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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Flaming Winmodems
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu 18 Aug 2005, 23:23    Post subject:  Re: Everyone is welcome  

[Wasre of time
Last edited by WaltA on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 05:19; edited 1 time in total
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 00:30    Post subject:  

[Wasre of time
Last edited by WaltA on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 05:20; edited 1 time in total
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 00:48    Post subject:  

WaltA wrote:
Oh, and by the way, while I an here in the beginners forum and subsequent to my previous post: :-

Whilst surfing the various Linux fora I see a lot of bleating about how manufacturers dont support Linux
yet I (think) I have found two drivers(?) from Intel that one of which may(?) support my winmodem
but I have not been able to find any Linux that incorpoates it(them) Sad


It is a winmodem you are talking about. A piece of hardware that was specifically designed for Windows. It was not designed for any other OS except Windows. It doesn't even work on DOS.

Even when I used Windows I tried to avoid winmodems because they were so limited in their design. They also used more resources than hardware modems.

Winmodems were cheaper to make. Consumers bought them and computer manufacturers included them in place of an actual modem.

What suprises me is that there is 'any' Linux support for winmodems.

Winmodems are evil.
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 01:40    Post subject:  

[Wasre of time
Last edited by WaltA on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 05:24; edited 1 time in total
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 01:46    Post subject:  

WaltA wrote:


[text cut]

So, what do we do about it ?


My honest opinion is that you don't have a modem. You have the illusion that you have a modem. The illusion is not of your making, marketing experts and strategy did it do you.

What to do? Buy a modem.
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 01:54    Post subject:  

[Wasre of time
Last edited by WaltA on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 05:25; edited 1 time in total
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 01:58    Post subject:  

[Wasre of time
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mike


Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Bowser

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 02:02    Post subject:  

Quote:
Oh, my honest opion is that you should piss off into your own little world


Wow, who asked for a light?

Flash, why'd you have to go and say how reasonable and polite everybody has been? ( Smile )


Confused

PS: Penguins don't bleat. Only sheep do.
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 02:07    Post subject:  

[Wasre of time
Last edited by WaltA on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 05:23; edited 1 time in total
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WaltA

Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 02:17    Post subject:  

[Wasre of time
Last edited by WaltA on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 05:21; edited 1 time in total
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 02:22    Post subject:  

Walt, respectfully, you have misintepreted my earlier post. Nothing I wrote was in respose to anything Lobster wrote or to anything you wrote, except the specific item I quoted. You thought it was in a greater context and it wasn't.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 03:29    Post subject:  

[quote="WaltA"]
Bruce B wrote:

I repeat, I have seen on Linnmodems etc much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth and general wailings about lack of MANUFACTURERS support for Linux, that when one does offer some limited support what does he get,,,
oh it is only a winmodem, oh it isnt one of us oh dear me,
well wake up, you cant have it both ways.


Winmodems can end up being an excercise in futility.

As for the can't have it boths ways. You can have it the right way the first time. If someone has a winmodem they probably bought it. Maybe they bought it with the computer or separately. This was probably done in ignorance of the future, not knowing they would be changing operating systems.

Would you actually buy one today? I don't think so. You would buy the right modem the first time around. A hardware modem that works with virtually all operating systems.

On the subject of lack of manufacturer support. I'm building a Linux computer right now for someone. (I wish it was for me.)

I have fully supported hardware for Linux and if he wants to install XP that would work also. I also hand picked the hardware.

There is some Windows only hardware, but not much Linux only hardware.

Meaning that in purchasing hardware with full Linux support, I didn't have to compromise by not having lack of Windows support.

--------------------

Linux does not have enough critical mass to pressure enough vendors at this point. At least not enough to suit me. This will change because the future is Linux in a big way.

---------------------

I think the hardware frustration we have is mostly because we are trying to change operating sytems on hardware that was purchased to meet the necessary specs for another operating system.
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Walt H


Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 216
Location: citizen of the world

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 12:44    Post subject:  

Bruce B wrote:
If someone has a winmodem they probably bought it. Maybe they bought it with the computer or separately. This was probably done in ignorance of the future, not knowing they would be changing operating systems.

Would you actually buy one today? I don't think so. You would buy the right modem the first time around. A hardware modem that works with virtually all operating systems.


This does not take into account those who, like me, bought a computer from a vendor with Linux pre-installed, not knowing that the modem included is still basically a winmodem, made to work with the preinstalled distribution (in this case, Xandros). Luckily, it is also one of the two soft modems supported in Puppy.

So, when I bought my "Linux system" (from Microtel), I thought I was buying a hardware modem, only to find out I wasn't. Although I do understand the difficulty in making such modems work under Linux and wish it wasn't so, I also don't think simply telling someone to "buy another modem" is going to endear Puppy or any other Linux distribution to newcomers. (Besides which, not all of have enough desk space for yet another piece of equipment. Smile )

I do think that most people on these forums have worked hard to explain the situation. I also wish more could be done to get such modems working in Linux. In my perfect world, Linux works as well as Microsoft, regardless of the hardware. Hardware vendors will also be a bit more upfront and detailed about the specifics of the components used to build their systems.

_________________
Walt

Now that you point it out to me, the answer seems painfully obvious.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 14:34    Post subject:  

Walt sorry to read about the Mircotel experience. I've seen ads for them and wondered how universal they would be. I hope you don't mind if I learn from your experience.

I'm a technician. Years of experience thinking like a technician.

My goal is generally to (1) make an accurate diagnosis (2) fix the problem - no more and no less.

Actually, I'm more retired than anything right now and my services are given joyously and free, as in the forum for example.

Suppose I'm working for you professionally. My time costs 65 dollars per hour. You have a problem with your modem not working. As quickly as I see you have a winmodem in Linux, the modem is condemned.

My strategy is remove the modem if it is not integral to the motherboard, and plug in and external modem. Suppose the external modem costs 100 dollars.

The bill will be 165 dollars. 65 for an hour of my time and 100 for the modem.

If I tried to save you the cost of a modem by tinkering with the winmodem for two hours and failed. You would end up with a bill of the two hours lost, plus the hour installing and configuring the hardware modem. 295 dollars.

It takes me less that one second to condem a winmodem and decide to install a hardware modem. It takes me a few minutes to explain to my client my intention and the reason why.

-----------------

Different strokes for different folks ...

My dad is what is called a 'computer scientist' he thinks differently than I, and works (worked as he is retired now) in groups solving problems. His approach is so different than a technician's approach.

If you were having the same discussion with him the correspondence would go on for pages and last for weeks as every factor and consideration is evaluated in minute detail.

-----------------

In any event I've hated winmodems before I even considered Linux. I hate them more now.

If I am abrupt and simply write: "Winmodems are evil. Buy a hardware modem." Don't take any offense because I didn't mean to be abrupt in a way that offends. I'd say the same thing to a woman I loved.
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danleff


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 294
Location: Albany, NY

PostPosted: Fri 19 Aug 2005, 16:06    Post subject:  

Bruce;

You missed one solution.

$199 for Windows XP + $130 for labor (1 hour. for the installation and 1/2 hour to find the right driver and install it) = $329.00.

Sorry, i could not help it!

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--Hannibal Smith

Last edited by danleff on Fri 19 Aug 2005, 20:26; edited 1 time in total
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