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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
How to choose the right puppy for old Dell 1012 Netbook?
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ThorPup

Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 02:21    Post subject:  How to choose the right puppy for old Dell 1012 Netbook?  

I have been playing with Tahrpup from a usb drive running on a Dell netbook with 1gig of ram. I want to tun a full install on the disk because honestly that pc never worked right with win7.
I tried Bionicpup32 and it looks slick, but the computer felt slower with Bionic vs Thar.

Does Bionic take more resources and thus run slower? Is there something to optimize?
Ir is this little PC only good enough for older puppy systems?
Also would upgrading to 2 gig help? It would only be $9 from amazon.
Thsnks.
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LNSmith


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 77
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 04:40    Post subject: How to choose the right puppy for old Dell 1012 Netbook?
Subject description: Running the puppy on older laptops
 

First - buy as much RAM as you can stuff into your machine. I have several Dell laptops (600M, 5150, 8600) that run Stretch Puppy. Generally these have (about) 1.6GHz single-core processors. I can't remember the details, but I ran some version (or other) of Puppy on all these machines. Perhaps 5.2.x At that time I had 256M on some laptops, 512M on others. Increasing the memory to 2GB gave a noticeable improvement. I can easily run Tahr-Pup on these.

Note that I do very little "real" computing. I watch You-Tube videos while I write text (or read documents). The time to boot (or run) Pale-Moon takes about 8 seconds. If you want to do "real" computing you will need to make your own evaluation.

In terms of buying RAM from eBay, I got mixed results and for that you may understand a number of cards I bought came with stuck bits. I think I probably bought 11 SoDIMM cards for 4 machines, so I experiences a failure rate of 3/11 cards. I bought cards from different suppliers but always Kingston brand.

I bought a DELL 8600 (I already had one 8600) with a faulty keyboard from eBay. I added an extension hub, a keyboard, mouse and thumb-drive memory. The laptop itself cost me AU$17.50 - so my risk was small if "the experiment" failed. The result: I run Stretch Pup or TahrPup on this computer easily. I think the 8600 system was built in 2005.

What else can I say? AbiWord is (in my view) a disaster.

All the best with your experiment.
I would like to read your final assessment of Puppy + Netbook.

Best wishes from Australia!

LNS
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5659
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 07:02    Post subject:  

Hallo, ThorPup. And to the 'kennels'!

A couple I would recommend trying:-

Mikeslr's 'Slacko 5.7.2 CE' [Community Edition]. Based on 01micko's 'classic' Slacko 570 - a rock-solid, very stable & reliable Puppy - Mike has taken this a bit further, and simply made it lighter, and brought it up-to-date. It runs well on an ancient Dell Inspiron, an original 1100 from 2002, with a P4.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115397

Or there's the 'Precise' Puppies. There's Barry's original:-

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=87712

.....and then there's jrb's 'Precise-light'. This is based on 571, but is fairly stripped-down; for instance, it doesn't come with a browser pre-installed, but there's a good selection of various Mozilla-based browsers and 'portables' that will do the job.

Slacko 5.7.2 and Precise-light are both based on older, well-liked, very stable Puppies, but have been brought right up to date with the newest Woof-CE build process and essential updates. Both should do exactly what you want.


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3546
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 10:11    Post subject:  

Hi ThorPup,

See this post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1023489#1023489. Do not do a Full install unless you absolutely have to or meet one of the few exceptions the post mentioned. Rather, if you can, follow LNSmith's advice and max out your RAM. But even with "only" 1 Gb of RAM, there are several Puppies which will perform with pleasurable responsiveness.

Mike Walsh has mentioned two: I'd add the following: radky's dpup-stretch, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=974590#974590 which has been reported to run well on old computers. Frankly, I like it more than the Slacko 5.7.2CE I build.

Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 kernel, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=982810#982810. However, after unpacking its ISO into a folder, I'd substitute one of rockedge's real-time kernels (vmlinuz & zdrv.sfs) for those from the ISO. You'll find the kernel packages here: http://rockedge.org/kernels/. Swapping kernels is easy --after the first time you do it. Smile Ask if you need help. I attribute most of the speed advantage in Slacko 5.7.2CE to its use of a real-time kernel.

Frugal installs run from a folder. They were actually developed to 'co-exist' with Windows so that you could 'keep Windows, run Puppy'. You never know when you'll need some program which only runs under Windows until, having wiped out you Windows OS, you've made it impossible to run the needed program.
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 899
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 20:44    Post subject:  

G'day ThorPup,

good luck with your experiments, and don't forget to consider upgrading your existing HDD for an SSD option too - makes a world of difference Smile:
Dell Inspiron 1100 and other "noughties" laptops

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12996
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 21:17    Post subject:  

Quote:
Dell 1012 Netbook

What processor is in it?

Frugal installs will run the fastest.
More of the OS loads into ram than a full install.
There are some settings to check affecting speed.
One is CPU Frequency Scaling.
What governor setting.

You say Bionicpup seems slower.
Give example of slower doing what?

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15556
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 23:07    Post subject:  

... this is for ye olde hardware and was released April 019
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1024458&sid=445b6a405f7c9833d55188cda5ad5e71#1024458

May be suitable ... Cool

price less Puppy
Free Kennels, Free OS. Free advice

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ThorPup

Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul 2019, 23:29    Post subject:  

Specs are:
Intel® AtomTM N450 Single Core, 1.66GHz, 512K L2 Cache
1GB,DDR2,800MHZ capped at 667Mhz bus
Intel® NM10 Express Chipset
10.1 inch WSVGA TrueLifeTM (1024 x 600) (available on selected configurations)
10.1 inch HD TrueLifeTM (1366 x 768) (available on selected configurations)
Not sure which screen resolution it has at the moment, but I think its the 1024x600

So the PC is about 10 years old, and unusable with windows 7 and I really don't care to be dual boot. Even if I needed to run something on windows, I doubt this thing could do it. Also I really want to learn Linux and transition away from Win and iOS. As long as the drive offers that capability it will be a crutch.

I will upgrade the ram per recommendation and probably look for a SSD for a cheap experiment down the road. It might make this netbook into a monster. Well probably not. Very Happy

After reading the frugal vs full I think I am ok with a frugal install.

Speed:
It felt like bionic took longer to load and get running. However, I have not fired up Thar in a few weeks, so I will compare this weekend and report back. Not sure I am up to the challenge of swapping kernels yet so will keep to stock isos.

So a new question. Lets assume I do a frugal install on the HDD and want to wipe Win7. What are the recommended partition sizes? I started reading through the Full install article and it showed a partition of the whole drive and then a creation of a linux swap partition. The recommended swap partition size was 2x the size of RAM, so if I update to 2 Gigs, a swap partition size of 6 gigs should be fine. Is there any advantage to making another partition that I can use as a save file? For instance if I load movies or music on the drive in a separate partition would they be available outside of frugal? I could then try other puppies and still access the movies and music.
Sorry if these are basic dumb questions. But I am a noob. Embarassed

Thank you.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12996
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 01:09    Post subject:  

For Puppy Linux one drive partition is all you need, using all of the drive, unless you want to have more partitions.
Formatted ext 3 or 4.
Flagged boot.

However, a swap partition of around 2 to 4 GB would be good to just have, if ever needed.

Some computers want a small (100MB) first partition as a boot partition, to be formatted fat32, and have the boot loader files on it.
Not sure if this is one of them. Probably not, unless it has UEFI bios. But, it probably has the old style bios.
So, not needed.

If you want to have a separate partition for data, that is never part of the Puppy install. That is OK.

A Puppy frugal install is all of the Puppy OS in a directory(folder). The rest of the partition it is on is free to use for anything else. Just needs free space in the partition to be able to adjust in space used.
Everything added, changed, adjusted, etc... is in that directory, but you always have the option to store stuff in other locations.
You can have many frugal installs of different Puppy versions all on the same partition.

Partitioning is up to you.
Minimum one big partition.
Or
One big partition and a swap partition.
Or
One big partition, a swap partition, and a large data only partition.

1GB or 2GB of memory is fine for Puppy Linux.
A frugal install of Puppy, booted to the desktop, will use around 200 to 300Mb of memory.
After that it is all about what program you are trying to run and what you are doing with it.
How many programs running at the same time.
None of the programs that come installed in Puppy are very big programs. Not a lot of ram used for them.
The only ram hungry one is the web browser.
Maybe 100 to 300 MB for that.
Example:
Bionicpup64 8.0 frugal install, running Pale Moon browser.
Ram usage 317MB total for everything.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5659
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 07:28    Post subject:  

@ ThorPup:-

Now we know your hardware specs, it would help narrow down the field even further if we had some idea of what you want to use the netbook for.

This would let us fine-tune the choice of Pups a wee bit better, y'see. Bigpup, bless 'im, always recommends the very newest Pups Smile ..... but some of us, like myself, know from experience that this isn't always the best course of action.

To clarify a point from bigpup's post above.....about the business of putting a frugal Pup inside a directory:-

It sounds crazy, I know. But Puppy's built-in bootloader config tool, Grub4DOS, is designed to search two layers deep when looking for Puppies to boot. In other words, it will look inside the main partition, find the directory with Puppy, then look inside the Puppy directory to find the initrd.gz (the compressed, virtual 'RAM-drive'), the main Puppy SFS file, and the vmlinuz - the kernel itself. Having found these, it can then boot Puppy.

-----------------------------

One further recommendation - and I have this running fine on an even older Dell laptop from 2002, with a Pentium 4 - and that's DPup 'Stretch'. Based on the current Debian 'stable' release, this thing will re-vitalize pretty much most old laptops/netbooks.....and radky's iteration of this is exceptionally well put together.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112125

This is the very machine mentioned in Puppyt's link, above.


Mike. Wink

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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 868
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 07:59    Post subject:  

(in part) wrote:
It sounds crazy, I know. But Puppy's built-in bootloader config tool, Grub4DOS, is designed to search two layers deep when looking for Puppies to boot.

As an example of what Mike Walsh said, here are part of a Grub4DOS menu.lst file , and the files of a Puppy in its directory.
Code:

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.9.4
#color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 4
default 0

title Puppy precise light 5.7.1 (sda1/PrecLight)
  find --set-root uuid () d58c24e4-7a41-4cb7-be6d-08c83a6e2105
kernel /PrecLight/vmlinuz  pdrv=d58c24e4-7a41-4cb7-be6d-08c83a6e2105 psubdir=/PrecLight pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck,nocopy
  initrd /PrecLight/initrd.gz

Code:
ls -l /mnt/home/PrecLight/
total 108580
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  1325898 May 22 09:51 initrd.gz
drwxr-xr-x 8 root root     4096 May 25 10:23 precisesave-may25
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 78774304 May 22 09:57 puppy_precise_light-5.7.1.sfs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  3574864 May 22 09:50 vmlinuz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 27488288 May 22 09:50 zdrv_precise_light-5.7.1.sfs

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3546
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 09:39    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
...It sounds crazy, I know. But Puppy's built-in bootloader config tool, Grub4DOS, is designed to search two layers deep when looking for Puppies to boot...Mike. Wink


There's code which can be edited to change that "limitation" so that Grub4dos will search 3rd or even lower directories. But, I've forgotten what it is or where I found it. As it is I use the limitation to my advantage. I create "backup" SaveFiles which I place in a 3rd level-down folder. Using sheldonisaac's menu.lst example, if a SaveFile was placed in sda1/PrecLight/Protect, on bootup precise-light would not offer to use that SaveFile. On the other hand, when two or more appropriately named SaveFiles are located at the 2nd level-down --for example /sda1/PrecLight/precisesave-apr14.4fs and /sda1/PrecLight/precisesave-jun05.4fs-- grub4dos will interrupt booting to enable you to choose which SaveFile or none to use.
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ThorPup

Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 10:41    Post subject:  

The use for this PC will be general browsing, Arduino programming and Linux learning. I would also like to set it up so I can easily save web articles I run across, which I find is awkward with the phone and kitchen PC. Probably a few other things down the road, including SDR and IOT, and this thing will probably struggle with the SDR stuff. I think most normal people would buy an iPad for this type of work Very Happy

I generally love the format of this little computer, it's just small enough to travel very well and when new would last 6 hours on batteries which made it the perfect travel video device for the kids. (now it's iPads) It's also cheap enough where I am not afraid of leaving it in the car.

Well memory upgrade will be here on Sunday. I will verify the HDD and order a SDD at some point.
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 868
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 10:51    Post subject:  

ThorPup (in part) wrote:
Well memory upgrade will be here on Sunday. I will verify the HDD and order a SDD at some point.
ThorPup, just an (unimportant?) FYI. Although I play around very occasionally with several little and big computers, I almost always use this Dell E6410 laptop. It has 4GB memory, i5 Intel processor, and a 128GB SSD.

Thanks to mikeslr for the info on 'hiding' a backed-up savefile or savefolder.

Sheldon

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3546
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 17:42    Post subject:  

Hi sheldonisaac,

Now that we know more about your computer and interests, I'd suggest trying two other Puppies. One is 8Geee's AtomicPup-XIX, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=943460#943460 which was specifically built with the Intel Atom before 2013 (N2600/N2800 is last CPU) in mind. 8Geee updated the original build last year and periodically advises about keeping it up to date. I leaned heavily on 8Geee's knowledge when building Slacko 5.7.2CE.

The other is mistfire's X-Slacko Slim 4.4r31, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=909819#909819 because of its many unique built in features. Read the opening post.
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