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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Fatdog64-802/801/800 Final [21 May 2019]
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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williams2

Joined: 14 Dec 2018
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon 27 May 2019, 21:23    Post subject:  

That can't be right. It must be a tmpfs file system, which should only use as much ram as it needs to hold the files. Bigger files, more ram used.
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williams2

Joined: 14 Dec 2018
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue 28 May 2019, 14:31    Post subject:  

rufwoof said:
Quote:
results in the same htop mem being shown as when a compressed fd64.sfs inside initrd

Space used in a tmpfs seems to show as cached memory.

You can demonstrate this by creating a file in the tmpfs. Then free shows the difference.
Code:
# free -wh
         cache
Mem: 1.4G
#
# dd if=/dev/zero bs=200M count=1 > dd.bin
#
# free -wh
          cache
Mem:  1.6G
#
# dd if=/dev/zero bs=400M count=1 > dd.bin
#
# free -wh
s       cache
Mem: 1.8G
#
# rm dd.bin
# free -wh
         cache
Mem: 1.4G
#

(Results edited to show only the relevant parts)
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3562

PostPosted: Tue 28 May 2019, 16:21    Post subject:  

I was booting with kernel boot parameter rootfstype=ramfs, which apparently caters for loading larger initrd's when memory might be limited.

On my 4GB system, where some of ram is used for graphics, Fatdog 8.2 boots fine without the rootfstype=ramfs i.e. is using tmpfs

Unlike ramfs that dynamically grows and will simply crash if all of ram is used, tmpfs is fixed in size, but can be manually resized. So it more gracefully 'fills up'. tmpfs can also use swap where ramfs doesn't.

For my usb frugal multi-session boot, with usb removed after bootup, so all changes are stored in ram, and optionally saved (re-attach usb and click Save Session desktop icon), I created a 16GB swap partition. I then resized /tmp, /aufs/pup_save and /aufs/pup_multi from 1.7GB to 8GB

I then created a 4GB file using dd and that created fine. I then attached the USB and ran a Save and it saved to a multi-session OK.

The only difference when using ramfs and tmpfs is that ramfs seems to hide some of shared memory. So it looks in htop like tmpfs is using more space, but in reality isn't.

Another thing I did note is that when ram is filled, the Fatdog warning is quite small, almost illegible.

(clickable thumbnail)


Seems to me that provided your ram is around 4 times the size of the fatdog initrd (with fd64.sfs contained within that), then booting without rootfstype=ramfs is the potentially more stable/better choice. With swap and resizing tmpfs space in effect to use swap, means that you can do more without the system crashing, and rather than just crashing/locking up you'll be prompted with warnings that potentially enables the session to be recovered/resumed. But on more ram limited systems, you may have to just use ramfs (as otherwise fatdog might not boot/fully-load).

This is what free and df -h looks like on my current boot, that has just finished saving the 4GB of changes to usb.



I've included the command I used for resizing in that shot
mount -o remount,size=4G /tmp (and /aufs/pup_multi and /aufs/pup_save). Not sure whether each/all of those needs resizing, I just opted to arbitrarily resize those three).

Pretty great IMO that you can boot multi-session usb, remove the usb after having booted, and set things up such that even under heavy usage the system will still continue working ok and potentially still save changes to the usb if you so desire.

PS. For swap I created a partition in gparted (in my case that was sdb2 and I set its size to 16GB), set it to linux-swap format and added
/dev/sdb2 swap swap defaults 0 0
to /etc/fstab (and after a reboot that swap partition was available).

PPS. Having created a 4GB file using dd if=/dev/urandom of=bigfile bs=1M count=4096 ... and then having saved that to a usb based multi-session save file, I opted to delete that 4GB multi-save file (I didn't try rebooting to see if it 'loaded') as I suspect it wouldn't boot/load, at least not without the resizing of tmpfs already having been made.

EDIT: extended the above to use swap encryption ... by adding to /etc/rc.d/rc.local (my swap partition is sdb2)
Code:
cryptsetup open --type plain --key-file /dev/urandom /dev/sdb2 encswap
mkswap /dev/mapper/encswap
swapon /dev/mapper/encswap

mount -o remount,size=16G /aufs/pup_save
mount -o remount,size=16G /tmp

First time that was booted I did have to enter a uppercase YES to a boot prompt, thereafter subsequent boots just ran through without needing to repeat that.

_________________
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Fatdog multi-session usb

echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3562

PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 07:12    Post subject: Run Fatdog in (mostly) encrypted swap  

Testing Fatdog where it's mostly runs in (out of) encrypted swap

Booted frugally using usb multisession, using tmpfs (no rootfstype=ramfs kernel boot parameter) and where a 16GB encrypted HDD swap partition is used) along with /tmp and /aufs/pup_save are both resized to match that 16GB of available space).

After more usual booting/usage (chrome browser etc.) my Memory utilisation looks like ... (clickable thumbnails).


If I shift things into encrypted swap, by creating a 15GB file within /root, it looks like this.


Delete that 15GB file so as to release that 'memory' space and it looks like


Works, but initially is sluggish as things are swapped back out of encrypted swap again into the now free real ram space, but thereafter settles and pretty much runs as 'normal'. By the time it has 're-settled' to a level where things are running pretty much lightening quick again, it looks like ...



which, excluding the swap, is much the same as had the system just been booted with ramfs (with ramfs boot my system uses around 530MB of htop mem, whereas in that last image 447MB of htop ram is being used).

Conclusion is that it is still usable when run that way, providing you are prepared to accept some sluggishness for a while whilst being set up and things (swap/memory) are rebalanced again. At least that is the case on my 4GB ram system. A rather novel/different way to run Fatdog. And that's all with the usb (that stores the boot, OS, save files) unplugged after having booted Smile

Can't see much in the way of real world benefit however. If I boot using ramfs then typically htop mem shows around 500MB used. Boot using tmpfs and that doubles to around 1GB used. But the reality is they're both the same, just that ramfs doesn't show around 500MB of 'shared' - where that shared area will never be released. The above just in effect transfers that from being shown as being in ram space to being in swap space. So no real benefit.

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Fatdog multi-session usb

echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3367
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 02 Jun 2019, 08:42    Post subject:  

Thank you all for interesting experiment and notes.

I'd just add:
1. Why we use ramfs by default in Fatdog: http://www.lightofdawn.org/blog/?viewDetailed=00128 - to be able to load the (growing) on lower RAM systems.

2. Correct, using tmpfs makes the basesfs swappable and thus works better under memory pressure.

rufwoof: Re your link: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1028719#1028719. I'm not very clear on your suggestion, since Fatdog already pops up a dialog to insert the device before you save a session?

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Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13.
Contributed Fatdog64 packages thread.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 5355
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2019, 14:13    Post subject: Armour Paint  

There is a new 3d paint program available --> sources to be compiled on windows, linux, mac OS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk9OOP4DmoU

https://armorpaint.org/

Quote:
ArmorPaint is designed from scratch to run completely on the GPU. This results in a smooth 4K painting experience even on a medium-power integrated hardware. Up to 16K texture painting is seamless using a high-end graphics card.


For the high end 16k texture a nvidia 1060 graphics card is recommended
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jake29

Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 01:13    Post subject: Multi-monitor FAQ entry  

Hi all. I recently discovered a useful command that might be of value for those with multi-monitor setups. Adding '--primary' to the lxrandr-autostart in /root/startup allows you to control on which monitor apps launch.

Example:
Code:
xrandr --output HDMI1 --primary --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --output eDP1 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 59.99 --left-of HDMI1

I wonder if it would be worth adding a small entry to the Fatdog64 FAQ regarding multi-monitors including this command?
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 03:50    Post subject: Re: Multi-monitor FAQ entry  

jake29 wrote:
Hi all. I recently discovered a useful command that might be of value for those with multi-monitor setups. Adding '--primary' to the lxrandr-autostart in /root/startup allows you to control on which monitor apps launch.

Example:
Code:
xrandr --output HDMI1 --primary --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --output eDP1 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 59.99 --left-of HDMI1

I wonder if it would be worth adding a small entry to the Fatdog64 FAQ regarding multi-monitors including this command?


Hi Jake,

I sometimes use Fatdog on one of my multiple (dual) screen setups (or with a laptop), and isn't "Zarfy" one of the applications included in Fatdog? I seem to remember it is. When I've set Zarfy before, it asks you to set the "primary" monitor, and when I click & set that, programs first open there on that designated "primary" monitor. and from that point forward, they always do.

If I'm remembering this wrong, apologies, as I can't check this until later on tonight. Plus, using so many different pups & ddogs along with Fatdog...well, I ain't a youngster anymore so things tend to blur across my aging mind with increasing ease Confused
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3562

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 05:23    Post subject:  

Can't see a 'set primary' in Fatdog's Zarfy myself, but perhaps that might be because I've only the one monitor (laptop).
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s.png


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Fatdog multi-session usb

echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 5355
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 12:53    Post subject: KRITA 4.2.1  

There's a new stable version of KRITA -->
https://download.kde.org/stable/krita/4.2.1/krita-4.2.1-x86_64.appimage
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jake29

Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 14:37    Post subject:  

@belham2, @rufwoof - There are two apps included in Fatdog64 for managing multiple monitors. Zarfy and LXRandR. I have gotten into the habit of only using the latter. Changing between them has created issues for me in the past.
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beau_tox

Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Posts: 40
Location: Sacramento CA

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 18:09    Post subject: Goggle Chrome install 802 [SOLVED]
Subject description: FD802 Goggle Chrome failed to install GTK+3
 

hi,

I have been using FD721 for years. Decided to give FD802 a try.

Took about an hour to get Seamonkey up and running with Youtube.

When I attempted to get Goggle Chome, I got error message

"Failed to install GTK+3"

Thanks,

==============


Needed to Update gslapt before finding gtk3
install gtk3 was ok

Goggle Chrome install ok

Watching Netflix on Chrome

thanks for the help,

_________________
Fatdog64 802
Frugal install to 8 Gbyte SDHC with savefile
Zotac AD03 BlueRay AMD E350 (1.6 GHz Dual Core) ATI Radeon HD 6310 GPU
8 GB RAM, Diskless

Last edited by beau_tox on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 21:00; edited 3 times in total
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jake29

Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 18:24    Post subject: Re: Goggle Chrome install 802
Subject description: FD802 Goggle Chrome failed to install GTK+3
 

beau_tox wrote:
hi,

I have been using FD721 for years. Decided to give FD802 a try.

Took about an hour to get Seamonkey up and running with Youtube.

When I attempted to get Goggle Chome, I got error message

"Failed to install GTK+3"

Search Gslapt Package Manager (under Setup) for GTK3. The 64bit version is enough.
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3562

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2019, 08:09    Post subject: tui (text user interface)  

I primarily use tilda (I like how F1 toggles it being shown/hidden i.e. very quick access to 'terminal') for my terminal/tui (text user interface) and have it set to pre-load a number of tabs at startup. I've just added iftop to that set - that dynamically shows current network connections (compiled using a download from github as its not in the fatdog repo).


(clickable thumbnail)

I've also changed my first tab, my MENU option (tput based) to add a bit of Fatdog ASCII text ...


The other tabs are for hashbang, that I use to ssh into and run mutt (email) and irssi (irc) [I also use hashbang as a socks proxy i.e. optionally route all http traffic].



A reddit tab for reddit


Calcurse for calendar/diary/todo


A weather tab that uses curl to wttr.in to show my local weather report


mc for file manager and text editing




And in addition to iftop that's just been added I also have a bmon for network activity


htop for system activity


ncdu for disk usage


and alsamixer


I've installed and I'm using xdotool to automatically load up all of those tilda tabs at startup, so they're all ready from the get-go.

_________________
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Fatdog multi-session usb

echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh
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proebler

Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 154
Location: TAS

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2019, 08:07    Post subject:
Subject description: Gnumeric 1.12.44 not working properly
 

Gnumeric 1.12.44 as installed through the package manager, is not working properly.
Preferences are not kept and in the Standard and Format tool bars many of the button icons are missing.
I did not test further, instead reverted back to version 1.10.17, which works ok.
regards
proebler
Running FD64-802 on Acer C720 [Chromebook]
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