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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Suggestion for the Community Edition
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nic2109

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2007, 14:06    Post subject:  Suggestion for the Community Edition
Subject description: Could we please have an incremental back-up program?
 

Forgive me if there is one already - and please point out where it is, too! If I'm right off-track then let me know and I'll delete this post.

I feel that an essential part of any set-up is a proper back-up prgram that allows you to schedule a sequence of full and incremental backups easily without getting into the complexity of DIY crontab.

If we want to be taken seriously - which we do - in advocating Puppy as the best/only distro you need, then it would be marvellous if this were there ready to run out of the box (so to speak).

I know that for many users the file sizes are small so simple copies can be taken, but as soon as multi-media support is included then everything changes (i.e. gets H U G E) and a different backup aproach becomes a real necessity. We want people to use Puppy as their main/only setup, so shouldn't let them down in this important respect.
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5650
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2007, 18:11    Post subject:  

There is a small backup program called puppybackup. Maybe it is just too simple for your needs? But if it got the basic and you miss some extra features, please give your vote, and I'll put it in the wishlist for version 3.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10975
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GeoffS

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 04:49    Post subject:  

zigbert
I wasn't going to raise this just yet but as somebody else has - well I agree with nic2109.
Your backup is OK for me these days, combined with the mirror function it does all I need.
However an incremental backup should do a bit more.
(a) Check for ANY changes in files, change of date, change of length, change of permissions etc.
(b) At scheduled intervals (weekly, monthly etc) automatically do a total backup.
(c) Optionally provide the user with a list of what it is going to backup before it does the backup. This helps to avoid errors such as a huge file being backed up and blowing storage.
A few more things for the wish-list Laughing Maybe you have already thought of them.
Cheers
Geoff
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5650
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 13:39    Post subject:  

Thanks for suggestions Exclamation

What do you mean when you say 'total backup'. What more than 'backup'?
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puppyfan12


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 14:54    Post subject:  

I haven't tried that backup utility yet (it's the first time I've seen it). It looks really nice though zigburt. Is it an rsync frontend?
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 16:25    Post subject: Re: Suggestion for the Community Edition
Subject description: Could we please have an incremental back-up program?
 

Here are my thoughts:
nic2109 wrote:
I know that for many users the file sizes are small so simple copies can be taken.
I think you hit the nail in the head.

- For most users what's included in the Live CD is sufficient.
- Users that require more functionality can install the extra aplication required.
- If a very small application with a full featureset can be found, I am sure that Barry will consider it.

Puppy is being taken seriously because of that philosophy with most of the applicaitons. (e.g. Abiword/gnumeric instead of OpenOffice).

To be taken seriously you don't need the big full featured applications, but you need to provide them as an alternative wherever it makes sense.

Everyone has their "must have" application. Maybe for you it is the incremental backup but for a liveCD as Puppy it does not make sense to include them all.

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http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48 Covering my Linux How-to
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GeoffS

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 16:27    Post subject:  

zigbert
"total backup" as opposed to an "incremental backup". The way your program runs it creates an incremental backup after the first one and that is good.
Incremental backups are fine until you have to restore the entire file structure due to a disk crash or similar event. Then you have to restore ALL the backup files. That is OK for a week (the most you will have to restore is 7 files), a month can be a real pain and anything more almost becomes impractical.
I would normally use a weekly cycle.
Looking forward to seeing the new releases Very Happy
Geoff
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5650
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 16:49    Post subject:  

GeoffS wrote:
Incremental backups are fine until you have to restore the entire file structure due to a disk crash or similar event. Then you have to restore ALL the backup files. That is OK for a week (the most you will have to restore is 7 files), a month can be a real pain and anything more almost becomes impractical.
If you use Mirror function it would be easy to restore ALL datas.

Quote:
Looking forward to seeing the new releases Very Happy
Well, it will be there in some minutes. Very Happy

Rarsa wrote:
Here are my thoughts:
nic2109 wrote:
I know that for many users the file sizes are small so simple copies can be taken.
I think you hit the nail in the head.
Thank you, Rarsa. I think you hit the nail in the head. Wink

puppyfan12 wrote:
Is it an rsync frontend?
No, it's no gui. It's a simple combination of find, diff, cp, cdrecord and growisofs.
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5650
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 17:46    Post subject:  

GeoffS: I'm not really getting you, but wouldn't profiles help. One profile to run each day, and another to run weekly..... Confused
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GeoffS

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 01:59    Post subject:  

zigbert
mirrors - well um yes but not quite Very Happy Mirroring is fine if it is an entire directory structure that you are backing up. However that is not always the case. I frequently have directories that are very large but only occassionally changed. These I will keep a totally separate copy of and will exclude them from any regular backup thus saving time and space. A mirror should be the entire structure.

profiles - yes they would do however the user would need to remember to use the 'total' profile once a week/month whatever. Also I'm not sure how you would get the 'daily' profile linked to the 'weekly' profile so that it would know what to backup. One method used for incremental backup is for the backup program to keep a log of what it backs up complete with relevant file properties. This is compared with the current file state(s) and a decision made as to whether to back it up. This log has to be related to a particular profile so I'm not sure how you would connect this to another profile.
I can see your problem - you have used a different philosophy for creating an incremental backup just using the modification date (I think). A suggestion that comes to mind - a box you tick that resets the 'start date' to the earliest possible date just for this backup. Now, if the program 'ticked the box' every seventh day it was run Very Happy
You can probably think of a thousand reasons why it wouldn't work Sad
Hope to keep you thinking Very Happy
Geoff
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5650
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 02:55    Post subject:  

Thank you for thinking along. Razz

Quote:
profiles - yes they would do however the user would need to remember to use the 'total' profile once a week/month whatever. Also I'm not sure how you would get the 'daily' profile linked to the 'weekly' profile so that it would know what to backup.
If each profile has a unique configfile, the date of last backup will be different. The config file for daily profile saves last date it is ran - (Yesterday). The config file for weekly profile saves last date it is ran - (last Saturday). Confused
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GeoffS

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 03:26    Post subject:  

Yes, that was why I came up with 'tick the box' idea re-setting the start date.
Geoff
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