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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition - Trim the Fat!
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon 26 Feb 2007, 06:48    Post subject:  Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition - Trim the Fat!
Subject description: Post suggestions for reducing the size of the Office version here.
 

Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition Alpha was uploaded at 406Mb. That is way too much for a Puppy, IMHO. From the discussion in the community forums, that's an opinion shared by many.

Please make your suggestions for reducing the size of the monster here. All advice and constructive criticism gratefully accepted. This is YOUR edition, so please express your wishes for its future.

Raffy suggested making more use of sfs files. For instance, Open Office in the Alpha is included as a separate sfs file, so it doesn't impact on the size of the ramdrive Puppy creates. If we move selected other groups of applications to sfs files - say graphics, multimedia, games for example - then even the "Jumbo" Office Edition my happily exist in under 128Mb of RAM. Can anyone tell/show/advise me how to create sfs files from applications? If so I'll volunteer to start working on the graphics applications.

Doing things with sfs files will allow us to take a modular approach to the installation process. Modifying the Puppy Universal Installer could then include giving the user options to include this or that group of apps as an sfs file! That would be BRILLIANT for Puppy, IMHO.

Over to you guys, and gals.
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Previously known as Guest


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2007, 21:43    Post subject:  

Just taking a look at Beta1. Seems that AbiWord & Gnumeric could be removed as OOo is there.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2007, 22:33    Post subject:  

Previously known as Guest wrote:
Just taking a look at Beta1. Seems that AbiWord & Gnumeric could be removed as OOo is there.

They could be, but why bother? Open Office is there only as a squash file. If that gets lost, stolen or destroyed somehow, then abiword and gnumeric are still there in the pup_215.sfs to fill the gap.

General vibe I'm getting is that people want a sub 100Mb Standard Edition, but are happy to accept a sub 300Mb Office Edition. If that's the case, and the web_215.sfs turns out to be HUGE, then I'll probably drop them out to meet the size limit.

At the moment I suspect from my experiments that the web_215.sfs will come in at around 70Mb. After that I'm not planning to offer anything further as standard in Office Edition. That said, being able to offer a graphics package, a multimedia package or whatever would be a terrific bonus.

Think of it this way:

1. Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition + Ooo_215.sfs + Web_215.sfs = Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition.

2. Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition + Web_215.sfs + Graf_215.sfs = Puppy 2.15CE Graphics Edition

3. Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition + Web_215.sfs + Media_215.sfs = Puppy 2.15CE Multimedia Edition

4. Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition + Ooo_215.sfs + Web_215.sfs + Graf_215.sfs + Media_215.sfs = Puppy 2.15CE Jumbo Edition (provided our gurus can make the extra sfs file work within the unionfs - to do this we need 6 and only have access to 5 with the present system)

Cheers, mate.
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Previously known as Guest


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2007, 23:03    Post subject:  

Very true. Smile

I'm just concerned about .sfs modules, coming along slowly.
I am taking a look at it as time permits. Smile
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2007, 23:30    Post subject:  

Smile

This seems more focussed
the office / multimedia components will work with 2.16 and beyond, making a contribution for quite some time

With a standard based on good clean eye candy AND awareness of what is being planned for 2.16, Viz can innovate AND integrate

so far all I know is the use of Seamonkey for 2.16
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy216

Get the Viz Very Happy

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vern72023

Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Jacksonville Fl

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 08:01    Post subject:  

I use Puppy 214 Lite with Abiword and Xorg stripped out and WINE added which is 53MB; I have OOo as an sfs (with dictionaries and help and samples stripped out) at 89MB; The OOo is mounted as needed from the menu. I use SeaMonkey 1.1.1 under Wine but could just as easily invoke it the same way as I do Office as an sfs. My Wine C_drive and Moz Profile are external to these and come to 20MB

WiineLite +OOo + SeaMonkey comes to abt 200MB including the profiles - I haven't really commented on the 215 project as it appeared to me to be going away from the way I view and use OS's but that's fine - my tastes in Minimal, Modular and CrossPlatform are more extreme than most, but I just wanted to throw this setup in as a comparison to the indicated 400+ size of the OOo version of Puppy.

I like the idea of a modular paradigm
Base + then chose from Office, or Media, or Graphics or Gaming or CYO or combination loaded as needed from the core menu but I would question the need to add so much into the Base - why put Graphics into the Base, or Heavyweight browsers or Mail or any "Office products, when they could be serviced froom the add-on SFS's

George

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 15:56    Post subject:  

vern72023 wrote:
I haven't really commented on the 215 project as it appeared to me to be going away from the way I view and use OS's but that's fine - my tastes in Minimal, Modular and CrossPlatform are more extreme than most, but I just wanted to throw this setup in as a comparison to the indicated 400+ size of the OOo version of Puppy.

Beta version of Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition is 280Mb

vern72023 wrote:

I like the idea of a modular paradigm
Base + then chose from Office, or Media, or Graphics or Gaming or CYO or combination loaded as needed from the core menu but I would question the need to add so much into the Base - why put Graphics into the Base, or Heavyweight browsers or Mail or any "Office products, when they could be serviced froom the add-on SFS's

I have mentally debated that question, George, but I can't get away from the fact that so many users just load up the Standard Edition and happily surf away, email, write brief letters, or listen to a bit of music. amish's idea of a barebones start is more in line with your thinking, but why not start with something that does more than simply serve as a base for some fairly hefty add-ons? Puppy 2.15CE Standard will be fully functional in so many areas and still come in under 100Mb.

Just my $0.02c
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 00:43    Post subject:  

WhoDo wrote:
Beta version of Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition is 280Mb

Where can one find it? Don't see it anywhere.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 01:20    Post subject:  

richard.a wrote:
WhoDo wrote:
Beta version of Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition is 280Mb

Where can one find it? Don't see it anywhere.

It is available from the Puppy 2.15CE wiki download page.

Hope that helps
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 02:03    Post subject:  

WhoDo wrote:
richard.a wrote:
WhoDo wrote:
Beta version of Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition is 280Mb

Where can one find it? Don't see it anywhere.

It is available from the Puppy 2.15CE wiki download page.

Hope that helps

Thankyou, I said I was a blind as a bat, even with spectacles Very Happy

That was, after all, where I got the standard version from lol

Downloading now, appreciated Smile

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 22:59    Post subject:  

Okay, I've had an hour or so look, and collected a few screen caps as well as general playing.

I have three points I'd like to air about how I see it, maybe not *quite* within the thread, but can't see where else to post them.

The third one is actually broken in both the Standard and the Office versions.



Point One
I'm puzzled by why the choice of available themes for the Office version is far fewer than the choice for the Standard version. These two screen captures show what I'm concerned about. The top one is the "Office" version which I believe has inadequate choices.





The lower one is the "Standard" version which has adequate choices.

I would like to see no difference between the Standard and the Office editions of 2.15ce in this respect.

Is there any way that the missing files can be just added at this stage? Or does it have to be a recompile job? I've made my default the WinXP-Olive from personal preferences.



Point Two
I'm also puzzled by why there is no "Power Point" presentation software in the Office version, as it is part of the OpenOffice suite.



Thirdly,
Media Player doesn't work here either, and there also appears to be no email client here either - at least I've not found a way to actuate it, even from the launch bar menu next to the desktops switcher; you don't even get the indication that it started and then died.

Is there any reason that the ordinary regular Patience (Solitaire) isn't included in the "Fun" menu item of desktop games?


Good job guys, a very good job. I think it's almost there Smile


Richard
Warm muggy Sunday afternoon in Adelaide.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2007, 23:58    Post subject:  

richard.a wrote:
Point One
I'm puzzled by why the choice of available themes for the Office version is far fewer than the choice for the Standard version....[snip]...
I would like to see no difference between the Standard and the Office editions of 2.15ce in this respect.

Is there any way that the missing files can be just added at this stage? Or does it have to be a recompile job? I've made my default the WinXP-Olive from personal preferences.

The Standard Edition will have the reduced choice and the Office Edition a slightly expanded choice in Beta2/RC1. Size has been an issue but I'm happy with the size of Office Edition, although Standard Edition needs to lose another 5-10Mb.

The extra themes are available as an add-on theme pack. Look for it in MU's PSI repository for downloads.

richard.a wrote:
Point Two
I'm also puzzled by why there is no "Power Point" presentation software in the Office version, as it is part of the OpenOffice suite.

It's there but there is no menu entry for it because it's part of the squash file add-on. I believe you'll find shortcuts to all of the office programs, including simpress (for presentations) in /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin or /usr/share/bin. Just drag the shortcut to the desktop and add an icon.

richard.a wrote:
Thirdly,
Media Player doesn't work here either, and there also appears to be no email client here either - at least I've not found a way to actuate it, even from the launch bar menu next to the desktops switcher; you don't even get the indication that it started and then died.

Media player requires the dotpup add-on libraries available here.


richard.a wrote:

Is there any reason that the ordinary regular Patience (Solitaire) isn't included in the "Fun" menu item of desktop games?

Space. I couldn't find a standard alone version that I thought fit with the quality of the build. There is one in the Tkgames pack, but I left that out because of size constraints. It could go in with Beta2/RC1, size permitting.

Cheers
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2007, 00:46    Post subject:  

WhoDo thank you for your comprehensive response Smile
Not quite sure where to find MU's PSI repository for downloads.

What's the story on an email client please?

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2007, 02:13    Post subject:  

richard.a wrote:
WhoDo thank you for your comprehensive response Smile
Not quite sure where to find MU's PSI repository for downloads.

What's the story on an email client please?

Search the forum for Puppy Software Installer (all terms) and it should pop up. When you first start it, click no don't download the list, click on mirrors, restart and then click download the software list. Updating the mirrors is important as stuff has been moved around a lot since the program was built.

Opera has a built in email client. It is very comprehensive and was part of the reason I went with Opera for the Beta1. You can set up and monitor multiple accounts, have specific profiles, etc.

Hope that helps.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3453
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2007, 22:13    Post subject:  

WhoDo:

I downloaded and tried the standard 2.15CE and I have some comments.

I hate Opera like the plague.

Here is a more radical thought...in the bloatie Office 2.15 add Internet Explorer as a second option. ..........No I wouldn't ???? on IE myself, but if we are going after Windows converts, why not add it.
Hasn't MU downloaded it recently?

When I booted I chose Xvesa and it went back to the prompt
Rudypuppy, 2.15CE, and Teen puppy cannot seem to take Xvesa.
But I have never failed with Barrys' releases.

Which brings me to trying the CD burners...burning a CD copy.
Hopeless. If I want to make a backup copy of my purchased CDs
I want Simple.

Why can't we get Internet connection at first boot. It is possible in Puppy
because Hacao's last release had this.

I had many other thoughts and diatribes but 'll leave it at that.
Barry, yourself and many others advise, devise...I just hand out a lot of free copies....so if I shout out nasty sounds, that doesn't mean that I will enjoy hearing any echoes.
Respectfully Chris.
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