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backi
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun 27 Feb 2011, 22:00
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#161 Post by backi »

Hi you guys !
In case you did not know ITMERSH has been banned , because of rude/nasty Behavior to nic007.
In my opinion he went more than quite far... but I am no Friend of banning .......he better had apologized to nic007 .
His Talent is really missed and needed.....lots of cool Tools he created ....
Don`t know from what Devil he was ridden ,
But that`s the Way it is .

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fredx181
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Location: holland

#162 Post by fredx181 »

backi wrote:Hi you guys !
In case you did not know ITMERSH has been banned , because of rude/nasty Behavior to nic007.
In my opinion he went more than quite far... but I am no Friend of banning .......he better had apologized to nic007 .
His Talent is really missed and needed.....lots of cool Tools he created ....
Don`t know from what Devil he was ridden ,
But that`s the Way it is .
Yes, sad that he went, btw, he requested himself to Flash to be banned from the forum.
I have the feeling that it didn't have to do only with the fight he had with nic007.
Maybe he just needed to force a situation like that because he wanted to start a "new" life (whatever that might be) :roll: :?:
(but just a guess really, who am I to analyze his personality from distance)

Fred

backi
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#163 Post by backi »

Maybe he will reincarnate in a renewed Body/Personality after his Death ..... freed from his Past- Life Karma . :wink: :wink:

See you Fred !

wiak
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#164 Post by wiak »

In case anyone forgets what distros contain threads/support on this forum please refer to first post of this thread.

Personally I've stopped all dev work for Puppy or woof-CE/makepup since this distro-support information is not being made sticky in some form or another.

I suggest Xenial or Bionic Dog to new users (note I'm referring to the Dog versions, not the similarly named Pups, which are no smaller but are limited in comparison to these Ubuntu-based Dogs); also, Void Linux for those keen on helping to develop an independent distribution. The Dogs provide all the nice dev tools and utilities and ease-of-use out of the box. Void Linux is superb but currently for full install use and needs additions added per a user's taste - but great for tinkering with as a developer or someone wanting to build a new slimmer (live or frugal) distro based on it.

The following are the murga-forum threads for 64bit versions of Bionic and XenialDog. I don't use Cinnamon version since that slows down my system too much. 32bit versions of these Dogs are also available in 'Puppy Projects' section.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113210
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109476

For more info, refer to: https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/

Hence I keep two distros on my dev machine: XenialDog64 since has everything immediately on hand for working with squashfs, aufs, overlayfs and more + Void Linux for my dev tinkering/programming etc pursuits.

BionicDog64 or XenialDog64 also tend to work flawlessly, but also have great forum support and good user interface (including great right-click selection operations in PCManFM File Manager; Rox Filemanager is also available, though I personally rarely use that).

The only thing that occasionally/very-rarely might give a problem (applies to all distributions, including Pups) would be if your hardware did not have some small piece of firmware included by default with the Dog (though most are well covered). However, that is generally an easy issue to track down and fix - you would just need to ask on the appropriate Dog thread.

wiak

wanderer
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#165 Post by wanderer »

hi wiak

are you still working on your tinycore/slitaz project
and is there a thread for it

edit
oh sorry i did not see your posts on slitaz
are you working on any minimal modular stuff like tinycore

also i am going to keep posting on this thread to keep it up
since that is the only way available
i think the puppy forum guys probaly just have too much in their plate

thanks for all your work
we all appreciate it

wanderer

wanderer
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#166 Post by wanderer »

hi all

just a reminder of the great variety of distros
available on the puppy forum

i have been using upupbb a lot
great distro
in my opinion as polished as linux mint

but this has encouraged me to try the other ones
like i said i stopped using many of them
because there was a period where i could not get them to work
but this period seems to have passed

wanderer

wiak
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#167 Post by wiak »

wanderer wrote: are you working on any minimal modular stuff like tinycore
I'm concentrating on adding some Dog-like facility to Void Linux at the moment, but yes I am hoping to generalise that work into more modular form to be used in other distros such as with Slitaz, tiny core, and I wouldn't like to limit any such 'modular' work to any few distros. I'm actually interested in combining some tricks and facilities/utilities from all the small distros into some kind of bolt-on addons. Seems such a waste that all these distros have some great utilities/functionality/facilities that had so much work go into them, but only used on their target distro (or re-invented wheels) when in reality many of them could also be usefully used in other small distros without adding hardly any bloat (since such utilities/facilities are often tiny in size and resource usage). That is one reason I think narrow-minded distro protectionism is against the greater good to Linux community as a whole, and backward as a form of creative thinking.

It is not so much that ideas should be 'stolen/forked' but rather that true diversity naturally results in the rich products of such diversity, which ideally should be modular and able to be bolted on and off (just as we love sfs-load capabilities in Pups and Dogs for example). We should, for example, be able to switch-in or switch-out different package managers and even create ways for these to communicate with each other so they don't have to step on each others toes (so designing-in the installation of specially tailored compiled apps along with say official 'debs or slitaz or tinycore or void' apps in such a way to avoid confict) with, I imagine, some layer of software designed to protect the system from potential conflicts; that might be simply a matter of checking compatible libs or in more difficult cases using a multiplicity of sandboxes/container-technologies.

Puritanical (pure/official/woof-CE pup, for example) thinking is conservative and medieval in technological terms (and very ostrich-in-the-sand-like in terms of this forum's current administration); really there is nothing 'wrong' with a mongrel dog/pup/core/taz/void etc etc, in whatever shape and form most interests its users. And how wonderful a distro that could be forged into any of these or all of these, in part or whole - no such thing then as a single distro - but some upper abstraction that allows any combination to work in a unified rich application-dependant manner. Why restrict ourselves (in this forum community) when in theory there is no such restriction - just different ideas, methods, implementations - all of which can be treated like blocks of Lego to build a true rainbow of 'a' distribution - or pick and choose at run time... Sure, some things have to be 'compatible' but there are ways and means to allow even complete difference to be absorbed without conflict. I'm not sure such a new development should still be called 'Puppy' - that was a wonderful wee distribution from the past and nostalgicly nice that it is still 'current' (in terms of remaining able to use up-to-date repos) and available, but times have changed, and a new distro can be all a Pup was and a lot more than that besides (the Dogs have already proved this).

There seems to be renewed attempts to bolster traditional Puppy support in the form of "Let's make Puppy Great Again" propaganda with new logos and artwork designs being called for from the Puppy community 'masses' for some as-yet-to-come woof-CE Puppy. All well and good?... I think what is actually required is a forum-wide call for a new 'family' name for the new distro/mongrels and venture: a wake-up call, which should start with high regard and visibility for the various creative alternatives and efforts currently to be found in the various threads and sections of this forum.

This forum is not about Puppy, though that product is what it began its life with. Rather, this particular Murga Linux community is the result of the multiple creative minds of its members; the community is not the result of some woof-CE generated Pup being forced/advertised/prioritised upon the (the once upon a time Puppy-only) forum members as the One and Only True Pup - times change, and so has the forum, and what it does and represents. This (n)ever-being-allowed-to-drown thread is but a small reflection of that.

wiak

wanderer
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#168 Post by wanderer »

hi wiak

yes

i think this thread is a great place to discuss and showcase
"alternative" puppy inspired ideas and distros

i also agree that the idea of making applications into modules
from multiple systems is a great idea

then people would only need to use and develop
the modules and cores that they needed

and there could be a repository of cores and modules
to mix and match to make distros

this would be useful for puppy-ce as well
since their components could be made into modules

perhaps a script or recipe
to make apps and cores could be put together

my suggestion is to develop tinycore because

1. the cores and many modules
are already made and are actively being developed

2. i think the symlink system is superior to the layered file system

anyway

thanks for continuing to look into this area
since (unlike me) you have both the vision and the skill to do it

wanderer

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mavrothal
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#169 Post by mavrothal »

wanderer wrote: i think this thread is a great place to discuss and showcase
"alternative" puppy inspired ideas and distros
:wink:
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==

wanderer
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#170 Post by wanderer »

hi mavrolthal

thanks for your support

yes this thread may solve the problem

wanderer

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Lobster
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puppy 8.1

#171 Post by Lobster »

A friend has a small dog named Uzi after the rapper. I consider Uzi an inappropriate name as it is also a popular gangsta gun.

I renamed the dog 'stir fry' and as we head towards Puppy Nine with the official next version being called the politically incorrect Stir Fry. We can if ready do something completely different for 8.1

That includes Slacko, non woof, woof ce or derivatives. Who knows what is in the wok? :D

Image

Please do not cook dogs :wink:
without the correct seasoning ... :twisted:
Last edited by Lobster on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 09:12, edited 1 time in total.
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

musher0
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#172 Post by musher0 »

Hi lobster and all.

Dogs love acting, have you noticed? Even if the role is that of a
vegetable! :lol: (Poor thing!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To come back to the subject of this thread, may I be allowed to push
three of my Puppies, since nobody has done it:
my Puduan-6, with wmx as the main window manager;
and my bilingual xenial-7.
Both of which have received praise by competent Puppyists.

And finally, my Puppy-Stretch-FR, which targets French-speaking users.

All three are 32-bit Puppies.

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jamesbond
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#173 Post by jamesbond »

wiak,

Wow, what serious post! Relax, Puppy is meant to be fun :)

I'm going to skip the non-fun part of your post, instead will only talk about 2 things:
wiak wrote:This forum is not about Puppy,
LOL. Tell that to bigpup.
wiak wrote:There seems to be renewed attempts to bolster traditional Puppy support in the form of "Let's make Puppy Great Again" propaganda
Let's try that with Firefox the web browser we all know and love. Firefox source is all open for everyone. Anyone can build their own copy of Firefox, take its code and embed it elsewhere, take bits and pieces and use it elsewhere, even to the point of implementing a new browser.

But try to brand and publish your particular build as the official Firefox and see what letter will land on your desk next week.

Or try telling people that Firefox is obsolete. That its market share has been falling, and that people are abandoning it in droves due to its unclear vision and its ignoring users feedback. Tell them that a new paradigm shift is needed: why not we take Chromium source, build it, and brand it as the new "Firefox". Proclaim this idea in their forum, and see what response you'd think you'd get.

---------------

Look, your ideas are mostly good. Go and do it. Build whatever you like. Take whatever you think is good, and improve upon it. If you don't like to contribute to Woof-CE, or Puppy, so be it. Nobody's demanding you that you have to.

There is no need to be so negative about Woof-CE and/or "official" Puppy. If they are really that bad, they will die. If they are obsolete and best left in the books of history, they will be.

If your creation is better, people will adopt it, no matter what the name is, no matter whether it is official or not. No "official" tag is needed to make your creation good or popular.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story of eglibc vs glibc. I'd just repeat the story for those who haven't heard it. Yes, this is the "glibc" as the "C library" used by all programs, that "GNU C library", that /lib/libc.so.6. Here it goes: long time ago, certain developers disagreed with the direction of how glibc went. They went on to create a fork called "eglibc". As time passed, the development on the real glibc became stagnant. All new work happened on "eglibc". You know what happened later? The original glibc was dropped, and "eglibc" was then re-branded as "glibc" (the official glibc).

It could happen to yours too.

I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the fruitful result of your project. But whatever happens, don't get too serious. We're all here to have fun. :)
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

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Lobster
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#174 Post by Lobster »

Dogs love acting, have you noticed? Even if the role is that of a
vegetable! Laughing (Poor thing!)
Poor thing indeed :D
That pic is not stir fry (who is a puppy) it is something someone else prepared.

On the Way to Puppy 9 (which does exist) trust me I am a Time Traveller, we (mostly me) are looking in strange places ...
for the first Puppy 8.1 which may be based on the two Woof-Ce BionicPups or then again ... who knows ...
what the past creates and the future generates
https://peace.fandom.com/wiki/Tmxxine_Linux

... and now back to the real dogs ...
http://wikka.puppylinux.com/PuppyVersionSuperseded
http://puppylinux.com/family-tree.html
Last edited by Lobster on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 09:25, edited 3 times in total.
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

wiak
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#175 Post by wiak »

jamesbond wrote: I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the fruitful result of your project. But whatever happens, don't get too serious. We're all here to have fun. :)
Me, no, not so serious James - not at all actually. Rather, I'm just making waves in my attempt to move the goalposts a bit, to open the doors more in acknowledgement of the diversity that this forum really now represents. For a long time here it was treated like some cardinal sin if anyone tried made any comment that suggested that Puppy needed to change or become outdated in shape and form, or to imply that this forum was no longer really a traditional Puppy-only forum (whether it should be or not is nothing to do with the reality of how it is).

I do think that woof/and-later-woof-CE was put together at BarryK's retirement from Puppy so that Puppy could be continued for a while, but as times and technologies change and advance so must all relevant distributions.

woof-CE provides a pattern for what we have come to expect of traditional Pups. However... being a somewhat static pattern with large complex not particularly modular scripts, those who have tried to impose a woof-CE-only strategy for Puppy development unwittingly perhaps have headed Puppy to stagnancy rather than to the fun and motivation inherent in flexible and fluid advance.

Nostalgia (and the familiarity that comes with old patterns of being) is a very powerful emotion but also a dangerous one in terms of keeping a distribution relevant and current.

I can only imagine that BarryK himself wanted to try new things but couldn't 'easily' do that with the already woof-forged set-in-mud Puppy.

So my feeling is that it was/is a mistake to regard woof-CE as the only way to build an 'official Puppy'; to insist that the way to improve Puppy is to push code alteration/tweaks to woof-CE github for consideration. That really is a bit of a monolith of an ivory tower (in practice) so the result is very low forum member involvement and very slow development aside from new recipes for when a new Debian or Ubuntu or sometimes Slackware distro comes out. I can't say that is fun, enticing or at all inclusive in terms of the interests and needs of the Puppy forum as a whole.

I do think a new type of Puppy will gradually appear, but not via woof-CE but rather from grass-roots community level (and quite likely nothing to do with me at all). The community has changed; as technology marches onwards, diversity increases and that is reflected not by woof-CE, but by this forum itself, despite the forum structure itself being utterly outdated in terms of the exposure it continues to give to Puppy at the expense of all the other newer, I dare say more creative developments going on. Effectively limiting the exposure of this forum's creativity in the name of nostalgia is a big mistake IMO - lack of exposure is not an encouragement for developers to keep going with their efforts and I'm pretty sure many of them have no inclination or interest in tinkering with woof-CE instead.

Yes, maybe a new forum would be better, as once indeed happened to a little distro called Damn Small Linux. Problem is, people don't really like changing where they meet and talk (otherwise the likes of Facebook would probably have collapsed long ago); successful forums need numbers, and this forum, through the contributions of all of us, has exactly that - but that is to do with the overall community called Murga Forum - it really is incorrect to think that is just about traditional Puppy Linux design in its woof-CE-captured form.

Nevertheless, I also can't help but wonder how 'healthy' this forum itself really is nowadays in terms of active new faces. Maybe statistics would tell us that there continues to be many guest lookers-on or even logins to look at Off-topic sections, for example, but active posters do seem to be more and more the same old faces, including my own.

But anyway, yes, I do hope something positive grows out of something here, though I certainly wouldn't put my own money on Puppy woof-CE itself as the likely place for the birth of some new, regenerated, Puppy Phoenix. However, nor do I believe that any central committee designed new Pup is likely to get anywhere either - rather, something better will simply eventually appear though only if enough open-minded and flexible people willing to develop and create are encouraged to hang around here.

wiak

wanderer
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#176 Post by wanderer »

hi all

dont forget the great diversity of creations on the puppy forum
see first post

i encourage everyone to post
their favorite/most interesting choices
for puppy inspired projects
on this thread

advertisement follows
now that fredx has solved the firefox issues for corepup
it is an even better choice for a minimal modular base

see you soon

wanderer

darry19662018
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Wiki Entry on buildsystems

#177 Post by darry19662018 »

Puppy Linux Wiki: [url]http://wikka.puppylinux.com/HomePage[/url]

[url]https://freemedia.neocities.org/[/url]

wiak
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#178 Post by wiak »

http://wikka.puppylinux.com/Buildsystems

Thanks darry, added link to first post; good that you are keeping up with it all!

wiak

wiak
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#179 Post by wiak »


Last edited by wiak on Fri 31 May 2019, 04:16, edited 1 time in total.

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aaaaa
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#180 Post by aaaaa »

Why is wiak such a crybaby?

If you look at that discussion, s451a already read it days ago,.He is well aware, nobody is forcing him to do what he is doing and you can't force people to do what they don't want to do.

We're all individuals, there are no groups or conspiracy theories, we all do what we want to do and nothing else.

PS: merging code was started months ago by only one individual, being a drama queen like wiak or musher0 doesn't help, in fact it does help to end all efforts.

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