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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
How NOT to save Puppy Linux: Saved version?
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GusCE6

Joined: 01 Oct 2018
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Fri 01 Mar 2019, 15:59    Post subject:  How NOT to save Puppy Linux: Saved version?  

I'm using an old laptop with Puppy Linux 5.2.5. Realistically, this seems to be the highest version it can effectively handle, with a Pentium 3 chip and 256MB RAM.

Although Puppy Linux itself is reasonably secure, especially when using Opera Mini 8, I'm wondering if it's possible to shut down a session without any changes whatsoever. I don't want to use the NO SAVE 5.2.5 because I have to reinstall several things each time.

The OS is installed on the hard drive since no effort, even by a qualified technician, has ever gotten Puppy Linux to run from a USB stick. The old Sony laptop (2001!) is a Dual Operating System device: Windows XP Service Pack 3 and Puppy Linux 5.2.5.

If I can shut down the works after Internet browsing without allowing any changes whatsoever in the system then that should be VERY secure since malware and viruses work by changing things.

It would seem an obvious feature of Puppy Linux, but I don't know how to do this.



Also: would running Android on Virtualbox work here?
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HerrBert

Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 91
Location: NRW, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 01 Mar 2019, 16:21    Post subject:  

not sure if this is, what you want:
Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3415
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 01 Mar 2019, 22:39    Post subject:  

Hi GusCE6,

Maybe this thread, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=730261#730261. Look for a post about the need to handle old Puppies different than new which I recall reading but couldn't immediately find. [Flaky memory -- I may be confusing this discussion with another entirely unrelated].

A couple hours later, on 2nd thought Herrbert's suggestion may be easier to implement, and perhaps less chancy.

I pretty sure with Lupu what you'll need to do is install the pupsaveconfig pet, linked from here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=924182#924182. Then edit the kernel line on your grub4dos menu.lst. It probably now starts with the word kernel and --ignoring anything else which may be on it-- reads something like:

kernel /Lupu/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd ....

Change that to

kernel /Lupu/vmlinuz pmedia=ataflash...

You can continue using any other arguments you now have on that line. I just wanted to emphasis the change from atahd to ataflash. [What it actually does is 'trick' Puppy into 'thinking' that its being run from a USB-Stick/flash-drive].

Reboot. Then open Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager and click the Save Session Tab. Then set the Save Interval to 0 (Zero). Remember to save that change, and Save the Change to your SaveFile.

When you shutdown/reboot notice if despite the above changes an Automatic Save is still being performed. If so, you'll have to read the thread from its beginning which is where you'll find instructions for removing the Automatic Save from older Puppies.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2117

PostPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 06:03    Post subject:  

I was thinking of something a bit different; it should be possible to perform a really radical flush of the browser caches on startup, so that it would be as though you were starting afresh each time with a new save file even though you did in fact save and load the old one.

You could have a script with something like;

rm /home/username/mozilla/.firefox/*.*

or rm /root/mozilla/.firefox/*.*

and set to load when you start Puppy up; although that might be going too far, it would certainly work.

You could do the same for office suites like LibreOffice (if you wanted to); just delete the files you’d created or added to every time you booted the Puppy system up. In this way, the save file wouldn't get any bigger but you'd still be able to add files, programs etc. to it as and when you wanted to; it would all be under your control.

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GusCE6

Joined: 01 Oct 2018
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 17:43    Post subject:  

I tried the trick of editing three lines in a file and changing a save-frequency number to zero- no luck whatsoever.

Possibly the problem is that my OS is on the hard drive.

So far the only answer seems to be just using the power switch- and choosing "Ignore" on the next boot-up. But I don't like doing that.
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1373
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 18:15    Post subject:  

If you have a frugal install for your puppy 5.2.5 (not a full install)

There is a program named pupsave-config that does what you want.
It can be set it up to either save or not save at shutdown, gives a choice. You need to make a save file before installing pupsave-config.

The program has the ability when set up to eliminate saves and give a choice to save or not save the session during shutdown.

More info at this thread including the download.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60678

.
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 20:02    Post subject:  

perdido wrote:
If you have a frugal install for your puppy 5.2.5 (not a full install)

Good call... is this a frugal or full install? There is no way to get a full install to NOT save.

GusCE6 wrote:
I tried the trick of editing three lines in a file and changing a save-frequency number to zero- no luck whatsoever.

Possibly the problem is that my OS is on the hard drive.

Assuming you have a frugal install, have you changed the "pmedia=atahd" in the kernel line of your bootloader config file (probably called 'menu.lst') to "pmedia=ataflash" and rebooted afterwards, as mikeslr described above? This is the necessary first step before you can change Puppy's save behavior if you are running it from a hard drive. If you have done this correctly, the save session dialog in the event manager should tell you that Puppy is running in "pupmode 13" (frugal USB mode) rather than "pupmode 12" (frugal hard drive mode), and the option to change the save interval should then be available.
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3564

PostPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 21:29    Post subject:  

mostly_lurking wrote:
perdido wrote:
If you have a frugal install for your puppy 5.2.5 (not a full install)

Good call... is this a frugal or full install? There is no way to get a full install to NOT save.

Create a snapshot (rsync), use/change things, restore the rsync snapshot Smile

Can be surprisingly quick (yes first full rsync snapshot is slow, but undoing changes (rsyncing back again) can be very quick if only a small number of changes have occurred (as more often is the case)).

I use that in OpenBSD. EasyOS also works along similar lines. Mounts the main EasyOS (equivalent of Puppy) sfs, stores all changes immediately to disk (save folder), uses snapshots (mksquashfs of the changes folder) to preserve a state, rolls back by removing the current save folder and unsquashing the snapshot sfs content to the save folder area.

Unlike saving changes to ram/save-on-demand, that is limited to available free ram space, saving to disk is only restricted by available free disk space.

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tommy

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 07:02    Post subject:  

Why don't you try a Remaster?

Install all your needed programs, such as a modern browser like Palemoon (Pentium 3 is a Sse-capable CPU, there is a sse version of Palemoon 27 somewhere in this forum), then do a Remaster of Puppy. This will create a new ISO of puppy CD, open the ISO with Isomaster, extract the freshly created puppy-5.25.sfs and overwrite (or backup somewhere) the original sfs, then reboot. No need to change the vmlinuz or initrd.gz files.

You will have a new, customised Puppy with all you need, and on shutdown just answer NO to the 'first shutdown' dialog.

Note that you need 1GB to 1.5 GB of a mounted filesystem for the remaster to work.

I did this on Slacko and now I can browse safely with a fresh Palemoon every time I boot Puppy! No savefile, no internet cookies, malwares or cache concerns.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5490
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 07:40    Post subject:  

@ GusCE6:-

GusCE6 wrote:
The OS is installed on the hard drive since no effort, even by a qualified technician, has ever gotten Puppy Linux to run from a USB stick. The old Sony laptop (2001!) is a Dual Operating System device: Windows XP Service Pack 3 and Puppy Linux 5.2.5.


Mm. Probably not surprising. A Sony Vaio of that vintage would have been using USB 1.1 ports. The ability to boot from a USB interface wasn't added to the USB specifications until the introduction of USB 2.0. Now; although USB 2.0 was introduced in 2000:-

(From Wikipedia's main article on the USB standards history:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB)

Quote:
"USB 2.0 was released in April 2000, adding a higher maximum signalling rate of 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s) named High Speed or High Bandwidth, in addition to the USB 1.x Full Speed signalling rate of 12 Mbit/s."


...the majority of manufacturers were slow to implement the specs upgrade, with the result that USB 'booting' didn't become a practical possibility until around 2004. Dell were one of the very first to include this ability in their machines; our ancient 2002/3 Inspiron 1100 lappie, it appears, was one of the earliest on the market to possess this capability.

Again, from Wikipedia:-

Quote:
"USB Mass Storage Device Class (MSC or UMS) standardizes connections to storage devices. At first intended for magnetic and optical drives, it has been extended to support flash drives. It has also been extended to support a wide variety of novel devices as many systems can be controlled with the familiar metaphor of file manipulation within directories. The process of making a novel device look like a familiar device is also known as extension. The ability to boot a write-locked SD card with a USB adapter is particularly advantageous for maintaining the integrity and non-corruptible, pristine state of the booting medium.

Though most personal computers since mid-2004 can boot from USB mass storage devices, USB is not intended as a primary bus for a computer's internal storage. However, USB has the advantage of allowing hot-swapping, making it useful for mobile peripherals, including drives of various kinds."


Hence why you've had to install it to the hard drive.....though it is perfectly possible to install a 'frugal' Puppy to an HDD rather than a flash drive; I run all my Pups that way. As mostly_lurking says, if you've performed a 'full' install, there's no way in hell to prevent it from saving; a full install will save every little change back to the hard drive as it happens, since it's not running totally in RAM like a 'frugal' does.....and with that little RAM, a 'full' install would normally be the recommendation in any case.


Mike. Wink

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GusCE6

Joined: 01 Oct 2018
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed 20 Mar 2019, 15:21    Post subject:    

So far I found a way- it is by no means perfect so far, but it has promise.

It was so obvious I kept missing it: merely use the Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid NO SAVE file upon startup!

All you have to do is go through the screen adjustments- it always starts wrong for some reason but this takes under a minute- install the driver for the Panda Wireless USB stick- and you're on your way.

I have a "broken down" Firefox 13 browser since Yahoo!Mail causes problems with Firefox 45 and Palemoon. The 256MB RAM total is a problem but this is being done via this technique.

If there was a way to run Opera Mini 8 this way then it would be pretty much complete. You cannot use SFS this way since that requires a SAVE, but if there was a PET equivalent that didn't take much space that would work. A few moments to start is no big deal since it was the same with XP mode.

Thanks to all here for your help- I intend to look into some of the other suggestions once my skill has increased; I do not want to lose the existing SAVED file here.

Wink
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3415
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 20 Mar 2019, 22:32    Post subject:  

Hi GusCE6,
As long as you're running a Frugal Install you CAN use SFSes even without a SaveFile. The problem is that you would have to configure them each time you load them. There are two work-arounds to that problem. But both require a Remaster.

Tommy suggested Remastering and that would be a good idea even if you don't use SFSes. nic007's remaster-suite took most of the pain out of remastering, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1001289#1001289 as does shinobar's earlier Remaster-X, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=780345#780345. Before running either you could remove builtin applications you don't need, and either you can remove unneeded drivers and firmware. The result would be more usable RAM for applications you actually want.

You'll need to create a small SaveFile. The first time you load an SFS it creates a config file. You can copy it somewhere. As with other settings (local, time-zone, wifi etc) after unloading the SFS but before remastering you could copy it back to its original location. Thus, the remaster captures your settings and configurations which were in the SaveFile. After which you can operate without a SaveFile.

I can't find the post right-now. But nic007 has operated without a SaveFile for sometime and explained another method.
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