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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Windows 7 boot fail, can Puppy help?
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3541
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2019, 17:53    Post subject:  

Now that we know you have a Windows 7 DVD, I think Qui is on the right-track. See this post, https://www.tomshardware.com/news/win7-windows-7-mbr,10036.html. Scan down to the Section which starts with Fixing the Master Boot Record (MBR).

If yours is only a MBR problem, there is one other thing you can try before taking the computer to a repair shop. BUT I STILL DON'T KNOW IF YOUR COMPUTER USES UEFI TO BOOT. Will have to know that before proceeding. However, the basic idea is to create a BionicPup USB-Stick as an intermediate step which uses grub4dos or I think* FrugalPup/StickPup, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1005485#1005485 as bootloader. That bootloader will be on the USB-Stick and will offer to boot Windows, thus bypassing the problem.

I've never used FrugalPup/StickPup so am uncertain whether it creates a listing for Windows. Grub4dos does but can't be used with UEFI computers. If not FrugalPup/StickPup perhaps someone can advise which bootloader can be used with UEFI computers and creates a menu listing for Windows..

I also don't know if FrugalPup/StickPup can be installed to a hard-drive. Grub4dos can. As can LICK, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=462720#462720 which can boot Windows from either an UEFI or Bios computer, again, I think bypassing the problem MBR. LICK, however, is a Windows program -- so you first have to have a running version of Windows.

At any event, the basic idea is to finally substitute a bootloader on the hard-drive for your problem bootloader. Creating a bootable USB-Stick avoids making any changes to the bootloader on the hard-drive until you've been able to test the alternative bootloader. Not having had this problem, I am uncertain whether grub4dos, FrugalPup/Stickpup or Lick can boot Windows if its the MBR, itself, which is messed up. That is, I don't know if these applications, if installed to a hard-drive, use the existing MBR or replace it or by-pass it.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2019, 18:41    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
Now that we know you have a Windows 7 DVD, I think Qui is on the right-track. See this post, https://www.tomshardware.com/news/win7-windows-7-mbr,10036.html. Scan down to the Section which starts with Fixing the Master Boot Record (MBR).


thank you mike!
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2019, 20:09    Post subject:  

Very frustrating. Mad
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peterw

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2019, 21:18    Post subject: Certainly there are some actions that Puppy can take  

I think that it is worth stating some of the actions that you can do with Puppy Linux if you can get Puppy Linux to boot from USB stick or CD/DVD

1. You can explore the Windows installation and pull off any files that you want to backup before working on the Windows installation.
2. You can check the health of the hard drive as indicated by the SMART values so that you know if the hard drive or SSD is good or note with the command "smartctl --all /dev/sda"
3. You can do a start of a fix for the Windows file system with the command "ntfsfix". See for details:https://linux.die.net/man/8/ntfsfix
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jafadmin

Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 1013

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2019, 22:55    Post subject:  

Disconnect the blank 2T disk and try booting again.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4455
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 00:15    Post subject:  

Will it boot up in Safe Mode?

" Disconnect the blank 2T disk and try booting again."

Yes worth a try.

Use recovery mode

Fix the Windows 7 Bootloader using a Windows Recovery Disc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s73tDCX3FuY


::::::::::

Windows 7 Loading Boot Driver Error Fix - Reboot And Select Proper Boot Device Fix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgwpeOx2fvQ

:::::::;

Advanced Boot Options in Windows 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwUOJURKWYg

:::::::::::


How to Perform a Startup Repair in Windows 7


https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-perform-a-startup-repair-in-windows-7-2626170

::::::::

Probably best to recover all your email, docs, pics, in Puppy
just in case of stuffing it up.

Whirlpool Forum is a great OZ Forum of over 800.000 users.
Try them as well.
Whatever happens tell us so we can help the next person.

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/10

Chris.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4455
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 04:03    Post subject:  

Fred Langer originally wrote this years ago

win7s no reformat nondestructive reinstall

It is bad form to post a full script by someone else but as that forum has disappeared and I have spent ages on finding a Fred original post,
I will pinch this from here because this is what this lot did.
So no bones broken.

I first posted Fred's fix here >>>> Sun Jul 17, 2011

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=544798#544798

Their post:
Welcome to FP Gaming Community

http://178.32.223.184/forums/topic/7337-win7%E2%80%B2s-no-reformat-nondestructive-reinstall/

::::::::

You absolutely must read it properly...fast hands versus slow minds equals UGLY.

:::::::::

Win7′s no-reformat, nondestructive reinstall

Microsoft won't tell you this, but you can do a fast, nondestructive, in-place, total reinstall of Windows 7 without damaging your user accounts, data, installed programs, or system drivers.

That means you may never have to do a full, from-scratch reinstall again, even when your system is misbehaving so badly that a full reformat-and-reinstall seems the only answer!

As I am sure you know all too well, from-scratch-- re-installs are ordeals. They take hours. And when a reinstall is done, you still have to recreate all your settings, reinstall all your software, and so on. It can take days to fully recover from a total reformat/reinstall.

Windows little known, in-place reinstall takes only a fraction of that time and effort and yet completely rebuilds, repairs, and refreshes an existing Windows installation. It leaves your other software alone
(no re-installation needed!) while also leaving user accounts, names, and passwords untouched.

When you are finished, your Windows installation is just as it was before, except that all the system files are fully repaired, refreshed, and ready to go.

This nondestructive-reinstall ability has been in Windows since XP.
(See this XP reinstall article that I wrote for another publication, years ago, when XP was new.) But for reasons unknown Microsoft has never made nondestructive reinstalls an official repair. In fact, it's not even listed in Win7′s System Recovery Options (Help & How-to page).

You need three things before you begin

First, you need access to a standard Win7 installation DVD.
Ideally, you have your original setup DVD tucked away somewhere.
But if not, it's perfectly OK to borrow one from a colleague or friend, as long as it's the same 32- or 64-bit version as your installation.
Ideally, it should also match the general type retail disk or OEM/vendor-supplied disk as well.

Why is it OK to borrow? A standard Win7 DVD actually contains all editions of Win7. For example, a 32-bit Win7 DVD has all the files for the 32-bit editions of Win7 Home, Win7 Professional, Win7 Ultimate, and so on.
Your license key unlocks whichever edition you paid for.

This means it's perfectly legitimate for you to use someone elses
Win7 setup DVD to install Windows on your system, as long as you use your own, original, paid-for product key during installation.
Sharing disks is fine. Sharing keys is not.

This also provides an easy workaround for the all-too-common problem of PCs that ship without setup DVDs. As long as you can borrow a standard setup DVD of the same general type (as described above), you should be able to rebuild your system using it, with your own original, unshared product key.

And that is the second thing you need: your original 25-character product key. It's usually found on a sticker on your computer or in the paperwork that accompanies a retail copy of Windows 7.

If you've lost track of your product key, no problem: you can use a free keyfinder tool to dig it out. One such tool is the excellent, but absurdly named, Magical Jelly Bean.

The third and final thing you need is a current backup.
Although the reinstall process works reliably, it's not infallible.
Deep-seated system errors, OEM customizations, hardware trouble,
or other variables may foil your reinstall efforts.
Having a complete and current backup is a sensible precaution.

Avoiding problems with Win7 Service Pack 1

If you're not running Win7 SP1, skip ahead to the next section.

You can also skip ahead if you're repairing an SP1 setup with a Win7 setup DVD that already contains the SP1 files but such disks are still relatively rare as of this writing.

If you're still reading this paragraph, then you're most likely attempting to repair a Win7 SP1 setup with an original, pre-SP1 DVD.
That’s OK, provided you take an important preparatory step.

Win7 SP1 replaced many of your original system files with newer versions. If you try to install the older, original Win7 files over the newer SP1 files, the setup process will balk at what it sees as an erroneous downgrade.

So, if you're attempting to repair Win7 SP1 with a pre-SP1 DVD, you need to remove SP1 from the target PC before proceeding.
Control Panel's Uninstall an update feature makes it a cinch to get the SP1 files out of the way.

Here's how: Open Control Panel's default view and click on Uninstall a program. In the left-hand pane of the uninstall applet, select View installed updates. When the Uninstall an update dialog box opens, scroll down to SP1 listed as Service Pack for Microsoft Windows (KB976932) and select Uninstall.

The system will churn for a while, but when it's done, SP1 will be gone and you'll be able to use an original Win7 setup DVD to repair your system.

Start your Win7 in-place reinstallation

With Windows running or limping, if it's badly broken insert the Win7
setup DVD. When the AutoPlay dialog box pops up, click to run setup.exe. Alternatively, you can run setup.exe manually by navigating to the DVD drive and selecting the setup file.

Run the Win7 installation DVD's setup.exe from inside your current Windows, either via AutoPlay or by manual selection.

When setup starts to run, the User Account Control asks whether you want to make changes to your PC. Answer Yes.

After a few moments, the Win7 installation process starts. When asked, click Install now to get the ball rolling.

Next, you'll see several information screens.

After several moments, you'll be asked whether you want to check online for updates related to the installation process, recommend that you allow this online access to ensure essential files are current. It's usually smart to allow the setup program to check for installation-related updates.
I NEVER BOTHER WITH THIS STEP >> CHRIS.

You can accept or reject the I want to help make Windows installation better option shown further down in the same dialog box. Your reinstall will proceed in the same way, regardless of your answer.

Assuming you allowed it, Windows then goes online to collect essential updates. It normally takes only a few moments to collect any needed installation updates.

Now we come to the heart of the matter.
Windows asks you Which type of installation do you want?
But ther's no Reinstall option listed.
Instead, you have to bend the normal installation routine to your wishes by selecting the upgrade option. Tell Windows a little white lie that you're upgrading, even though you're really not.

You're not really upgrading; you're reinstalling the same version of the OS that's already on the PC.
But the upgrade option leaves your files, settings, and programs in place,] undisturbed.
By pretending that you're upgrading, you can trick the setup program into doing an in-place reinstall!

And then, finally, the installation process begins in earnest.
Depending on the complexity of your setup and the speed of your hardware,
re-installation can take up to several hours.

There's no need for you to baby-sit the installation; no further user input is required until near the end. As you check in from time to time, note the progress indicators to keep track of the installation's evolution.
The progress bar at the bottom of the screen and the numeric indications
(e.g., percent complete) let you easily monitor the process.

Windows reboots several times during the installation; you see various information screens, some unusual along the way.
Don't be alarmed at unusual-looking screens.

At the very end of the installation process, you're asked to enter the product key from your original installation of Win7.
When prompted, enter your original product key.

You also can elect to either Activate the fresh install of Windows immediately or wait. But unactivated instances of Windows get only limited access to Windows Updates and related services. I recommend activating without delay so you have immediate access to all Windows Update services.

If you defer activation, your desktop background will be set to an ominous black with the words This copy of Windows is not genuine (circled in yellow in Figure 12) in the lower-right corner. You'll also see Activation nag screens.
An unactivated Windows gets an ominous desktop background and
recurring nag screens.

Personally, I think it's simpler and better to just activate and get it over with. Once it's activated, your reinstalled Windows desktop background can be set normally, and no further activation nags will appear.

By the way, activation is not a one-time-only thing. Microsoft allows for periodic re-activations of a given product key. Unless you've done several reactivations
in a relatively short time, you should have no trouble.
But if you do, just follow the remedies listed in the Activation Failed dialog box. As long as your product key is legit, Microsoft will work with you to resolve an accidental activation mishap.


Your Win7 reinstall is almost done!

At this point, the basic reinstall is finished. Your Win7 setup now has fresh copies of all the original system files. All that's left is to bring the installation up to date.

This generally takes several iterations of running Windows Update.
Run WU once, let the updates install, and then reboot.
Repeat until WU reports that no further updates are available.
Your new Windows installation immediately needs to be brought up to date with the latest security patches from Windows Update. Don't put off this step!

When you're done, you have a fully refreshed, up-to-date copy of Windows with all your essential files, settings, and programs intact and working. In fact, if all has gone as planned, the only significant change you'll notice is that the original problem is gone!

With just a smidgen of luck and this article, you'll never again have to face a dreaded, start-over-from-scratch reformat/reinstall of Win7!

"""""""""""''

I had to edit a few bits so if there is a spelling error...tough.

I never update...MS BullS..T, and it may well have been an Update that
KILLED your Win7 installation.

But I would definitely back up your files with Puppy first.

""""""""""

This video might help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_5eb9wTfk

Repair Install to Fix Windows 7 Without Reformatting by Britec

Chris.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3601
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 06:24    Post subject:  

Just as a last thought, have you tried the latest Hirens Boot CD as that has a Mini Windows on it that can often be used to repair Windows???

The last official version was 15.2 though there are a couple of later ones for Windows 10 based on Windows 10PE

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"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3541
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 10:52    Post subject: Hiren's Boot CD 16.2 Windows 7  

Thanks Burn_It for mentioning that there are unofficial versions later than 15.2. As both the OP and I have Windows 7, I tracked down the version relating to it, following the link from here, https://www.4winkey.com/windows-tips/hiren-boot-cd-16-2-iso-free-download.html to https://www.hirensbootcd.org/download/.

Untested by me. Use at your own risk.

However, note that it includes these CD-MBR Tools:
BootIce v1.3.3
EasyBCD v2.3.

By the way, just in case you didn't know, you can 'burn' and boot Hiren's to/from a USB-Key using various applications rather than burning it to a CD/DVD.

Last edited by mikeslr on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:16; edited 1 time in total
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3601
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:10    Post subject:  

I have Windows 7 as well, but I deliberately avoided mentioning those later versions as they were unsupported and actually offer little extra over the earlier version (and I haven't used them either).

I have actually extracted the contents from the 15.2 version to my recovery partition on my hard drive and merged it with other useful tools on the boot menu for that drive.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3541
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:25    Post subject:  

Thanks again, Burn_It, for the advice. I so rarely boot into Windows --and never use it for 'web-work-- that I haven't experienced any problem with that operating system. But I have had to replace two originally 'Window 7' computers when their 'Power-on' buttons no longer functioned. That, however, is another story; perhaps for a inquiry somewhere as a 'google-search' generates hundreds of posts of which none are pertinent to that problem.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12980
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 19:37    Post subject:  

I recently had a computer with Windows 7 on it.
It started to have boot problems.
The normal recover stuff on the Windows 7 DVD did not work to fix it.

I went to Microsoft web site and downloaded and installed Windows 10 for free.
https://www.howtogeek.com/272201/all-the-ways-you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free/
I did this in July 2019.
It worked for me.

I wonder if Microsoft put out some kind of update to Windows 7
That makes Windows 7 mess up, so people move to using Windows 10?? Idea Shocked

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The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer)
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5640
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 21:42    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
I recently had a computer with Windows 7 on it.
It started to have boot problems.
The normal recover stuff on the Windows 7 DVD did not work to fix it.

I went to Microsoft web site and downloaded and installed Windows 10 for free.
https://www.howtogeek.com/272201/all-the-ways-you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free/
I did this in July 2019.
It worked for me.

I wonder if Microsoft put out some kind of update to Windows 7
That makes Windows 7 mess up, so people move to using Windows 10?? Idea Shocked


^^^ Now, that wouldn't surprise me at all. I wouldn't put anything past M$; these are the folks who described Linux as a 'cancer', don't forget..... And with proprietary, closed-source code, of course, who knows what they upload to your machine?

Gates might be richer than God, and MyCrudSoft may well be one the biggest companies on the planet.....but these are the guys who turned software licensing into an art form.

Leopards don't change their spots, despite getting all cosy with Linux the last few years. They're still chasing that 'one billion desktops' running Win10 by..... (when was it)? Or are they chasing the second billion by now...?? Shocked Rolling Eyes


Mike. Wink

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2019, 23:45    Post subject:  

Well, it's just stupidity if you allow Microsoft (or any other software company for that matter) to update stuff automatically because disabling any updates is as easy as taking sweets from a baby. I really can't understand how people can be worried about little stuff like this that can be controlled so easily by the user.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4455
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2019, 21:53    Post subject:  

More options:


Recopy Windows and the data back

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=959097&sid=a2f5908877d7c62ed3207921f623166c#959097

" My Chinese computer shop techie had a Toshiba laptop that had issues.

I gave him Puppy 4.21 at the time and newer Puppies later as rescue
disks. Plus many others.

He always copied the data with Puppy to a spare drive,
and used the hidden partition to do the Factory re-install.

Then recopy the data back.
Anyway this particular Toshiba refused to boot properly for some reason.
He redid it twice...no go.

I got him to give me a spare hard drive.
Copied his new but failing Windows install...

Program Files
Users
Windows
Documents and Settings
ProgramData

Booted a Windows disc....and installed Windows 7 just one percent

Then I rebooted in Puppy, deleted any Win files and just copied
all the Win files from the spare hard drive back to the main drive.

Checked GParted that it could boot, and rebooted.

Voila! booted cleanly into Windows.
He could then copy the data back.

He knew Puppy was good...but this was awesome to him.

When I install any Windows system, I always boot Puppy straight after, and clean the new install out, and make a backup.

I then only ever install the drive1%, clean it out as above with Puppy, and recopy the files.
Never had a fail yet. "

""""""""""""""""

Fixing Windows 7 Boot Problems

https://askleo.com/fixing-windows-7-boot-problems/

:::::

Use the fixMBR command to fix boot issues on Windows 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9lQ3n_J0ns

Chris.
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