alternative puppy build system

[wanderer]

http://smokey01.com/wanderer/


remember
to keep things organized
all the important stuff will be in the first post
always look here
for a complete overview
and the latest news


hi all

this thread is to develop an alternative to woof-ce
for the common man who cannot use woof-ce

it is not meant to replace or compete with woof-ce
the gurus who can use woof-ce
make great distros that are the equal of any on distrowatch

that said

s243a is developing a sophisticated and powerful variant
of woof-next that includes puppy tinycore and devuan elements

wanderer is developing
a very simple build system called delta
that uses tinycore as a base
since tinycore has the structure that he feels is most efficient
however this system is intended to use components
from any other system as well

the first iso delta-1.iso
has been posted on the repository on the first post

there is too much information on the thread to summarize it in this first post
so i would advise going to the end and working backwards

if there is anything that is in error in this post
please notify me by posting on this thread


have fun

wanderer

[wanderer]

hi all again

you know one time i moved everything in a puppy into the save folder
and that just left a core linked to the save folder

the puppy i will pick will be upupbb
which i like a lot

its pure woof-ce
cant say thats not puppy

and it wont be a remaster
it will be a new build system with a puppy base

i think i will look into that first
since the puppy internals will be up to date
and made by woof-ce

and it also will give an immediate iso to work with

wanderer

[wanderer]

so here is the plan

i have upupbb32 on a usb
i made a save folder on my hard drive which is an ext2 filesystem
i will move everything into the save folder on the hard drive
until there is only a core linked to the save file

i will then try to make modules from the components of upupbb32

and load them into the core-save file system selectively

the usb and hard drive
will be the only development environment i need

wanderer

[fredx181]

Subject description: oh god please help me

Oh, my God, you seem to be desperate.
Maybe ordinary people can help also , anyway, tell me if you think I could assist in someway

Fred

[bigpup]

May want to look at this.
Puppy build system alternative
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=116032

[wanderer]

thanks fredx and bigpup

bigpup

i got the idea from the thread you mentioned

fredx

you are not an ordinary man
you have already been of inestimable help
im sure i will be annoying you in the future

wanderer

[wanderer]

i have an old copy of puppy 217 on a usb
that has the save file on the usb
and the usb is writeable
that is also an important function to include

wanderer

[wanderer]

puppy linux is on a readonly fs on the usb

i want to change this so i made a usb with corepup
which is read-write

a little trial and error getting it to fully boot with upupbb

wanderer

[s243a]

puppy linux is on a readonly fs on the usb

i want to change this so i made a usb with corepup
which is read-write

a little trial and error getting it to fully boot with upupbb

wanderer

try using the boot option pmedia=usbhd.
http://wikka.puppylinux.com/BootParametersPuppy

Note that even when pmedia=usbflash, the usb drive is read/write. The difference is that when pmedia=usbflash the read-write layer is in ram.

[wanderer]

hi s243a

thanks for the help
you may be interested in this
the core will be only 2 megs
and it will be a minimal modular system

i managed to get it to boot using the corepup bootloader on the usb

now the usb is read-write

step 1 completed


wanderer

[wanderer]

now i will move everything from the main puppy sfs
to the save file
so everything is accessible without remastering

the main sfs file will be mounted but empty

the save file will be mounted but full

this will allow applications
to be moved deleted renamed modified etc
in the save file
as i said without remastering

wanderer

[wanderer]

ok now all the sfs files are on the hard drive

the only files on the usb are
the kernal
and initrd
and their supportive files

kernel 5.3 megs
initrd 2.5 megs

this will allow the sfs files to be modified easily

and the usb can be removed
since it is not mounted
and was only used as the loader

wanderer

[s243a]

ok now all the sfs files are on the hard drive

the only files on the usb are
the kernal
and initrd
and their supportive files

kernel 5.3 megs
initrd 2.5 megs

this will allow the sfs files to be modified easily

and the usb can be removed
since it is not mounted
and was only used as the loader

wanderer

If the intent here is to provide instructions some links to the components that you are including would be helpful.

[wiak]

Yes, wanderer. I think you would be best go follow the development model of having frequent releases if actual code rather than just describing successes/work you have achieved at home. Doesn't need any finished product - that's not important. We all learn and are interested in actual releases whether very skeleton or only part working or not yet working. That, I'd say, is the main problem corepup development has had. Tons of descriptive pages but hardly any releases until lately. Better to make regular alpha releases, or not comment or release at all until you are happy to do so. Most of us wouldn't want dozens of posts about a distro build without some alph releases to try out alongside reading your comments - that doesn't imply letting anyone else take over your work tho usually feedback and advice can help move code dev forwards quicker.

Wiak

[wanderer]

yes guys

i didnt notice i was using this as a blog

i will only post when i have things completed


thanks

wanderer

[s243a]

yes guys

i didnt notice i was using this as a blog

i will only post when i have things completed


thanks

wanderer

It does sound though as you have some things complged. For instance:

kernel 5.3 megs
initrd 2.5 megs

[wanderer]

hi s243a

at the risk of continuing to go on and on

i was just describing the components of the system
and how they fit together and could be manipulated

the point is to break the system into its component parts
make them into modules
and then make a system to reassemble them as desired

one of the the other things that will need to be done
as wiak noted on the other thread
is to make a script to build each component

ie by reverse engineering the components
break woof-ce into script pieces
that can be used to build a distro
stage by stage

then woof-ce will no longer be needed
and the distro will be able to be built and updated independently
however all the parts (at least in the beginning)
will be pure woof-ce puppy

using a premade distro like upupbb
is a way to do all this knowing that
all the components are complete and compatible
and you also have a complete build environment
set up to make that particular version

you only have to have the iso
to locate and examine the pieces
all the pieces we are talking about are in that distro

by breaking the task into small parts
you only have to work on the parts you select each time
and you make the task manageable

also you know it already works
so if it doesnt work after you manipulate it
you broke it

i have done this before
except the make and assemble scripts
but i didnt think it would be of any interest to the puppy community
until i read the alternative build system thread

i hope i havent gone on too long
but that is what i am doing

wanderer

[wiak]

sounds interesting, wanderer. As soon as you have even a small part doing anything (even just booting to commandline) I hope you will release that and make regular update releases thereafter, That would be an interesting build system attempt to follow since simple start makes everything easy to understand and I'm sure many people would learn a lot from that simple system being published and gradually updated. The end product is often less important than the learning process since learning and understanding such work, from basics to more polished release, in slow release cycle steps, helps create active participants for the future.

So please don't be shy and do release the very first component parts that manage to boot. A useful system is not expected at this stage - and actually as soon as you can successfully boot any Linux system it already becomes useful.

In fact, it would be good if you published the first components used in an attempt to boot (even if the boot failed). That way, you would no doubt get quick fix ideas that helped move things forward; only accept ideas that help you; it's your project, but definitely more useful community-wise if you release early and release each update you add to that.

wiak

[s243a]

hi s243a

at the risk of continuing to go on and on

i was just describing the components of the system
and how they fit together and could be manipulated

My understanding was that you have produced something concreate and without the pieces how can we follow your steps?

the point is to break the system into its component parts
make them into modules
and then make a system to reassemble them as desired

If your able to give us the size of the compoenents then you must have something tangable. Didn't you also say that you had a corepup that was being actively maintained by the tinycore community?

one of the the other things that will need to be done
as wiak noted on the other thread
is to make a script to build each component

You could perhaps write a script to strip an existing kernal (e.g. technosaurus zdrv cutter) or alternativly set the kernal configuration parameters so that they generate a smaller kernal (see stemsee's script, or miko's older script).

ie by reverse engineering the components
break woof-ce into script pieces
that can be used to build a distro
stage by stage

You can get individual packages for puppy components from WoofCE at:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... s-packages

these packages could be packaged into the tinycore package format.

i have done this before
except the make and assemble scripts
but i didnt think it would be of any interest to the puppy community
until i read the alternative build system thread

What happened to the results of this past effort?`

i hope i havent gone on too long
but that is what i am doing

wanderer

No need to apologize. The only thing is that if the tangible "steps" or "concrete results" are spread out over too many posts then it will be harder for other people to follow what you are doing and figure out how to get started either using or building a corepup.

[wanderer]

hi s243a and everyone

first to make it easy for everyone
i will put all important stuff in the first post

and note that i did this in the last posts

it would be nice if the woof-ce guys
would make a small simple script
to build a small simple puppy
that could be extended in stages
and post it on the forum
so non woof-ce guys
could make their own puppies
and learn the system
however i do not think that is going to happen

so

the only choice for us non woof-ce guys
is to make our own system to make puppies

this thread is an attempt to do this

there is however a silver lining to this problem
we can make a system that is more flexible and simple than woof-ce
that can be developed to expand the number of varieties of "real" puppies

this project will use components from all sources
so it can be a combination of all linux distros
and hopefully give us a way to unify some of our efforts

it will also be simple enough for anyone to understand and use
(with the help of gurus like fredx
to build the hard parts like his portable firefox)

since this is what i want to do
i will do it regardless
but i would appreciate any help i can get
and hope it will become a community project

i will now post all the important stuff in the first post

always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news

i appreciate everyone's interest and help

thanks again

wanderer