the delta project

[s243a]

I added some extra formatting here:

Wanderer,

I know that what I am asking for is time consuming and difficult. But it is necessary if your intention is something other than just increasing your number of posts. On some other Forums that will get you 'merit badges' and higher standing, maybe more privileges. On this Forum it does nothing beyond taking up space. It is necessary if, as you've stated, your intention is to provide

"a project
that will build a distro that anyone
with even the simplest level of knowledge
can use understand and develop
the only entry level skill needed is to be able to read English".

You are familiar with tiny core. We are not. For us --anyone-- to implement a corepup, even if you re-brand it, we have to know how to proceed. We need in one place a RECIPE.

Step 1. Do this.
Step 2. Do this....
Step ? Do this.

Reboot your computer into delta or corepup or whatever.

The RECIPE could be a GUI. Or it could be build-script containing #non-executable comments/Instructions/Alternative Choices#. Or just the text contained in a post immediately brought to the attention of a potential user.

Both Puppy and TinyCore are modular. But the names and perhaps purposes of their modules differ. How? Perhaps as an Introduction to that RECIPE --but in any event linked to from your first post-- explain the purpose of tinycore's modules: what they contain, do, and how they are put to use.

and I also added some extra formatting here:

yes greengeek i have not seen that happen yet

you might try loading xorg

i dont know if it is loaded in coreplus or not

or of course go to the tinycore forum and ask

wanderer

Most people here might not want to (or have the time to) invest a significant amount of time learning how tinycore works by either going to another forum or reading a book. In order to get more puppy users interested in tiny core variants of puppy that rely heavily on how tiny core works, it would be helpful to try to explain (in a concise manner) some key differences in said tiny core system vs puppy. This doesn't mean that people won't go to the tinycore forum or read a book on tinycore but if there is a more gentle introduction then many more people will invest time in learning about your systems.

[s243a]

hi tallboy

the only iso you want is delta-1.iso

the others are for corepup and tinycore
but i did not want to delete them because someone may still want them

however you make a good point
i think i will since they are confusing to have there

wanderer

I"m not sure if you deleted your old isos or not but it might be good to have them somewhere in case people want to know how your older systems work.

[wanderer]

hi guys i really appreciate your input and support

i am writing a howto
that will include all the information
needed to participate in this project

there may be still some need to go to the tincore forum
if the problem is obscure or complex
but the howto should be generally comprehensive

the howto will evolve over time to include
whatever we find is needed

corepup is not needed
since this is just an expanded version of that project
and i dont want to confuse anyone

this system has the capability
of being the simplest and most flexible build system we can find
and that is why i choose it

like i said it will only consist of

1. the delta.iso

2. the howto

i will post the howto on the first post
as soon as it is a generally comprehensive draft

this will take a little time
and will always remain a work in progess
but i think its well worth the effort

i am working on both the howto and iso now
and will post as soon as it is ready
very soon

thanks again everyone

wanderer

[wiak]

this system has the capability
of being the simplest and most flexible build system we can find
and that is why i choose it

like i said it will only consist of

1. the delta.iso

2. the howto

It will be much better/more-flexible if you also include a build script for any iso made, wanderer An iso becomes stale relatively quickly, build-scripts tend to remain useful longterm and are easy to tweak (if scripts kept simple and not become a messy spaghetti junction). An iso only provides a one-man perspective on what should be included (and package managers always allow users to add more later anyway). So hopefully you will work on a script for making the iso rather than just starting up tinycore and manually adding what you like to that and giving away the resultant iso. A scripted iso build system solution makes it more than just using tinycore.

wiak

[wanderer]

hi wiak

yes the master script
(part of the howto)
(made up of small simple subscripts)
will build a new iso from parts you choose

wanderer

[darry19662018]

Wanderer put your old ones in a folder something like outdated, old etc.

[wanderer]

hi darry

good idea will put the old corepup stuff in its own folder

wanderer

[wanderer]

hi all

i have posted an updated howto
on the 1st post

wanderer

[keniv]

I thought I would try this as I liked the concept. However I have no knowledge of tinycore. I have experience of using various puppys, dogs and even distros like ubuntu. I have therefor got some of the little bits of knowledge need to get them to run. I tried to boot delta using grub4dos (see below).

Code: Select all

title Delta-1 (sda1/1delta)
  root (hd0,0) 
  kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside
  initrd /1delta/boot/core.gz

I thought this might boot me to a desktop but it did not. The booting process stopped at

Code: Select all

input:ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse as/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input4

On pressing enter the boot process continued but not to a desktop. Instead it booted to

Code: Select all

tc@box:~$

I typed "poweroff" after this but got an error. "sudo poweroff" did work. I presume therefor you do not run as root like the puppys.
Can anybody point me in the right direction to boot this to a desktop.

Regards,

Ken.

[wanderer]

hi keniv

thanks for trying this out

yes delta does not run as root like puppy
so you have to sudo many commands

further up on this thread is some info on booting from grub
but i only have knowledge of syslinux

post if you have any more questions

wanderer

[AndresC2]

hi keniv

change cde for tce

kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sda1/1delta/tce/ desktop=flwm_topside

look this example

title Corepup-7 icewm
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /Corepup-7/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-7/tce/ desktop=icewm waitusb=5
  initrd /Corepup-7/boot/core.gz

hi wanderer

good luck with delta project : ]

[wanderer]

hi andresc2

good to hear from you

thanks for all your help

wanderer

[keniv]

@andresc2

change cde for tce

I have a frugal install. 1delta contains only two directories i.e. boot and cde. Boot contains isolinux, core.gz and vmlinuz. I am booting with grub4dos so don't need isolinux. cde contains one directory i.e optional which contains the *tcz files. Do you mean me to rename cde to tce then make the change in grub. If so I am not sure what difference this would make. However, on the kernel line

Code: Select all

kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside

I don't think the path to desktop=flwm_topside looks correct. Instead of

Code: Select all

showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside

should it not be

Code: Select all

showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/optional desktop=flwm_topside

I will try this and report back.

Regards,

Ken.

[keniv]

Well I was wrong as changing cde to tce allowed me to boot to a desktop. However, I set the date and time then tried to shutdown and make a backup (I assume this is the equivalent of a save file). This failed with an error. I could only shutdown by electing to exit to the command prompt then

Code: Select all

sudo poweroff

Can I take it that I first have to make a cable connection before I can download what I need to get wifi working? I am already beginning to think that if tinycore is the basis of this project then it will definitely not be for everybody. It will be for tinycore or perhaps linux experts and that would not include me.

Regards,

Ken.

[fredx181]

@keniv

I think the trick is to make the path tce=sda1...., instead of cde=sda1....
(assuming that you extract the ISO content in sda1/1delta, I think you did that)
So probably then this should work for your setup:

Code: Select all

title Deltapup on sda1
root (hd0,0)
kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside
initrd /1delta/boot/core.gz

@wanderer, great work !! only 18MB ! works ok booting to the desktop.

EDIT: @keniv , messages crossed, I see you found already changing cde to tce
EDIT2:

Can I take it that I first have to make a cable connection before I can download what I need to get wifi working? I am already beginning to think that if tinycore is the basis of this project then it will definitely not be for everybody. It will be for tinycore or perhaps linux experts and that would not include me.

Yes, you got a point, of course a very small distro is nice, but functionality and being user-friendly is important too.

Fred

[wanderer]

hi all

thanks for your interest and support

at this stage delta (tinycore)
has a significant learning curve
and has limited functionality

that is not acceptable for this project
since it strives to be as simple as possible
and completely functional

over time we will reduce the the learning curve
and increase the functionality

tinycore can produce a fully functional distro now
(with a learning curve)
but i wanted to start out with the smallest iso
that still has x and wired internet

if you want wifi internet and more desktops now
you can use coreplus 9 for the time being

it may be better for some
to simply read along as this project progresses
rather than become frustrated
with issues that will eventually be resolved

i apologize for being so slow
but i have other obligations that i must attend to as well
however slowly i will get things done
i am in this for the long term
since this is my hobby

however i do appreciate
any help or input

thanks again everyone
will post some updates soon

wanderer

[keniv]

@ wanderer

if you want wifi internet and more desktops now
you can use coreplus 9 for the time being

it may be better for some
to simply read along as this project progresses
rather than become frustrated
with issues that will eventually be resolved

I think this might be aimed at me since I believe I am the only person to mention "wifi". It was not my intention to criticise anybody who is attempting to do something I could not do myself. However, as I have said, what drew me to this project was that it was for everybody. The first part was the 18MB iso which you uploaded which as It turns out it not for everybody. I appreciate that it will take both time and effort from experts to get this to work properly. In this respect it is no different to the pups etc. I expect you will also need "everybodies" to test it. I do not have any expertise but I thought I could be an everybody. Based on your initial post I thought the 18MB iso could be tested by an "everybody" and in this respect after my attemps to get it to boot as an "everybody" I made the comment that I did not consider that this was for "everybody"

however i do appreciate
any help or input

I'm not sure you really want input from "everybodies" yet.
I wish you success with this project.

Regards,

Ken.

[keniv]

@fredx181
Hi Fred,
Thanks for your comments and trying to help me with my boot code problem. I'm still not sure why changing the directory name was necessary but it did work. I did try to set up a cable network. I can get eth0, network mask and servers but I don't know how to set the rest up manually. May may try to fiddle with it for a little longer but I think it's beyond my abilities.

Regards,

Ken.

[wanderer]

hi keniv and everyone

my comments about wifi were not directed to you
this has been a problem for everyone including me

and at this time this project is totally unsatisfactory
concerning it mission

it is not simple and it is not fully functional

but i am sure that over time
i will be able to make it into what it is supposed to be
primarily because of the efficiency and flexibility of its base

you have been very helpful
it seems a big problem for many people is with grub
(that i know nothing about and do not use)
and also wifi

solutions for both will be figured out

there are also other issues that i am aware of
because i have been playing with this system for a while

however this is a work in progress
and a hobby of mine
so i will just keep plodding along

if you read the thread occasionally
and play with things if you have the inclination
you will soon figure it out
since it is really very simple
once you get over some of its quirks

and once again i apologize for my slowness
but i have other obligations i must attend to

i do really appreciate all the input and support
and like it said it is far more helpful than you think

will post again soon
when i have the next step finished

regards

wanderer

[keniv]

hi keniv and everyone

my comments about wifi were not directed to you
this has been a problem for everyone including me

Ah! OK I see, I understand this now. I thought it was supposed to work in delta-1 but it seems not. I'm quite pleased now, that with help, I got it to boot to a desktop. I'm also quite impressed that an 18MB distro boots to a desktop.

will post again soon
when i have the next step finished

I'll try again when you post your update.

Regards,

Ken.