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Dpup Stretch 7.5 CE (RC-5)
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5472
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr 2019, 13:37    Post subject:  

@ tallboy:-

As for me, Olaf, I assemble everything for an SFS in a dedicated directory (in a 'work' area) with all the appropriate directories/files, etc., in the correct locations. Then I use the 'mksquashfs' command upnorth mentioned. I usually tell it to create the SFS alongside the source directory, in the 'work' area.....

In the Puppies, I usually have a pair of 'work' directories within /root. (These 'work' directories are sym-linked to the real 'work' directories on an external USB hard drive). 'make-pet' (which works with Trio's 'PetMaker'), and 'MAKE-SFS', where I assemble and build SFS packages.

For example, where the source directory might be 'Palemoon-28.4.1', the command would go as follows:-

Code:
mksquashfs(space)/root/MAKE-SFS/Palemoon-28.4.1(space)/root/MAKE-SFS/Palemoon-28.4.1.sfs


Basically:-

mksquashfsspacesource_directoryspacedestination_package.sfs

Hope that helps!


Mike. Wink

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2122

PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr 2019, 13:56    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
Evening, radky/everybody.

Now, then. I'm a-thinking about giving this a look-see. Coupla questions.....

Are the DPups stuck with using .deb packages only, or can they also use .pets/SFSs/run 'portables', etc?

Following a response from Foxpup, do they make use of the Debian repos.....even though, apparently, 'sudo apt-get install' isn't needed? Do they use something similar to the PPM?

dpup uses the same package manager as any other version of puppy (i.e. petget). You can install .pet or .deb files. If you want to install apt it is theoretically possible and I have partial instructions at:
How to use "apt" on PuppyLinux

You might want to do this if you want to use apt to check the signature of downloaded packages based on debians web of trust. Also some repo's aren't compatable with puppy's package manager (e.g. either the tor or i2p repo), in which case you could download the package with apt and install it with petget.


Quote:
Would my 'portable'-Mozilla browsers (based on Fred's Quantum-portable) run in this? (Can't think of any reason why they shouldn't, but it'd be nice to have confirmation, like..!)

And, most important of all.....does it run as root, or as a 'user' only?


Mike. Wink


It runs as root by default like any other rpuppy. Regarding portable apps, I see know reason they they shouldn't work but it all depends on the dependencies so please try it and let us know.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5472
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr 2019, 16:08    Post subject:  

@ s243a:-

Cheers, mate. Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I may just be adding another one to the 'kennels'...!

I'll have a closer look as soon as I get a bit more free time.


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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1499
Location: Drøbak, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr 2019, 15:24    Post subject:  

Thank you for the explanation, Mike. I have not been able to compile any sources before on my home computers, simply because they have been short of RAM, and space.

You can usually install both a Debian-based .pet and a .deb packet in Ubuntu-based Puppys.

Debian-based Dpups usually don't accept Ubuntu-based .debs, and usually don't like .pets made for a Ubuntu-based Puppy either.

But most Ubuntu packages have their origin in Debian, so the amount of packages in the Dpup PPM, is fairly good! If you want to se what packages are available in a debian-stretch-main repo for for example Filesystem, a little dialog window pops up:
Quote:
Please wait, processing all entries may take awhile...

Laughing

(I may risk being banned for a few months for saying this, but the default Dpup Stretch-7.5 icon theme is one of the fugliest I have seen...) Sad

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr 2019, 18:01    Post subject:  

s243a wrote:
Quote:
Would my 'portable'-Mozilla browsers (based on Fred's Quantum-portable) run in this? (Can't think of any reason why they shouldn't, but it'd be nice to have confirmation, like..!)

And, most important of all.....does it run as root, or as a 'user' only?

Mike. Wink

It runs as root by default like any other rpuppy. Regarding portable apps, I see know reason they they shouldn't work but it all depends on the dependencies so please try it and let us know.

Barry's containers concept is neat. You still run as root, but with capabilities dropped.

You need to ppm install something like libcap2-bin-utils ... or something like that for capabilities setting and then run something like

capsh --drop=cap_sys_chroot -- /bin/sh

If you run capsh --print before and after doing that, then you'll see that it can't run chroot commands. Stopped at the kernel level.

Set up a aufs (or in dpup's case I believe unionfs) of the main sfs and you can create a 'top' layer with its own separate changes folder for next to no overhead, and then have capsh chroot into that using something like

capsh --drop=cap_sys_chroot --chroot=/root/top -- /bin/sh

Within that, even though its root, it can't chroot out of that. In effect a limited root. You could use that to run firefox or whatever within that chroot and just dispose of it once done.

The other main weakness is X. If however you ppm xserver-xephyr (or something like that, I'm typing all of this from memory/off-top-of-head), then you can run something like Xephyr :1 & .. and a new X session is created, that's separate from your main X (DISPLAY :0)

If then you prefix the earlier capsh .... command with DISPLAY=:1 capsh .... then that's as good as contained/jailed. But again - is still running as root.

If you install firefox portable into that chroot ... then it should still run as normal. But if you're using Xephyr you wont be able to cut/paste directly between that firefox window and your normal desktop .. as the security measure block that, as they block crackers from doing similar.

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2122

PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr 2019, 20:33    Post subject:  

Has bootloader code been eliminated from WoofCE in the universal installer? I recall that in older versions of the universal installer there was an option where one could select various bootloader options (e.g. extlinux). I tried running the universal installer but it asked, do you want to run grub4dos rather than "do you want to install a bootloader?" I don't think that grub4dos is so great if the the boot loader is installed on a linux partition.

Also, there should be a way to run the universal installer and only install the boot loader. I can manually copy the puppy files from the ISO. I don't need the universal installer to do this for me.

Note that that I attempted to use the "Universal Installer" on the partition that I was running puppy from, so this could have been the issue. I actually booted from a different hard drive but the save folder was on the hard drive that I wanted to install a different bootloader.
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radky

Joined: 02 May 2010
Posts: 979

PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr 2019, 21:42    Post subject:  

@s243a,

If I understand correctly, woof-ce devs added the grub4dos function (line 454) to puppyinstaller as follows:

Jul 14, 2014: puppyinstaller (aka PUI): improved interface, bug fixes and enhancements
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/commit/3ff685892d39cc0cafa3544fcd3f01e1cf123455

For your review, the following link shows all woof-ce commits pertaining to puppyinstaller:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/search?o=desc&p=1&q=puppyinstaller&s=committer-date&type=Commits

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2122

PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr 2019, 22:38    Post subject:  

radky wrote:
@s243a,

If I understand correctly, woof-ce devs added the grub4dos function (line 454) to puppyinstaller as follows:

Jul 14, 2014: puppyinstaller (aka PUI): improved interface, bug fixes and enhancements
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/commit/3ff685892d39cc0cafa3544fcd3f01e1cf123455

For your review, the following link shows all woof-ce commits pertaining to puppyinstaller:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/search?o=desc&p=1&q=puppyinstaller&s=committer-date&type=Commits


thanks for the info Smile

I took a look in github. The message I was refering to comes from:

Code:

 mbr.bin "$(gettext 'From the Syslinux package')" `"

line# 1110 of /usr/sbin/puppyinstaller

This text is part of the variable "MBRCHOICE". Some further digging shows that this code is only executed if PMEDIA is in usbflash|usbhd|ataflash (see line# 1089 of puppylinstaller.

I suppose I can try grub4dos and see what happens but it has been my experience with USB drives that syslinux does a better job of booting linux partiations (i.e. ext2/3/4) than grub4dos. Maybe this isn't the case though for PMEDIA in atahd|satahd (line# 1412 of puppyinstaller). I suppose I'll try it and see what happens.

Edit: I gave it a try and grub4dos seemed to work on an ext4 partition...or at least it did on this particular machine on an internal drive.

Last edited by s243a on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 04:27; edited 1 time in total
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 03:50    Post subject:  

First page, kernel sources for 4.9.149 is a dead link

Tried dpup (4.9.149 kernel version) for the first time. Works very well, especially if you also install Fred's portable firefox and use that for the browser.

For frugal HDD install I re-squashed the sfs' using lzo level 1 compression instead of sticking with the high compressed default versions - yes that does mean much larger filesizes, but operationally for me that felt much snappier.

I must have accidentally triggered the full screen key for geany as that was showing without a title bar, which caught me out - thinking it had been set to have no title in the jwm config files, wasn't until after I'd inspected those and saw no such group entry that I realised my error (toggled full screen off) ... doh!

Have it installed on a Acer ES 15 laptop, 4GB dual AMD/Radeon with 1TB HDD space. That has a DVD. Was way too sluggish when using Windows for the owner who has bought a Mac as a replacement. I may get to keep that as even after seeing Dpup's operational speed they're still pretty intent on just 'bin it'.

Did try mounting my Android and that all worked fine.

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s243a

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Posts: 2122

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 04:26    Post subject:  

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5472
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 06:38    Post subject:  

Well, I have to say.....this is NOT 'alf bad! Very Happy

Fast; stable; and (with a couple of exceptions that were my own 'dozy' fault) pretty much the most straight-forward install I've performed for a long time.

Yes; I like it.....

What'cha think of my 'Robo-puppies'? Shocked Laughing





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Last edited by Mike Walsh on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 20:37; edited 1 time in total
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 12:22    Post subject:  

Nice Mike. The dogs need a stretch Smile

=======================

This is a dump of my rough test code for a container under dpup

Hard coded values (I just wanted to see if it basically worked)

Code:
#!/bin/sh

# requires (from ppm) ...
# unionfs_fuse
# libcap2-bin_2.25-1
# xserver-xephyr

# You may have to adjust the sound card inside the container
# (Menu, Setup, Alsa Wizard)

# Mount the main sfs (currently hard coded)
# Think this is relatively generic
mkdir -p /root/union
mkdir -p /root/sfs
mkdir -p /root/changes

mount -o loop /initrd/mnt/dev_save/dpup/puppy_stretch_7.5.sfs /root/sfs
unionfs-fuse -o nonempty -o allow_root -o cow /root/changes=RW:/root/sfs=RO /root/union

# Create another separate X server
Xephyr :1 &
sleep 3 # time to settle

# For network
cp -f /etc/resolv.conf /root/union/etc/resolv.conf
cd /root/union
mount -t proc proc proc/
mount --rbind /sys sys/
mount --rbind /dev dev/
mount --rbind /dev/mixer dev/mixer/  # for sound
mount --rbind /dev/snd dev/snd/
mount --rbind /etc/machine-id etc/machine-id  # firefox needs this

cd /root
cat <<'EOF' >/root/union/action_to_run
#!/bin/sh
DISPLAY=:1 export DISPLAY
/usr/local/bin/defaultbrowser &
/usr/bin/jwm
EOF
chmod +x /root/union/action_to_run

DISPLAY=:1 unshare -m capsh --drop=cap_sys_admin,cap_sys_chroot --chroot=/root/union -- /action_to_run

sleep 4 # time to settle
umount /root/union
umount /root/sfs



Clickable thumbnail

Runs as root - within a chroot, with cap_sys_admin and cap_sys_chroot capabilities dropped (so a cracker can't chroot out of the chroot or do other admin'y type functions) and uses Xephyr (so no stuffing of commands into - or watching other main system Windows)

Low overhead as it uses mounts the main sfs as the chroot mount point. Changes are stored in /root/changes, but I guess more usually you'd just delete that folder after the container was finished with.

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Last edited by rufwoof on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 18:15; edited 1 time in total
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radky

Joined: 02 May 2010
Posts: 979

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 18:01    Post subject:  

s243a wrote:
Quote:
I gave it a try and grub4dos seemed to work on an ext4 partition...

Thanks for the confirmation, and helpful input !

---

Mike Walsh wrote:
Quote:
What'cha think of my 'Robo-puppies'?

Almost bionic ! Smile

---

rufwoof wrote:
Quote:
First page, kernel sources for 4.9.149 is a dead link...


Now fixed, thanks for testing and for your experience with containers under dpup !

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5472
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 20:54    Post subject:  

@ radky:-

radky wrote:
Mike Walsh wrote:-
Quote:
What'cha think of my 'Robo-puppies'?
Almost bionic! Smile


Yeah, they're quite neat, aren't they? I did a search on DuckDuckGo (haven't bothered with Google for an age!) for 'Images of robotic & cybernetic dogs'.....and amongst the usual dross was this gem. I came across the original of Phil's Bionicpup64 default wallpaper, but I liked this one better..! Very Happy

----------------

Now, then; clue me in, would you? I see you've got things set up so that you have to use the pager to switch desktops. I know MochiMoppel published the 'workaround' for Pup's default scrollable behaviour to make it act like this some time ago.....but I can't for the life of me find it now.

Personally, I prefer the 'default' Puppy behaviour, where scrolling with your cursor on the desktop runs through them, one after another. Where do I need to make the edit to reverse this back to 'normal'? I know some folks detest Pup's usual behaviour, but me, well.....I've got so used to it by now, I get kinda lost when it doesn't work! Laughing


Mike. Wink

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MochiMoppel


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat 13 Apr 2019, 21:53    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
I know MochiMoppel published the 'workaround' for Pup's default scrollable behaviour to make it act like this some time ago.....but I can't for the life of me find it now.
You mean this ? Doesn't work anymore in JWM 2.3. - Joe "fixed" it Rolling Eyes .
Scrolling should still work when mouse is placed over the tray.
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