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Create Debian 9 (Stretch) minimal ISO similar to DebianDog
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AndresC2

Joined: 08 Jul 2017
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed 14 Aug 2019, 13:10    Post subject:  

hi! fred

https://wiki.debian.org/chroot

i uses this wiki tutorial for manual build Buster minimal with runit, jwm,xfe.

debootstrap does not install procps
debootstrap --include=procps

apt-get install init runit runit-init

all changes in ram are store now in /run/live/overlay/rw
df -h show this:
tmpfs 248M 70M 179M 29% /run/live/overlay

install linux headers and aufs-dkms is not necessary
but if you need it install aufs.

mount -t tmpfs -o "remount,size=90%" tmpfs /run/live/overlay "is ok"

umount /lib/live/mount/overlay is not necessary
umount /run/live/overlay is not necessary

with systemd ,runit and sysvinit-core
in reboot or power off show this
failed umount /run/live/medium

run well so far.

good luck!
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fredx181


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PostPosted: Sat 17 Aug 2019, 04:43    Post subject:  

Thanks for info Andres !
I will probably stick with aufs, don't like overlay very much, never tried runit, will do someday.

Fred

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fredx181


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PostPosted: Sat 17 Aug 2019, 04:47    Post subject:  

*** Updated mklive-stretch ***

Download (and make executable) then run 'mklive-stretch' script , from terminal e.g,
Code:
./mklive-stretch -gui

From partition (Linux filesystem formatted, e.g. ext3 or ext4) with at least 3GB free space.
This script can be used best from a 'Dog' based OS, see below for running from a Puppy OS (appimages, dependencies are included).

Changes and fixes:
- Major change is that there will be no extra .squashfs module included for Desktop configuration anymore in the 'live' folder (e.g. zz_openbox_lx-jwm_firefox.squashfs), it's merged now in the main 01-filesystem.squashfs. (when using one of the preset DE choices)

Appimages. For use on most modern Puppies (dependencies included), make executable before running:
32-bit appimage: mklive-stretch32
64-bit appimage: mklive-stretch64
Run e.g.:
Code:
./mklive-stretch32 -gui

From partition (Linux filesystem formatted, e.g. ext3 or ext4) with at least 3GB free space.

Fred

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wiak

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PostPosted: Sat 17 Aug 2019, 07:34    Post subject:  

AndresC2 wrote:
apt-get install init runit runit-init

all changes in ram are store now in /run/live/overlay/rw
df -h show this:
tmpfs 248M 70M 179M 29% /run/live/overlay


Hi AndresC2!

Good to hear you are now experimenting with runit and overlayfs outside of FirstRib builds! Smile

aufs does make some things easier though, it seems, such as sfsload on already booted system, though I've experimented prior to my FirstRib work with nested overlays that may provide a way to do that aufs kindof sfsload facility too. I'll publish about that more later, but taking a rest just now whilst tidying up FirstRib initramfs build.

I may one day (or may not) also take a look at using debootstrap debian build driven from FirstRib initramfs sometime, as an alternative boot option; I'm pretty sure it can be made to work since FirstRib WeeDog initramfs is pretty much agnostic distro-wise (no Puppy-type DISTROSPECS files and other such distro-unique complexities involved so FirstRib/WeeDog initramfs doesn't really need the root filesystem to be a Void Linux one).

I've also thought of studying how Fred does his openbox configurations since I like the way he does that setup and miss its convenience in my early WeeDog X builds (not that I've had time to try much in the way of WeeDog X desktop configs thus far - been too busy simply with the build scripts). And of course mklive-stretch itself is an interesting wrapper idea, which may or may not also be useful (conceptually at least) with WeeDog/FirstRib replacing debootstrap part internally for a similar gui frontent for Void Linux based build. However... truth is, I may never get round to trying any of these ideas - I tend to like simple non-graphical build scripts and time is too short and I already enjoy my XenialDog setup so much that such experiments would only be for additional fun really. Also, as I've said many times on this forum in the past, I've never really been interested in producing distros (preferring system-level programming or utility programming such as weX), so I'm kind of surprised at myself that I ever started FirstRib/WeeDog (I guess I was basically fed-up with github woof-CE "guardian-ship" responses, shutting my ideas out, and saying that I "don't really know what I'm doing" - oh the cheek of it hahaha - anyway, maybe I don't...).

runit is great though (and simple to use, powerful, and easy to understand)... but so is xbps package manager (up there in quality with debian's apt really).

Mind you, though I haven't a clue about systemd, I don't at the moment mind it - seems to work. I do worry, however, about the way it seems to be taking over more than a bit though in terms of dependencies and so on.

wiak

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fredx181


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PostPosted: Sat 17 Aug 2019, 14:38    Post subject:  

AndresC2 wrote:
apt-get install init runit runit-init


Doing that on my test install of Buster, it wants to remove Synaptic (see attached pic) which I want to keep (essential for me, use it a lot), same btw when trying to install sysvinit-core.
So in some way you are forced to boot with systemd, I don't like that, this is one of the reasons that I've made the switch to Devuan(Dog), btw, succesfully installed runit on Devuan and works well sofar I tested (but need to learn more about it, e.g. how to configure autologin)

EDIT: found out about autologin (as root) booting with runit, works for me editing /etc/sv/getty-tty1/run, and change last line to:
Code:
exec chpst -P getty --noclear -a root 38400 tty1 linux


Fred
2019-08-17-201424_693x545_scrot.png
 Description   Installing runit on Buster will remove Synaptic, why ?!!
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2019-08-17-201424_693x545_scrot.png


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fredx181


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PostPosted: Sat 17 Aug 2019, 17:06    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
And of course mklive-stretch itself is an interesting wrapper idea, which may or may not also be useful (conceptually at least)


That doesn't sound very nice to me (i've been working on it since 2 years and updated until now), but I may have misunderstood (or taking out of context) the intention of what you're saying, anyway I'm open for criticism or suggestions, btw.
About your Weedog project, I intent to do some testing (and probably then with the Openbox configuration similar as in Xenialdog) but at the moment it's too overwhelming for me to learn about it, perhaps later when I'm feeling better (having some (health) problems lately).

Fred

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stemsee

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PostPosted: Sat 17 Aug 2019, 19:26    Post subject:  

Why not let the script check partition type?

Code:
destpart=`echo $PWD | grep 'mnt' | cut -f3 -d'/'`
windest=`lsblk -pno FSTYPE,KNAME | grep -E '^([^ ]*fat)|(ntfs)' | grep $destpart`
[[ ! -z "$windest" ]] && yad --text "Change to a linux formatted partition" --timeout 4
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 18 Aug 2019, 19:23    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
wiak wrote:
And of course mklive-stretch itself is an interesting wrapper idea, which may or may not also be useful (conceptually at least)


That doesn't sound very nice to me (i've been working on it since 2 years and updated until now), but I may have misunderstood (or taking out of context) the intention of what you're saying, anyway I'm open for criticism or suggestions, btw


I don't actually understand your concern Fred. Void Linux doesn't provide any Void debootstrap program and pretty much all the projects we all undertake on here are wrapper scripts round something or other (weX being a wrapper around ffmpeg). For Void Linux, I've created build_firstrib_rootfs, as you know, which produces a root filesystem (as debootstrap does for Debian). Then it becomes a matter of adding new packages - in your mklive-stretch you use apt of course for that. In FirstRib WeeDog, I use Void's xbps and can do so in a chroot wrapper or at earler stage in a firstrib00.plug. None of these things I do are or were anything to do with mklive-stretch (which I have not studied at all or even looked at since the very earliest non-gui simple version - I had no personal interest in Stretch and the script, with gui components, became to complex for me to bother reading further back then - I'm not complaining about that btw, I understand why it became much more involved/complex in user-choice content) and everyone seems fine just building up their own desktop systems out of FirstRib components as things stand.

However, seems/seemed sensible to me to look at all existing community projects to see how they polish up their desktops, but unfortunately it is usually a little bit of work extracting window-manager configurations and so on from the likes of pre-built distros like Puppy (or most DebianDogs).

FirstRib on the otherhand, was created by me on purpose as a simple script solution to show others how to do things that otherwise seem to be guru-like/hidden-in-mystery/when-in-fact-pretty-simple - I want it to be not only open-source but also open to all to understand, hack, modify, remake as community wish.

One of the great distinguishing things about mklive-stretch, to me, was, being a script it better allows others to learn from and re-use ideas - but I for one would never consider forking it (why bother, it already exists and works!) - which doesn't mean that it might not have some useful yad extracts or whatever that could be usefully used elsewhere (I don't know, I haven't checked how modular/re-usable any of its component parts are - it is certainly nothing to do with Void Linux, so apt-get parts irrelevant and packages different anyway).

Summary: you have nothing to worry about (though what are you worrying about anyway? Must be a misunderstanding about what I was saying).


I've always said I hoped to create FirstRib build root filesystem scripts in different flavours (not just Void). In fact I even posted an early make Puppy flavour - but noted that Puppy package manager solutions were a big problem since needed a skeleton working Puppy before the package manager even works... pity. Anyway, I have no interest in re-inventing a Puppy.

Debian/Ubuntu, on the otherhand, is of wide interest throughout the Internet distro-building-community. I already know how to use debootstrap (tho most of my understanding of that comes not from anything related to DebianDog but rather from Will Haley tutorials). I am however, really, not at all interested in creating any kind of mkliive-stretch fork and if there was even the smallest chunk of code in there that looked useful I would always have asked permission to use and credited appropriately when used. I won't be using it anyway - I don't have time to study mklive-stretch code (and don't feel like doing so) - I do remember liking the first version because it was small and not much to read and taught a lot, but thereafter it became too much work to read for me.

I'm certainly not in any kind of competition, via FirstRib creations - now or in the future. I do however like to collaborate (its beneficial to all sides of a collaboration) and help out on things though. I certainly don't invent much by myself (but who does?). Most everything I understand, and create comes (in often tiny bits and pieces) from elsewhere - following lots of googling/research/reading-other-peoples-code-some-who-also-read-mine...). But no, it is fine by me to forget about mklive-stretch; I don't know why I even thought of it, except that it was the first relatively simple scripted build system presented on the forum, as far as I recollect.

Woof-CE, on the other hand, is a complex monster (mainly because it didn't have the advantage of a decent commandline driven package manager - and no good Puppy debootstrap program for it).

Of course, in WeeDog developments, based on FirstRib components, we will be using wrappers to add extra functionality to FirstRib Core scripts. Using wrappers is what we all do (weX, as I said in example, being a wrapper for various ffmpeg functionality). None of us can at all claim any ownership of the idea of wrapping other scripts - that would be a nonsense. And any actual subroutines (not readily known anyway from all over the Internet) will always be properly credited - I won't be stealing any chunks of someone elses original creations that took years for them to develop, if that's what you mistakenly imagine, and do please remember also that there are chunks (albeit not huge) of my 'own' code in all DebianDog systems. If you see any uncredited original creations of your own (etc) in FirstRib/WeeDog let me know and I'll remove or re-write them, or ask your permission/credit-them (though always please double check there are not thousands of examples of the same via unix.stackexchange, askubuntu, stackoverflow and so on).

I will certainly avoid any arguments over such matters. I still remember the situation where saintless (Toni) took exception to comparisons being made between MintDog (or whatever it was called) and XenialDog in terms of RAM usage. I was sadly involved in that simply because I was interested in understanding the RAM usage differences - Toni, on the otherhand, seemed to take it as a threat to what he seemed to consider as his work against your openbox variants. What a lot of nonsense that was; and I don't hesitate to call that out as an entirely 'stupid' form of jealousy/self-protection. Who cares. Certainly not me at all. I'm here to show how to do things, should anything I know not be known by others.

Certainly it is not nice for anyone to simply rip-off other peoples ideas without acknowledgement, but I can't see anyone being able to accuse me of doing that. It is not a matter of how many years something took to develop - if it was, none of us could develop anything. I've been working with Linux since Yggdrasil Linux in 1991 and Sun UNIX prior to that - so I'm not at all new to this and know very well that most algorithms (though not all) have been well known for a decade prior ,to that (though some gui type frontend wrappers, like YAD, are far more recent, and even aufs/overlayfs algorithm concepts have been around for multi-decades in some shape or form (SUN computers had a union-type filesystem very similar in form way back in the 1980s).

Anyway, waste of time thinking about this. Let people develop what they want - there is no reward in all of this beside food for our own pride, and best we forget that aspect of the work anyway. Actually, there is a reward for being more open and collaborative - we later benefit from the addtions and work of others - I, for example, am happy for rockedge and rufwoof to document their firstrib00.plug creations, for others, including me, to use (which internally contains their own freely-provided shell script code) desktop system creations; I have no personal interest, for sure, in developing polished X desktops so much prefer others to do that - and thanks to them alone for that good work.

EDIT: It suddenly struck me (since I was trully at a loss wondering what you found disagreeable about my previous post) that maybe you felt I was negatively criticising the design/quality of mklive-stretch itself. Oh no, not at all. As I've since said I have not in fact looked at mklive-stretch stretch since it added gui frontend and I'm not criticising that gui frontend at all either; it makes absolute sense to have that since gui provides convenience for all users to build systems (indeed a gui wrapper might be made for FirstRib once day, but I can't myself be bothered writing one so FirstRib users are expected to be commandline familiar - obviously if a gui frontend to any commandline utility is to be written it is nice to have exemplars done by others - that's why I thought of mklive-stretch, but I didn't mean I would rip it off or copy its look and feel and nor did I mean any attack of its design - not at all. I do openly attack woof-CE design though - sorry, but that is my technical opinion of woof-CE, despite how great Puppy itself has been over the years - and I particularly openly often attack the woof-CE steward/guardian system, and more since my own efforts to comment at woof-CE github have been abruptly insulted and marked as closed - seems to be one individual doing what they like up there and displaying an aura of superiority that in practice is a lot of self-promoting nonsense).

Sorry to hear you are not well at the moment, by the way, Fred. I've had a few bad times in the past year also, but am fine just now. As we get older, mortality and health become the only important issues. I hope to be around for a few more decades anyway, but still, I'm been getting lazy for a long while, was an utter accident I did not plan, that I started work on FirstRib/WeeDog, but I'm pretty sure anyway that it is my swan-song finale (I certainly hope so - I want to stop using all this precious time trying still to develop something useful for Linux - none of which is really needed by anyone!).

Actually, also sorry for mentioning FirstRib on this thread at all. It wasn't even sure what thread I was on - I only posted in response to what I read in AndresC2 post because he had been using FirstRib early on and asking questions for using it on Tiny Core Linux and of course runit is fundamental in FirstRib current since using Void Linux. I'll try to be more careful to keep my FirstRib-related thoughts to only FirstRib thread in future... my bad there.

wiak

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rockedge


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Aug 2019, 20:55    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
I want to stop using all this precious time trying still to develop something useful for Linux - none of which is really needed by anyone!


are you kidding? WeeDog and the FirstRib project are fantastic. WeeDog will now become the base OS for several ZoneMinder CCTV camera security and NVR systems.....completely outfitted with a Hiawatha webserver running PHP 7+ PERL and PYTHON. Using deep machine learning neural nets to do object and face recognition close to real time.

The fact one can set up a blank canvas OS and add just what is needed is keeping such systems lean and mean. I have also used the script that fredx181 has made and it also makes a great platform for similar systems but I have focused more on Ubuntu based OS builds due to the simple fact that the developers of ZoneMinder use Ubuntu for the dev platform....I think I get better results and faster leaner systems meaning more cameras more object/face detection with larger training data, using these super minimal systems.

Either way both you wiak and fredx181have made extremely useful scripts.....just that you know I appreciate the effort and time invested.......
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wiak

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PostPosted: Sun 18 Aug 2019, 21:17    Post subject:  

Oh don't worry rockedge, I think it is fair to say that Fred and I have collaborated to some extend on various things for years now and no reason has occurred for that not to continue. I only replied to AndresC2 post by accidentally stumbling on it when searching for a post of my own on run it. I recognised it was in some debiandog thread but didn't notice which one and only mentioned mklive-stretch because Anders was talking about Debian dogs in relation to runit.

When I say I hope its my swan-song, well its a pretty big lots to do swan-song, which I have every intention of supporting and developing utils for as long as anyone remains interested in it. I'm hoping that on the whole it doesn't need much input from me since its designed with hope anyone can tweak it and keep it usable long-term. My error really is to have talked about firstrib possible dev future in a debiandog thread - oops - accident, I wasn't thinking - really just replying out of interest about runit comment but should have taken my comment to firstrib thread and kept my thoughts about concept frontend GUI provided by mklive-script inside my head (they were just spoken out loud ponderings with no knowledge of what inside GUI frontend mklive-script anyway - I.e. unimportant ponderings of my own and unlikely to be followed up on in any way otherwise - not worth anyone's concern). Fact is it is usually easier to write frontend wrappers from scratch since core internals usually very different. Having said that, we all use chroot wrappers - the concept being old one long a established elsewhere.

I think now that Fred just misunderstood my comment as some kind of criticism of mklive-sretch, which it truly wasn't. That's an absolutely different system to firstrib, but with great and complete desktop build result. The only reason never use it is because I too use Ubuntu based Dog (xenialdog, which is also developed by Fred) because of Ubuntu apps availability (for my kids gaming needs...).

wiak

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stemsee

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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 00:51    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
wiak wrote:
And of course mklive-stretch itself is an interesting wrapper idea, which may or may not also be useful (conceptually at least)


That doesn't sound very nice to me (i've been working on it since 2 years and updated until now),

Fred

Hi all

Fred is spot on, btw. Your tone was not 'nice'. A certain arrogant judgmental edge came through uncomfortably....and here is why!
mklive-stretch is not an interesting wrapper 'idea' it is a working reality!!! Why make it seem like a non-working fantasy??

"may or may not be useful conceptually at least" ... (twice is a thing confirmed with God) The same belittling, ignoring the fact that it is in fact already useful not only conceptually but in reality!

The symantic and pragmatic implications of the linguistic choices we make when conveying thoughts and feelings are evident in the meta-linguistic features.

kind regards
stemsee
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wiak

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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 01:28    Post subject:  

stemsee wrote:
fredx181 wrote:
wiak wrote:
And of course mklive-stretch itself is an interesting wrapper idea, which may or may not also be useful (conceptually at least)


That doesn't sound very nice to me (i've been working on it since 2 years and updated until now),

Fred

Hi all

Fred is spot on, btw. Your tone was not 'nice'. A certain arrogant judgmental edge came through uncomfortably....and here is why!
mklive-stretch is not an interesting wrapper 'idea' it is a working reality!!! Why make it seem like a non-working fantasy??

"may or may not be useful conceptually at least" ... (twice is a thing confirmed with God) The same belittling, ignoring the fact that it is in fact already useful not only conceptually but in reality!

The symantic and pragmatic implications of the linguistic choices we make when conveying thoughts and feelings are evident in the meta-linguistic features.

kind regards
stemsee


Here they come, the useless moaning vultures. Let me repeat once and once more only: I was not meaning that mklive-stretch itself only a conceptually useful script - I was referring to how aspects of mklive-stretch script might be useful, at least conceptually, in a gui frontend for FirstRib, which does not use apt-get so beyond concept mklive-script is not useful for FirstRib at all, nor is it required. Fred is expert with yad and that skill is useful were it applied to FirstRib gui. Actually I admired mklive-stretch development - nothing new at all about wrapper script or using debootstrap or chroot for that matter, but it was a first on this forum where a developer wrote a script version of their development work that revealed the otherwise near-secret methologies buried inside their pre-configured isos. As someone who isn't particularly interested in polished iso products, but definitely interested in technical details of how things work, that was exciting move on Fred's part. Nothing to do with FirstRib scripts - which are not at all required or extracted from mklive-stretch or vice versa.

By the way, this further waste-of-time post is not for stemsee, who has just proved to me that he is yet another stirrer in the community. To stemsee all I have to reply is Shut-up.

The matter is now ended aside from the vultures who want to pick crumbs - no interest to me. No idea or understanding of Fred's 'concern' - he will have to explain that to you himself.

And to anyone else looking to complain, or stir things up, once side or the other, I have only that one thing as said to stemsee to say also. Bloody annoying shower.

I've spoken my part, and I await what Fred has to say now rather than concerning myself further with such idiotic and ignorant remarks of the likes of stemsee (I could write a list of some ot the other vultures similarly disposed - and so could Fred come to that, but I trust like me, he knows better than to pursue stirring nonsense, which would be a further meaningless waste of time and effort - let the stemsee-type vultures go and pick crumbs for their fun elsewhere and not disturb active project work trying to create divisions for their sick, jealous, amusements).

The following includes the couple of key "context" words missed out (i.e. with WeeDog/FirstRib) in the earlier shortened quote:

Quote:
And of course mklive-stretch itself is an interesting wrapper idea, which may or may not also be useful (conceptually at least) with WeeDog/FirstRib


and the statement, for me at least, is correct, so I stand by it. The concepts to be found may or may not be useful for FirstRib/WeeDog. I have no doubt at all they are useful for their designed Debian-live-based -system purpose, but I never said or meant to suggest in any way otherwise.

wiak

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stemsee

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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 03:41    Post subject:  

I have nothing against you Wiak, nothing at all. i did not resort to name calling; a vulture picks at a corpse, whereas a linguist picks at a corpus!

No one is perfect, therefore we all make mistakes (something the Nazis would not tolerate), they were heartless not saintless! Even the devil isn't saintless, because saints are real.

So attacking the critic instead of evaluating the criticism is Nazi-like!

No need to respond! I exact my defense only! I fully appreciate and accept your position and explanation i.e. apology.

stemsee
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wiak

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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 03:42    Post subject:  

you accept my apology??? Get lost.
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 03:51    Post subject:  

Hi wiak and everyone,

Thanks wiak for your explanation, it's not at all that I'm worried or concerned about anything (e.g. competition or whatever), I just didn't like your choice of words in that one sentence (and wasn't in the best mood at the moment I replied) and as far as I'm concerned this has been blown up way too much, so let's shake hands !! :)

Just to criticise myself on the mklive-stretch script: I regret a little that it became so complicated, also I'm sure that the script can be much more organized (understandable to read by others) and compact (I'm not so good with that).

Fred

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