because the user is awaiting with the name Puppy a smart distribution

(note: I did answer wiak behind his message here )

[linuxcbon]

Oui, please create a "lighter" puppy and show us how to do, instead of useless blablabla for pages.

[oui]

not needing!

look at this versjon of SliTaz:

http://mirror.slitaz.org/iso/rolling/sl ... -loram.iso

in that iso, aleksej did offer the Puppy guy's being not able to recognize what a distro needs

with gtkonly, justx, base and
non-live (needs the CD-ROM) alternatives (5x). Spare up to 30% of the RAM
size in live mode.

Russian dolls the initrd from SliTaz is splitted,inito 5 steps (it is somewhat like Slitaz from Scratch! but working in automatic!) ; we don't hat equivalent in Puppy, only WoofCE and it builds monsters!

[musher0]

Not Russian dolls. Ukrainian dolls. And Ukraine is in Upper Mongolia. Right next to the
Canada you found in Austria! You should definitely have paid more attention in geography
class in high school, oui!

linuxcbon, où t'as remisé la muselière de oui, encore ?
(Transl. : Where did you say you stored oui's muzzle? )

BFN.

[ITSMERSH]

Just to make a comparison:

Lucid
Abiword 2.8.6 = 5336 Bytes
libabiword = 6482 K

Bionic
Abiword 3.0.1 = 6272 Bytes
libabiword = 7868 K

Also I want to mention:

The term "old computer" is somewhat different in 2019 compared to 2008.

Sorry, but I don't think there's a need for new Puppies around 100 MB - except for some special guys.

Even though I had complained sometimes about woofCE and its developments, I think they did some great stuff in some parts - definitely.

E.g. I was easily able to add mdrv, ndrv and vdrv for a use in Bionic64 (edited the init script and sfs_load for that). I recall trying this already at times when I worked on my Lucid based LazY Puppy.

I had trouble, trouble and trouble - and then I just gave up.

In Bionic64 there was just a single attempt and it worked out of the box!

[musher0]

Don't waste your time, Rainer.
Oui has a teflon coating: no reasonable argument sticks.

[oui]

Sorry, but I don't think there's a need for new Puppies around 100 MB - except for some special guys.

I did use your (different) puplets until 2017..2018. daily

but it doesn' t work any more (HTLM5!)

better a 50 Mb distro with amd64 kernel as an heavy TOPLESS where no youtube!

you are really yourself a very special guy if you feel different

world users did also refuse all your creations... it is a little reason why Puppy were at rang 9 as BK did give it in the hands of some from him known developpers and it is now at rang 34 although a lot of people (perhaps better why a lot of people ) build elephantic (sometimes dynausoristic) versions

der Zweck heiligt die Mittel but the goal can certainly not be to loose so much audience! it would be nonsens ...

[dancytron]

The distro watch ranking is meaningless. It is just a count on the number of hits on the Puppy distrowatch page.

If you care about the rating, then you should promote the Puppy distrowatch page on the search engines (like the some of the other distros do).

Anyway, I'm done. You are just a concern troll.

[musher0]

"The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on." (Proverb in many languages)

[s243a]

The distro watch ranking is meaningless. It is just a count on the number of hits on the Puppy distrowatch page.

If you care about the rating, then you should promote the Puppy distrowatch page on the search engines (like the some of the other distros do).

Anyway, I'm done. You are just a concern troll.

We should also note that there is much more competition now for small live distributions these days. That said, amoungst the smaller-lightweight distributions puppy ranks near the top. AntiX and MX linux are examples of two lighter weight versions of linux that are taking votes away from puppy.

[perdido]

There are people in this forum that undermine real progress in puppy any way they can while seeking attention by riding on the backs of others.

Until that is addressed puppy will continue to decline in popularity.

.

[mistfire]

Hello

I just want to share my opinion.

Here are some factors that makes the puppy bloat.

1. Web Browser
2. Multimedia Player
3. Office suites
4. DRI files
5. Kernel modules
6. Firmware drivers
7. UEFI boot files
8. SFS Compression

TazPuppy is around 100Mb yet with wide hardware support. The small main SFS file size was achieved by using xz compression with 1Mb block size.

Slitaz was 40-50Mb but lack of hardware support by default. You need to download some kernel modules in order to work with computer to computer this will reduce portability.

I made a discussion on X-Slacko Slim on how to reduce the filesize the Puppy.

In order to make Puppy small:
1. Use a lightweight browser but HTML5 and ajax compliant and it can play HTML5 video, audio, and stream
2. A lightweight player that can play commonly used formats such as mpg, mp4, wmv, wma, mp3, avi, wav, aac, mkv, ogg, ogv, oga
3. Use maximum SFS compression settings when creating the main puppy sfs file. (xz compression with 1Mb block size)
4. Remove uneccessary docs and source code headers (those are belong in devx sfs modules)
5. Office suites is optional

For new, unique, and breakthrough features for puppy. Take a look at X-Slacko Slim (the base files which I improved and modified is already provided on the thread).

[oui]

Hi mistfire

Hello

I just want to share my opinion.

Here are some factors that makes the puppy bloat.

1. Web Browser
2. Multimedia Player
3. Office suites
4. DRI files
5. Kernel modules
6. Firmware drivers
7. UEFI boot files
8. SFS Compression

TazPuppy is around 100Mb yet with wide hardware support. The small main SFS file size was achieved by using xz compression with 1Mb block size.

Slitaz was 40-50Mb but lack of hardware support by default. You need to download some kernel modules in order to work with computer to computer this will reduce portability.

I made a discussion on X-Slacko Slim on how to reduce the filesize the Puppy.

In order to make Puppy small:
1. Use a lightweight browser but HTML5 and ajax compliant and it can play HTML5 video, audio, and stream
2. A lightweight player that can play commonly used formats such as mpg, mp4, wmv, wma, mp3, avi, wav, aac, mkv, ogg, ogv, oga
3. Use maximum SFS compression settings when creating the main puppy sfs file. (xz compression with 1Mb block size)
4. Remove uneccessary docs and source code headers (those are belong in devx sfs modules)
5. Office suites is optional

For new, unique, and breakthrough features for puppy. Take a look at X-Slacko Slim (the base files which I improved and modified is already provided on the thread).

Yes, you are right, above factors are determinant for a small distribution!

But, actually, it is not really the matter:

E.g., including the devx, josejp2424's latest DPup, DPupBuster, is ~ 375 Mb.
Without the devx: 273 Mb.

E.g., the new DPupBuster does NOT have: abiword, gnumeric,
claws-mail, hex-chat. What else could be chopped off? mpv?

This product of WoofCE is also only a one-bone where the big pre installed bone is the browser and it's libraries of course, but the browser is the very light browser Midori!

Nothing else excepted the usual tools and the very light weight little app's like mTpaint etc. (also being in the base of SliTaz, you can look in our Tazpup where you are the main actor!)

To build a small distro, a very important question is that of the choice of libraries (often very big dependencies): all GTK OR all QT (*1 ! And a distro builder is generally not trained to do that...

Other packages have to become extra packages...

(*1 probably the QT version will become 50 .. 60 Mb biger than the GTK version