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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
Where the puppylinux 9 should focus on?.
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Where the puppylinux 9 should focus on?
Help hold onto their turn-of-the-century computers
10%
 10%  [ 4 ]
Become an entry system for the aspiring hacker/developer
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Become a minimal modular system (a’la tinycore)
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Expand its size and become a “provide everything OOTB” (a’ la Mint or Elementary), but in a layered OS
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Maintain current focus and try to increase conformity (and likely size) with more traditional linuxes and built methods
36%
 36%  [ 14 ]
“whatever” as long as we have fun…
21%
 21%  [ 8 ]
All/None of the above
21%
 21%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 38

Author Message
darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 06:12    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
darry19662018 wrote:
Mmmmm interesting idea Puppyt for separating proprietary firmware from main sfs.

In some resent puppies (all by PB) the firmware is on a separate SFS. Just rename it so will not load and see if your system will work.
However, there are still blobs and non-free stuff. Foremost the grub/grub2/grub4dos that boots the machine and then most of the audio/video codecs. Other things that tisquel also purges from Ubuntu are not usually in puppies.
darry19662018 wrote:
My main concern though was how systemd and pulseaudio are creeping into puppy development especially systemd.

Would you mind defining creeping? AFAIK neither puppylinux not fatdog use systemd to manage the system. Only some(?) (all?) debiandogs do, I think.
Puppylinux/fatdog just have a library that is needed for many applications to run.
If down the road these applications also require systemd to control the machine, then we'll be in real trouble. Hopefully this will not happen or if it does would be possible to bypass.


Hi Mavrothal,

You have nicely put what I meant in your last sentence

"If down the road these applications also require systemd to control the machine, then we'll be in real trouble. Hopefully this will not happen or if it does would be possible to bypass"

Though we don't use systemd as a initialization system. Systemd is starting to find its way into other parts of the Linux system such as the bootloader grub. All I'm saying to be weary of the situation and be informed as devs and please use Puppy alternatives like retrovol not ones that use pulseaudio like gnome-mixer does. We are an independent distro and lets stay that way.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 13:22    Post subject:  

hi mavrothal

could you tell us puppy users
who the puppy woof-ce puppy masters team are
and what their focus for puppy 9 is

thanks

wanderer
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 13:53    Post subject:  

For my self I have decided to take a puppy of choice totallt strip it and run a whole lot of static apps and portable apps so as little of systemd and pulseaudio are involved.

Been thinking about this all night especially Wanderers thoughts on a modular system and you don't loose functionality because there is plenty of portable stuff to meant most needs.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 15:11    Post subject:  

hi darry

i am very interested in what you are doing

i moved everything from the main sfs to the save file
and this made it easier to work with
because you could just add and remove stuff without remastering

also take a look at corepup/tinycore
it may be easier to accomplish what you want with that system

wanderer
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 15:37    Post subject:  

Hi Wanderer,

Basically I'm using as I type Buildins to strip the Puppy - I have chosen Dpup Buster as my Base system. Then reboot.

For stuff that doesn't show up in buildins utility I use pfind and find all entries for that app and delete those entries - deleting the program manually.

By the way I discovered that Tiny core apps can be downloaded and rename the to sfs and install them or use uextract to unzip them and run them portable. I like using a pup as the base because of the hardware support and just strip and add what I like much like RSH did. Makes the system easier to maintain and avoid what I don't want eg, gtk3

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Dry Falls

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 591
Location: Upper Columbia

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 17:11    Post subject:  

Hi there. Slackware doesn't even offer the systemd library, even running kde. If slack puppies have it, the devs got it from somewhere else. Slackware does run full pulse by default, so many of their packages will have that as a dependency. On the other hand, Slackware also has a full-alsa repo with separate audio/system packages compiled accordingly. Not sure if any pup devs utilize it.
Personally, I don't see the problem with pulse other than size. JL64 has no systemd even with some Arch Linux binaries & libs. It has both alsa/retrovol and pulse-audio (no apulse library needed for modern browsers) - the latter is default.
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 19:33    Post subject:  

Well if pulse- audio works well for you then I guess thats fine for my machine it doesn't.

My machine works fine without it don't want period.

I am glad your distro doesn't have systemd - but how long can Slack hold out or Devuan or anyone else for that matter???

Anyway I have said my bit its up to the guardians of Puppie's development to do their homework and think about not just following what other distros do we have our own apps in Puppy we should be using those if someone wants to add pulse to their puppy well thats their choice but that is what it should be a choice not a hook.

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15521
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 23:31    Post subject: Potentials  

Quote:
For my self I have decided to take a puppy of choice totally strip it and run a whole lot of static apps and portable apps so as little of systemd and pulseaudio are involved.


Sounds like fun Smile

When you have something it might go under potentials.
http://www.puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy9

We need an artist to create a logo ... Cool

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr 2019, 16:00    Post subject:  

I have changed from Debian Buster to Puduan 7.

In my opinion Puduan should be the base - their stand on systemd is a good fit for Puppy.

Puduan a lost opportunity.

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4123
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr 2019, 13:03    Post subject:  

I voted for:
“whatever” as long as we have fun…
But to be honest, only because I didn't like the other options very much.

Just a thought:
How about a much more "connected" line between the Woof-CE developers and this forum ?
It seems to me they are very separated, it would be good IMO if there is more communication.
How it is now the Woof-CE developers are on some sort of "Ivory-Tower" that cannot be reached by the average users (github is too difficult for most of us).

EDIT: I mean that I'd vote for that if above would be one of the options, hint Wink
Something like:
"Let the users decide which direction Puppy 9 goes"

Fred

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr 2019, 00:14    Post subject:  

Puppy 9 is now a thing ...

A logo is being developed ..


We have a wiki page and we have a codename for developers K9 or canine ...

Geek fact: K9 was the robot companion of Dr Who (killed Daleks)

We are the Dorg
Resistance is futile

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 639
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 05:16    Post subject:  

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1026513#1026513

As a follow on from what Musher said Puduan would be ideal as a base. Based on Devuan who care about what they producing. Musher's 6 version is a daily driver. Great for old hardware.

I have said it once and I'll say it again Devuan represents everything Puppy should be about Systemd free and quality.

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Reziac

Joined: 25 Dec 2016
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2019, 00:43    Post subject:  

Necro R Us... I tend to become alarmed when something I like gets the "where should we go" treatment, as that's often a precursor to some drastic, unpleasant, and often fatal change of direction. Don't do that. Smile

darry19662018 wrote:

I would like to see T2 returned to Woof CE to build a slimmer pup like Racy, 4.31 etc as well Devaun which is frankly a better base than systemd infected debian and ubuntu.

Also look into other distros like alpine and void linux for bases.


I've wondered what PCLinuxOS would be like, reworked as a Puppy. (BTW no systemd) PCLOS is my everyday (and it's good on middle-aged hardware), but I like Puppy and try to keep an eye on it.

I've also wondered what a phone would be like with Puppy instead of <ick> Android.

I had Wary 5.5 on my old laptop for a long time. It's still my go-to boot disk. So it's kind of my baseline for Puppy stuff, an expectation that it'll work on that older system.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3068
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2019, 01:47    Post subject:  

Luckily older Puppys can be used with newer kernels. For example: I have Racy (I've removed the old browser) and the base sfs has been repacked, only 65MB in size. Using Tahr kernel which is only 23MB in size. This old Puppy can even run with the latest Palemoon browser compiled by watchdog. Fun distro to work with.
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