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bigpup
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#1381 Post by bigpup »

I have wondered about something with using Woof-CE to build a Puppy version.

I always see a new Puppy version released that seems to have some programs that do not work, bugs in basic core programs and processes, missing needed stuff, etc.............

So, Woof-CE will never build a completely working Puppy version?

Or is it the builder of the Puppy version is just leaving stuff out of the build?
Oh, he/she/they forgot to put that in it?

I wonder if a lot of these fixes actually get into Woof-CE repositories?
Sure seem to be fixing the same problems, over and over again, in each new Puppy version release.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

musher0
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#1382 Post by musher0 »

HI bigpup.

If you noticed anything important missing in Sailor Enceladus' Slacko Pup,
tell Sailor Enceladus?!

I'm downloading it now to forge an opinion myself.

But off-hand, if it's just some icons missing, I'd say it's because:
  • they take a lot of space in an ISO;
    users have their own desktop icon preferences;
    and a number of desktop icon sets are readily available on this board.
    (Will be back with URL later).
As to the on-screen keyboard missing, I'd say it's a luxury.
Is it really needed by a regular user?

BFN.
musher0
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musher0
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#1383 Post by musher0 »

Hi.

I just installed SE's Slacko-5.8.10 frugally. I took a ride with it, clicking
on all desktop icons.

Everything works. Abiword, geany, setup, e-mailer, etc.
Except no browser, the user has to get one.

The user has a choice of desktop icons (please see att'd pic).
As you can see, the desktop is normally populated.

If the user follows instructions correctly, a pupsave is created
as it should upon 1st shutdown.

Maybe Sailor should mention some download sites for a browser,
because a real newbie won't know off-hand where to find one.
Or maybe provide a light browser like dillo or links with those URLs
already in a download list, to male things easier for said newbie.

But aside from that, I can't find anything missing or wrong with Sailor's
(re)build of this slacko.

I'd say that this pup is Ideal for an older tower or desktop computer.

Good work, SE! :)

BFN.
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musher0
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ozsouth
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#1384 Post by ozsouth »

Slacko-5.8.10 test:
Looks good. Runs well.

issues i found:
gnomeplayershell missing
openssl version old - 2016
no temperature indicators work (missing perl files)

mistfire
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#1385 Post by mistfire »

More gui improvements on puppy core apps are coming to woof-ce

musher0
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#1386 Post by musher0 »

mistfire wrote:More gui improvements on puppy core apps are coming to woof-ce
Shucks. It's stuff with CLI that needs to be developed. ;)
When will the world understand that GUIs encourage laziness in users? ;)
Sad, very sad. ;)
musher0
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mikeslr
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#1387 Post by mikeslr »

musher0 wrote: When will the world understand that GUIs encourage laziness in users? ;) Sad, very sad. ;)
It all began to go downhill when they invented papyrus. A person used to be able to make a good living chiseling hieroglyphs in to stones. :cry: And translating them for almost everyone else. :roll:

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#1388 Post by musher0 »

:D
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Sailor Enceladus
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#1389 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

Thanks everyone. I tried another build with the latest woof-CE testing branch today, this time selecting Slacko64 14.2
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/04k8b8812ccoh/x86_64

For reference, some of the missing icons I noticed so far in this one include:
- Menu->Utility LXTerminal (it works if you change the desktop entry, Icon=lxterminal, to the full path though for some reason)
- Menu->Multimedia GNOME Player View->Playlist doesn't seem to show/have the last two repeat/shuffle buttons
- Menu->GetFlash seems to be missing the "Flash" icon on the top-left of the first window
- Menu->Setup Download Chrome seems to missing an icon on one of the light blue splash screens

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01micko
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#1390 Post by 01micko »

@Sailor E

I pushed a change to petbuilds which should fix the lxterminal icon - it will filter thru soon.

I pushed changes to all the icon themes making sure we have the loop/repeat icon and the shuffle icon for gnome-mplayer; only one of the themes was missing those - Puppy Standard - which I see is your gtk icon theme.

I fixed the main icon in getflash and pushed.

Do you mean the download chrome/opera/vivaldi? I'll be deleting that anyway since chrome and opera dropped 32 bit. There is a new one in no-arch - Download Vivaldi - vivaldi supports, 32 bit, 64 and arm. I'll write a new one for opera/chrome soon and probably put it in common64 repo.
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access

Sailor Enceladus
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#1391 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

Thanks 01micko!

Re: The Lxterminal icon: I tried deleting everything including the local-repository folder and rebuilding, and still it doesn't show the icon in the menu for some reason, though strangely uninstalling it and installing it from ppm fixes it. I included an updated iso if anyone wants to try and help debug what's going on there.

Re: The Download Chrome option: This worked flawlessly in Slacko64 each time I tried it, though it takes about 10-15 minutes for it to set up and squash the pet here, I have been just sticking with Firefox for the most part. In 32-bit I normally just use Oscartalks slimjet pets when I want a chrome-based browser (I believe it still supports 32-bit too? will have to check again though) and understand why you'd want to get rid of Chrome/Opera there. Will try to check out your new versions soon. :)

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mikeslr
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#1392 Post by mikeslr »

musher0 wrote:
Maybe Sailor should mention some download sites for a browser,
because a real newbie won't know off-hand where to find one.
Or maybe provide a light browser like dillo or links with those URLs
already in a download list, to male things easier for said newbie.

But aside from that, I can't find anything missing or wrong with Sailor's
(re)build of this slacko.

I'd say that this pup is Ideal for an older tower or desktop computer.

Good work, SE! :)

BFN.
Maybe adopt jrb's portable browser installer. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 21#1027621. AFAIK, the web-browsers that will run OOTB under precise-light will also run OOTB under Slacko 5.7 Updated.

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recobayu
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#1393 Post by recobayu »

I just build limuks based on ubuntu bionic using the last woof ce github. Please go here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 30#1040330
It is big. If you don't want it big, so just remove the adrv from frugal install folder.

I add some good in simple network setup. So i change a little the /usr/local/simple_network_setup/sns code. So after I input password, I just press enter directly. I hope someone in here want to put it to woof ce github.

And maybe I suggest to add stickyjwm in woof ce, So we can use win + arrow shortcut just like linuxmint. You can upgrade my script if you want.

Thank you..

Edit:
Is it possible to build just puppy, not based ubuntu, debian, or slackware? So We just add debootstrap on it to install anything applications. Thank you.

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sc0ttman
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#1394 Post by sc0ttman »

musher0 wrote:
mistfire wrote:More gui improvements on puppy core apps are coming to woof-ce
Shucks. It's stuff with CLI that needs to be developed. ;)
Agreed. Lots of important system setup/config tasks are still impossible or very complicated without X running...

I made a (overly long) post called "Make Puppy CLI more powerful" about that here: https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... ssues/1627

One thing we could do is have a puppy-config CLI program, with nice, consistently named commands, that makes it easy to do all the important stuff..

Something like:

puppy-config adblocker <-- runs a cli ad blocker script

puppy-config audio <-- asks some questions, setup as asked, play test sound

puppy-config audio alsa <-- setup alsa so its working, play test sound

puppy-config wifi <-- choose network from list, enter password

puppy-config samba [sharename]

puppy-config bluetooth

puppy-config locale <-- font, language, keybord setup

puppy-config install [drive] <-- asks questions, installs puppy to drive

..etc..

Then the GUIs we already have could be updated/simplified to just call these CLI programs in the background.

As Puppy aims to be easier to use than other Linuxes, a simple tool in the terminal, that replaces more complicated manual setup stuff, would be in keeping with the Puppy philosophy..

And it would pave the way for building barebones Puppies without X that were still easy to setup, customise, etc.

...The arguments given for avoiding the terminal is that is "too hard", "too complicated", "scary", etc..

Well, it would be a lot less scary with puppy-config helping you get setup ..
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]

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dejan555
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#1395 Post by dejan555 »

speaking of woof-CE I remember there was a forum on nabble site so I went there and see bunch of spam links, has the development moved to github only?
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

mistfire
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#1396 Post by mistfire »

@dejan555 yes it is I think because it was very easily to contribute on Puppy Linux development. Biggest changes are already made in woof-ce

musher0
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#1397 Post by musher0 »

sc0ttman wrote:
musher0 wrote:
mistfire wrote:More gui improvements on puppy core apps are coming to woof-ce
Shucks. It's stuff with CLI that needs to be developed. ;)
Agreed. Lots of important system setup/config tasks are still impossible or very complicated without X running...

I made a (overly long) post called "Make Puppy CLI more powerful" about that here: https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... ssues/1627

One thing we could do is have a puppy-config CLI program, with nice, consistently named commands, that makes it easy to do all the important stuff..

Something like:

puppy-config adblocker <-- runs a cli ad blocker script

puppy-config audio <-- asks some questions, setup as asked, play test sound

puppy-config audio alsa <-- setup alsa so its working, play test sound

puppy-config wifi <-- choose network from list, enter password

puppy-config samba [sharename]

puppy-config bluetooth

puppy-config locale <-- font, language, keybord setup

puppy-config install [drive] <-- asks questions, installs puppy to drive

..etc..

Then the GUIs we already have could be updated/simplified to just call these CLI programs in the background.

As Puppy aims to be easier to use than other Linuxes, a simple tool in the terminal, that replaces more complicated manual setup stuff, would be in keeping with the Puppy philosophy..

And it would pave the way for building barebones Puppies without X that were still easy to setup, customise, etc.

...The arguments given for avoiding the terminal is that is "too hard", "too complicated", "scary", etc..

Well, it would be a lot less scary with puppy-config helping you get setup ..
Thanks for your support to this idea, sc0ttman.

One thing that is often overlooked concerning the CLI interface is that it has visual
arrangement, refresh, and color possibilities, e.g. through ANSI escape codes, which
could make it more appealing to users, even, than bland YAD layouts.

Yes, in a CLI interface you have to figure out where the required keyboard keys are.
But for the user, that is not any more difficult than figuring out where to drag your
mouse to and within a YAD box.

BFN.
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rufwoof
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#1398 Post by rufwoof »

I boot a 11.6MB vmlinuz, a cut down version of Fatdog's Bulldog (initrd cli). That's with the initrd (initramfs/init) built into the kernel, along with all machine specific modules/firmware, so its the only file required in order to boot. Boots in around a second ... a few seconds in total before its also wifi net connected, and includes OpenSSH (so ssh/scp/sftp/sshfs), ccrypt (that I use to encrypt my .ssh folder (ssh keys)), screen (terminal multiplexing), simple-mtpfs (so I can mount my android phone), kexec (to directly boot any other kernel/system), and mc (file manager and text editor). With that I can download any Puppy/distro, and boot (kexec) it. Or kexec any locally stored Puppy (I just tend to boot full Fatdog). Or I can boot it and ssh into hashbang and reattach to a tmux session with multiple windows/sessions for irc, email, w3m ...etc.

mc's F2 "menu" can be user-defined, or you can set up multiple menu's, one menu for each folder. When you're familiar with mc as a file manager/text editor its relatively quick/easy to use. In keeping with that I created a ncurses menu system that works along similar lines/style as mc (see attached image).

Puppy looks to be widely usable, functional when moved from machine to machine. There's little in the way of Puppy to be refined to be single machine specific. Trying to downsize Puppy to be single machine specific, removing firmware/modules etc. is awkward. And much of Puppy size is modules/firmware, much of which might never be used, but is loaded every time.

A combination of being able to use one Puppy (devx) to compile a machine specific kernel (localyesconfig) that also included a mc style ncurses menu system could be made relatively easy for novices to build/run. And once you have a basic network connected system running, adding additional functionality via the likes of loading sfs's can be used to expand that small 'setup' system into a full blown desktop gui system. Or just used to boot a local copy of a full system. With the added advantage of being able to sense (scan) for what hardware is actually available after the initial small kernel has been booted, but prior to downloading/booting the main (full) system.

In short, I'd suggest a TUI (text user interface) .. along the lines of mc or the old Turbo Pascal style IDE as the front end to cli actions/scripts. That tui/scripts could even be downloaded from a central server rather than being contained within the vmlinuz.
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[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1028256#1028256][size=75]Fatdog multi-session usb[/url][/size]
[size=75][url=https://hashbang.sh]echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh[/url][/size]

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#1399 Post by musher0 »

Nah, I don't like back-ports! :lol:
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sc0ttman
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#1400 Post by sc0ttman »

I boot a 11.6MB vmlinuz, a cut down version of Fatdog's Bulldog (initrd cli). That's with the initrd (initramfs/init) built into the kernel, along with all machine specific modules/firmware, so its the only file required in order to boot. Boots in around a second ...
Sounds quite good :)

I do think Puppies should offer a kernel that supports as much hardware as possible "out of
the box" though, with loads of firmware..

Doing that is very user friendly - Puppy users can just "download and boot" on a wide range
of PCs, laptops, etc, without needing any kernel or firmware knowledge/installation/setup.
In short, I'd suggest a TUI (text user interface) ...as the front end to cli actions/scripts.
A simple "main menu" or "welcome menu" ncurses script, which offers easy ways to run various
system tools (puppy-config stuff I mentioned above), or recovery scripts (fsck, etc) would make
the CLI/terminal experience in Puppy about as easy as any other distro.

.. Kind of separately..

It would be great to have ncurses working as early in the boot process as possible, although
I've no idea if it can work in the initrd.

I am biased but if nrcurses does work in the initrd, I'd like to see Pkg (and ncurses) work
even from inside the initrd, so that Pkg (and Pkgdialog) can be used even before mounting the
main filesystem (rootfs)...

...if ncurses doesn't work in initrd (i.e it can't be compiled statically), there is still the option of
using lots of "list and picker" type things like fzy (https://github.com/jhawthorn/fzy),
selecta, etc..
One thing that is often overlooked concerning the CLI interface is that it has visual
arrangement, refresh, and color possibilities, e.g. through ANSI escape codes, which
could make it more appealing to users, even, than bland YAD layouts.
Agreed. Making nice looking CLI programs that are well presented, easy to understand, simple
inputs, clear options (etc) is entirely possible, including color coding, nice spacing, formatting, etc...
Even without ncurses (which many users don't like)..

Continuing with nice CLI presentation ideas:

IMVHO, I also think Puppy should be one of the only distros to ship a modified "Nerd Font" version
of Deva Vu Sans (or Bitstream Vera), as these "Nerd Fonts" also include icons built right
into the fonts themselves.. These icons can be used in the terminal (if found to be available).

See this screenshot:

Image
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]

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