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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
BionicPup64 8.0 (occasionally) gives a black screen on boot
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mfbruno

Joined: 22 Nov 2019
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 12:39    Post subject:  BionicPup64 8.0 (occasionally) gives a black screen on boot
Subject description: Samsung NP-N102S Netbook
 

Hello!
I'm new here, and not at all advanced in the Linux world, but I like it!

Yesterday I tried Puppy Linux on a live USB on my netbook and I think it fits perfectly with my needs (daily writing and studies in my post graduation).

So, today I decided to go to a full hard drive install! Let me give you my specs before describing the problem:

I'm on a Netbook Samsung NP-N102S
Atom N2100 1.6ghz
2GB RAM
SSD Ocz Vertex 4 64gb
Full BionicPup64 8.0

On first boots the GUI simply does not load. I ran some tests, cleaning the system and installing it again, and apparently every time is the same thing. Never loads the desktop. The solution was to put any value in xorgwizard, reboot, and return xorgwizard to default setting. After that, Puppy loads the GUI.

Now, what is bothering me is, sometimes the GUI does not load, then I shut it down and it loads ok. I can't find a pattern for this. If I start to reboot here, sometimes it will happen, sometimes not.

The system seems ok, as Puppy barks when i turn it off on black screen.

From USB, it works perfectly. Everytime. I want something very practical, open, write, close, repeat (and maybe install some Doom too Laughing ), so thats why I choose to go Full.

Puppy is the only OS in the hardware.

I hope you all could understand my problem.
I searched for something similar in the forums but nothing specific like this.
Thanks everyone for reading!
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 13:59    Post subject:  

I only boot from a usb stick. When you say "full" do you mean a full install, or a frugal to hdd type install ?

In order of bestness Smile (IMO)

[best]
frugal usb
frugal hdd
full hdd install
full usb install
[worst]

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mfbruno

Joined: 22 Nov 2019
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 14:53    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
I only boot from a usb stick. When you say "full" do you mean a full install, or a frugal to hdd type install ?

In order of bestness Smile (IMO)

[best]
frugal usb
frugal hdd
full hdd install
full usb install
[worst]


Hello!

Full Hdd install

I want a Full because I usually like dedicated systems and I don't want to carry my USB stick around.

As I have class tomorrow, I decided to go back to lubuntu and try the puppy on the USB there.

I didn't even think about Frugal HDD, gonna read more about it.

If you guys wanna do an analysis on this problem, i think sunday I will have the time to mess around with the netbook again!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 15:34    Post subject:  

Hi mfbruno,

Unlike other Linuxes, Puppies were originally created to run as a Frugal Install. About 12 years ago the ability to run them as a Full install was developed in order to boot and open applications slightly more quickly. Computers at that time shipped with a single CPU and rarely as much as 256 Mbs of RAM. On your computer, if you could measure the speed difference at all, it will be in micro-seconds.

Since the creation of the ability to do a Full install, no one has worked on its development. All developments have been to further extend the potential of a Frugal Install.

The only reasons I've run across for using a Full Install is that speed difference has a cumulative effect which becomes noticeable if you are compiling applications, and possibly while rendering videos and (less likely) audio files.

Frugal and Full install are exactly the same operating system; only deployed differently. There are no applications in a Full install which are not also in a Frugal Install. Many of the advantages of a Frugal install are lost when the Full Install alternate is chosen: among these are (a) the ability to load and unload Application SFSes; (b) ease of backing up your system; and (c ) the ability to easily recover from a problem. There is also some question regarding how secure a Full install remains after you use it to access the Web. Puppies 'Run as Root' and, except when using a Chromium or Chromium Clone web-browser specifically built for Puppies, do not provide the system isolation other LInuxes employ by default.

As one of your objectives is writing, you'll probably want to have the most complete set of writing tools, perhaps LIbreOffice. At least annually, LibreOffice publishes an updated version, with new "bells & whistles". Surprisingly, my experience has been that while each up-grade has taken up slightly more disk space than the last, it has also more efficiently made use of RAM=responded quicker.

With a Frugal install, you can load an SFS and use it, and set a Frugal Puppy to have it available immediately on bootup. But you can also unload it if you don't currently need it. Unloaded, it requires NO RAM, leaving more RAM and a more responsive system. But more importantly, if for any reason it doesn't perform as well as the prior version, you can unload it and re-load the prior version. With a Full Install, LibreOffice is "installed". It will either over-write your prior version, or you'll have to uninstall the prior version in order to install the up-grade. Either way, there's no easy recovery.

The same is true of probably every other application you'll want; and especially web-browsers which are updated at least every couple of months.

P.S. You did not mention which of the many Puppies you were using. All Puppies have many of their infra-structures --the components which link the Kernels ('engines') to applications and their parts-- in common; but every Puppy is in some way unique. While you're considering re-installing your Puppy you might want to consider trying 8Geee's AtomicPup-XIX, which was specifically designed for the Atom CPU. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=943460#943460. Although, as that post notes, 8Geee will not "maintain my
updated original version, as it is vulnerable to the Meltdown/Spectre syndrome", I read that to mean that no upgrades will be published. The balance of the thread, thru November 2019, reveals that 8Geee has provided instructions enabling the User to maintain the AtomicPup with the latest applications. However, lest you get the impression that constant vigilance and updating is necessary, read the next paragraph.

One of the other benefits of a Frugal Install is that it is, by itself, almost invulnerable to attack if properly run. A frugal install runs in RAM; copying into RAM on bootup --and thereafter as needed-- files from READ-ONLY file systems, with one exception. That exception is the SaveFile (or SaveFolder) which the user creates to preserve settings, customizations and installed applications. RAM is cleared on shutdown/reboot: your next bootup will be as pristine as your last except to the changes which were preserved. This thread show how to use a SaveFile in a manner so that malware inadvertently picked up while surfing is not among those things preserved. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662326#662326. With modern Puppies, only the posts on the last two pages need to be considered. Running from a USB-Stick, the change involves using the GUI of a builtin application to change a setting: from a hard-drive, using your text-editor, a one-word change in the boot argument is also required.

Nic007 has taken this a step further. Once you have a satisfactory SaveFile, it can be converted to another READ-ONLY file-system: your subsequent SaveFile holding only settings and the subsequent applications you install until you, again, convert the latter to a Read-Only file-system. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1040928#1040928

And, of course, I should mention in this regard that Application SFSes --unlike applications installed to a SaveFolder or a Full Install-- are also READ-ONLY.

Last edited by mikeslr on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 20:37; edited 1 time in total
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 20:29    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
One of the other benefits of a Frugal Install is that it is, by itself, almost invulnerable to attack if properly run. A frugal install runs in RAM; copying into RAM on bootup and thereafter as needed files from READ-ONLY file systems, with one exception. That exception is the SaveFile (or SaveFolder) which the user creates to preserve settings, customizations and installed applications. This thread show how to use a SaveFile in a manner so that malware inadvertently picked up while surfing is not among those things preserved. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662326#662326. With modern Puppies, only the posts on the last two pages need to be considered. Running from a USB-Stick, the change involves merely that of a setting of a builtin application: from a hard-drive, a one-word change in the boot argument is also required.

Nic007 has taken this a step further. Once you have a satisfactory SaveFile, it can be converted to another READ-ONLY file-system: your subsequent SaveFile holding only settings and the subsequent applications you install until you, again, convert the latter to a Read-Only file-system. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1040928#1040928

And, of course, I should mention in this regard that Application SFSes --unlike installed applications-- are also READ-ONLY.

Hi Mike. Was going to PM you this, but opted instead to openly post it, as it is important to understand.

Any "read-only" sfs is rw if you have the root access level that Puppy runs under.

sfs's store each files data sequentially, you just need to know how to determine the first inode for a file and the compression method the sfs uses ... and you (cracker) can re-write any files content. Such detail is relatively trivial to determine. For example I can read what type of compression a file called some.sfs is using to store all files contained within it by ...
Code:
M=`hexdump -C some.sfs | head -2 | tail -1 | awk '{print $6}'`
echo -n "sfs file was compressed using : "
case $M in
    01) echo gzip;;
    02) echo lzma;;
    03) echo lzo;;
    04) echo xz;;
    05) echo lz4;;
    06) echo zstd;;
esac

As a very simple example, create a folder
Code:
mkdir m

and create a file in that folder called hello.txt with the content "hello this is a test"
Code:
echo hello this is a test >m/hello.txt

Create a sfs of that folder using
Code:
mksquashfs m m.sfs -noX -noI -noD -noF

here for simplicity I'm setting the sfs to use no compression. In practice a cracker wouldn't be looking to make such small changes and instead they're more likely to target replacing the entire files intended action with the actions they wanted to be run i.e. they'd replace all/most of the bytes a particular file executes with their code. Doing that for a compressed file content is little different to doing that for a non compressed file (just have to compress the bytes using the same compression method that the sfs is using).

Now we can change that file
Code:
sed s/test/hack/ m.sfs >m1.sfs

and replace the original sfs with that cracked sfs
Code:
rm m.sfs;mv m1.sfs m.sfs

(more likely a cracker wouldn't do it that way, and instead would just directly replace the bytes in m.sfs without going through a intermediate file).

If we extract that sfs
Code:
unsquashfs m.sfs

and inspect the content of the hello.txt file
Code:
cat squashfs-root/hello.txt

... then it will show the changes we made i.e. "this is a hack" file content.

A very basic/trivial example, and whilst most sfs's will use compression, to replace part/all of a individual files content within a sfs just involves replacing its series of compressed bytes values with the compressed bytes sequence of what the cracker wants that file to contain. If the file targeted within the sfs doesn't have sufficient space to contain what I (cracker) want to inject as a replacement for that files content - no problem, the extra code can be simply appended to the end of the sfs, or redirected to alternative 'space' (other files within the sfs content). I (cracker) could even have the file do what was originally intended it do, along with additional actions - such as installing a hidden crack that runs in the background that the user remains totally unaware of.

Just something to be aware of.

Ideally you want to load a sfs into ram, and then have the sfs being physically isolated out of harms way (such as being stored on a usb, that is unplugged once the sfs has been loaded into ram). Otherwise a sfs being ro but still accessible (not physically isolated) is at risk of being cracked.

Regards.

Rufwoof.

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 20:50    Post subject:  

mfbruno wrote:
Full Hdd install

I want a Full because I usually like dedicated systems and I don't want to carry my USB stick around.

Hi mfbruno. Blanking a usb, formatting it to ext, installing the bootloader, kernel (MBR ..etc.) to and booting from that usb, where the usb is unplugged once booted ... is very secure as any 'in-session crack' (such as via a browser flaw) can't physically access/change any of those files. In Fatdog for instance (my preferred choice) you can also save changes to that (or another) usb, so they also remain accessible only when YOU opt to have them accessible (physically connected). Any other approach is subject to being more easily 'modified' (cracked) ... and increasingly in a manner that is very opaque.

The trick is to keep data separate from OS, and only store changes relatively infrequently (boot, update, save), otherwise mostly just boot, use, shutdown without saving. Data requires its own security measures being applied i.e. regular (physically isolated) backups.

That way you're far less inclined to be a victim of ransomware, or unknown cracks that are suddenly triggered such as part of a ddos attack where the crack had been installed days/weeks/months ago.

Yet another benefit of 'frugal' is that changes can be undone with a simple reboot back to a 'clean' boot. i.e. boot, try things out, reboot without saving changes and you're back to a 'clean' system again literally within seconds.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 21:30    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:

Ideally you want to load a sfs into ram, and then have the sfs being physically isolated out of harms way (such as being stored on a usb, that is unplugged once the sfs has been loaded into ram). Otherwise a sfs being ro but still accessible (not physically isolated) is at risk of being cracked.

Regards.

Rufwoof.


Hi Rufwoof,

The above is why for the last several month's you've been recommending running Puppies from a USB-Key you can remove after bootup. Unfortunately, AFAIK, only FatDog64 and WeeDog can be run that way. Edit: see discussion of Puli, below.

Perhaps I'm mistaken. But if not, extending that capability to all Puppies is certainly a project worth undertaking. Regretfully, with my limited knowledge I can't be of much help, let alone spearhead it.

There's also the trade-off to consider: there's always a trade-off. Sad If the USB-Key is unplugged than either (a) all applications and their components must have first been copied into RAM' -- something which may not be possible on a RAM-Challenged old computer; or (b) before a 'not already fully existing in RAM' application can be used the USB-Key must be plugged in which (c) can possible expose previously isolated applications to manipulation by code 'lurking in RAM'?

I would think that the kind of attack by a cracker you've laid out would have to be consciously targeted against a particular computer as opposed to merely a robot installing snipets of code which accumulate and are ultimately assembled. A properly managed Frugal install should prevent the latter. I would think a targeted attack would require the use of the targeted computer's resources over time. I wonder if such extended and unexpected use of computer's resources could timely signal the existence of such attack, enabling counter-measures to be timely employed. Wasn't one of the aspect's of gjuhasz's Puli Puppies, cf. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88691 intended to frustrate such an attack?

But, having just looked for the above link and reading that post, I remembered that the Puli's are also supposed to be run from a removable USB-Key. However, even if that is not done, Puli's three modes of operation are:

"Mild-tempered

a. This is the default profile, i.e., when there is no /patch folder on the pendrive or it is empty.
b. The network_tray icon becomes red while suspicious connections are active. They are logged in /var/log/suspicious_connections file.

Rigorous

a. Barks as soon as suspicious connections are detected (only during browsing). Then, to prevent hacker attacks, updates the firewall's blacklist with the suspicious hosts.
b. Puli does not release the suspicious host but occupies its available ports in SYN_SENT or similar mode. For details, see profile-specific scripts such as /usr/local/apps/defaultbrowser and /usr/bin/chromium.
c. If you accidentally get false alarm(s), move those friendly IP addresses from /etc/suspicious_hosts to /etc/friends file (and update your patch structure accordingly).

Crazy

a. According to the profile name, Puli makes hackers crazy. It disables the network periodically to prevent their session become effective.
b. Consider to download and enable the Disconnect extension in Crazy profile even if you are in Incognito mode."

The coding is 'far above my pay-grade'. But it seems to me that there already exists code to determine if a computer has come under targeted attack.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3444
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 22:33    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
rufwoof wrote:

Ideally you want to load a sfs into ram, and then have the sfs being physically isolated out of harms way (such as being stored on a usb, that is unplugged once the sfs has been loaded into ram). Otherwise a sfs being ro but still accessible (not physically isolated) is at risk of being cracked.

Regards.

Rufwoof.


Hi Rufwoof,

The above is why for the last several month's you've been recommending running Puppies from a USB-Key you can remove after bootup. Unfortunately, AFAIK, only FatDog64 and WeeDog can be run that way. Edit: see discussion of Puli, below.

Perhaps I'm mistaken. But if not, extending that capability to all Puppies is certainly a project worth undertaking. Regretfully, with my limited knowledge I can't be of much help, let alone spearhead it.

There's also the trade-off to consider: there's always a trade-off. Sad If the USB-Key is unplugged than either (a) all applications and their components must have first been copied into RAM' -- something which may not be possible on a RAM-Challenged old computer; or (b) before a 'not already fully existing in RAM' application can be used the USB-Key must be plugged in which (c) can possible expose previously isolated applications to manipulation by code 'lurking in RAM'?

I would think that the kind of attack by a cracker you've laid out would have to be consciously targeted against a particular computer as opposed to merely a robot installing snipets of code which accumulate and are ultimately assembled. A properly managed Frugal install should prevent the latter. I would think a targeted attack would require the use of the targeted computer's resources over time. I wonder if such extended and unexpected use of computer's resources could timely signal the existence of such attack, enabling counter-measures to be timely employed. Wasn't one of the aspect's of gjuhasz's Puli Puppies, cf. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88691 intended to frustrate such an attack?

But, having just looked for the above link and reading that post, I remembered that the Puli's are also supposed to be run from a removable USB-Key. However, even if that is not done, Puli's three modes of operation are:

"Mild-tempered

a. This is the default profile, i.e., when there is no /patch folder on the pendrive or it is empty.
b. The network_tray icon becomes red while suspicious connections are active. They are logged in /var/log/suspicious_connections file.

Rigorous

a. Barks as soon as suspicious connections are detected (only during browsing). Then, to prevent hacker attacks, updates the firewall's blacklist with the suspicious hosts.
b. Puli does not release the suspicious host but occupies its available ports in SYN_SENT or similar mode. For details, see profile-specific scripts such as /usr/local/apps/defaultbrowser and /usr/bin/chromium.
c. If you accidentally get false alarm(s), move those friendly IP addresses from /etc/suspicious_hosts to /etc/friends file (and update your patch structure accordingly).

Crazy

a. According to the profile name, Puli makes hackers crazy. It disables the network periodically to prevent their session become effective.
b. Consider to download and enable the Disconnect extension in Crazy profile even if you are in Incognito mode."

The coding is 'far above my pay-grade'. But it seems to me that there already exists code to determine if a computer has come under targeted attack.

Well if you have enough RAM, the USB drive can be removed after boot if you boot in RAM mode. Your base sfs, adrv. ydrv and zdrv will all be copied into RAM. Also, after booting in RAM mode - during a session you should be able to load/install additional sfs's by choosing the option to copy/load into RAM, in which case you should also be able to remove the flashdrive afterwards.
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1601
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2019, 23:49    Post subject: Re: BionicPup64 8.0 (occasionally) gives a black screen on boot
Subject description: Samsung NP-N102S Netbook
 

mfbruno wrote:
Hello!
I'm new here, and not at all advanced in the Linux world, but I like it!

Yesterday I tried Puppy Linux on a live USB on my netbook and I think it fits perfectly with my needs (daily writing and studies in my post graduation).

So, today I decided to go to a full hard drive install! Let me give you my specs before describing the problem:

I'm on a Netbook Samsung NP-N102S
Atom N2100 1.6ghz
2GB RAM
SSD Ocz Vertex 4 64gb
Full BionicPup64 8.0

On first boots the GUI simply does not load. I ran some tests, cleaning the system and installing it again, and apparently every time is the same thing. Never loads the desktop. The solution was to put any value in xorgwizard, reboot, and return xorgwizard to default setting. After that, Puppy loads the GUI.

Now, what is bothering me is, sometimes the GUI does not load, then I shut it down and it loads ok. I can't find a pattern for this. If I start to reboot here, sometimes it will happen, sometimes not.

The system seems ok, as Puppy barks when i turn it off on black screen.

From USB, it works perfectly. Everytime. I want something very practical, open, write, close, repeat (and maybe install some Doom too Laughing ), so thats why I choose to go Full.

Puppy is the only OS in the hardware.

I hope you all could understand my problem.
I searched for something similar in the forums but nothing specific like this.
Thanks everyone for reading!


Hi mfbruno, welcome to the forum!

Somehow or other it seems the wrong video driver gets loaded when you get the black screen when booting from hard drive.

Looking up specs for your Samsung N102SP with the Atom CPU
It says you probably have an Intel GMA3600 video card/GPU
That uses the uvesafb.ko video driver, I checked the bionicpup64 kernel and it is there.

You can verify the video card using Menu-->System-->Pup-Sysinfo
Then use the top menu Devices-->Display-->Summary to see video info to verify which video card and which driver it is using when it is working.

Maybe someone here knows how to find out which driver is loading when you get the black screen?
If that wrong driver can be identified it can then be blacklisted so that the correct driver can load every time Smile

.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Nov 2019, 00:38    Post subject:  

Best to start over, with a fresh new clean frugal install, on the hard drive.
Do a fresh new format, of the hard drives partition, you are going to install Puppy on.


There could be something wrong, with the format, of the hard drive partition, the full install is on.

Running from the Puppy on the USB flash drive.
You need to use Gparted program to do a fresh new format, to ext 3 or 4, on the hard drive partition.

Do not use a format that was done with some other version of Linux. Some of them use a ext 4 64bit format.
Puppy is only setup for ext 4 32bit format, which Gparted in Puppy does.

What boot loader is being used and the boot entry it uses, could be a cause of your graphics problem.
What boot loader did you install?
What menu entry are you using to boot?

If you do use Bionicpup64 8.0
After you get it installed as a frugal install.
Do the first boot up.
Shutdown and make a save folder.
Reboot now using the save.
Run the program Quickpet->Info->Bionicpup updates.
This will get Bionicpup64 8.0 fully updated, with all the latest bug fixes, improved programs, settings.

Understand, strange things happening, take a little time to work out, what is causing it and how to fix it.
If you give good feedback information.
You do what?
You see what?
We will help you figure it out.

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Sat 23 Nov 2019, 06:32    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
Perhaps I'm mistaken. But if not, extending that capability to all Puppies is certainly a project worth undertaking. Regretfully, with my limited knowledge I can't be of much help, let alone spearhead it.

There's also the trade-off to consider: there's always a trade-off. Sad If the USB-Key is unplugged than either (a) all applications and their components must have first been copied into RAM' -- something which may not be possible on a RAM-Challenged old computer; or (b) before a 'not already fully existing in RAM' application can be used the USB-Key must be plugged in which (c) can possible expose previously isolated applications to manipulation by code 'lurking in RAM'?

Hi Mike

On ram challenged systems you can use swap. I allocate a 26GB encrypted swap, so when used it doesn't leave any clear text remnants hanging around afterwards. Similar in some respects to ram that leaves no remnants https://i.postimg.cc/XNPjn4tT/htop.png

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Sat 23 Nov 2019, 06:43    Post subject:  

Under Fatdog, without swap typically it will load up (permanently require - at least for that session) around 1.5GB of ram on my setup. With swap and after the system has been used for a while (settled), it chucks out around 1GB of that into swap, i.e. the stuff that likely isn't being used/accessed again.
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Sat 23 Nov 2019, 07:27    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
Wasn't one of the aspect's of gjuhasz's Puli Puppies, cf. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88691 intended to frustrate such an attack?

But, having just looked for the above link and reading that post, I remembered that the Puli's are also supposed to be run from a removable USB-Key.

Puli is a nice Pup in many ways. Commonly security comes with a cost, however in some cases it can actually reward. For instance more lines of code induce greater chances of bugs, and a security bug is just a normal bug that can be exploited to circumvent security. Puppy's tend to maintain large modules/firmware sets, some being binary Blobs (created from code that is not visible). Cutting out unused code (modules/firmware) can massively reduce down the size of a Puppy. For instance I have one boot choice for a functional desktop system that boots using just a combined 12MB vmlinuz/initrd pair. Yes that is highly machine specific (kernel compiled with localyesconfig), but if you tend to boot from the same box most of the time that's fine (just use another boot choice if booting a usb on a different box).

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Fatdog multi-session usb

echo url|sed -e 's/^/(c/' -e 's/$/ hashbang.sh)/'|sh
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mfbruno

Joined: 22 Nov 2019
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat 23 Nov 2019, 20:32    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi mfbruno,

Unlike other Linuxes, Puppies were originally created to run as a Frugal Install. About 12 years ago the ability to run them as a Full install was developed in order to boot and open applications slightly more quickly. Computers at that time shipped with a single CPU and rarely as much as 256 Mbs of RAM. On your computer, if you could measure the speed difference at all, it will be in micro-seconds.


That is a huge clarification. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer me. Now it makes sense how I found little information about this issue and not much actual documentation about the full installation. Really, thanks. I gonna read more to understand about Frugal and try it out!

I'm using BionicPup64 8.0, don't know if it have another name, is the one available to download on Puppy Linux homepage.

Gonna study more about those others Puppies, like AtomicPup.

Again, thanks!

rufwoof wrote:
Hi mfbruno. Blanking a usb, formatting it to ext, installing the bootloader, kernel (MBR ..etc.) to and booting from that usb, where the usb is unplugged once booted ... is very secure as any 'in-session crack' (such as via a browser flaw) can't physically access/change any of those files. In Fatdog for instance (my preferred choice) you can also save changes to that (or another) usb, so they also remain accessible only when YOU opt to have them accessible (physically connected). Any other approach is subject to being more easily 'modified' (cracked) ... and increasingly in a manner that is very opaque.

Yet another benefit of 'frugal' is that changes can be undone with a simple reboot back to a 'clean' boot. i.e. boot, try things out, reboot without saving changes and you're back to a 'clean' system again literally within seconds.


This 'clean' boot thing is very attractive. I don't really care about security in this case because I barely use the internet, but I have another weak hardware that I planned to create a safe environment for browsing and against tracking, focused on anonymity. Do you think Puppy might be a good fit for this?

Thank you too for taking the time to answer me!

perdido wrote:
Hi mfbruno, welcome to the forum!

Somehow or other it seems the wrong video driver gets loaded when you get the black screen when booting from hard drive.


Hi!
That's exactly what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure how to check it ... I took a look at the summary and, if I remember correctly, when it boots correctly, it's using the modesetting.
Absolutely, if anyone knows how to find out which driver is not working for me, I could blacklist it ...

But, as I'm reading everyone here, I think I'll abandon Full and try Frugal, if the problem persists, I'll call out you all

bigpup wrote:
Best to start over, with a fresh new clean frugal install, on the hard drive.


Hey! Thats exactly what i'm planning to do! When i have the time, gonna try it. Thanks for the heads up!
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