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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
How to dual boot Full BioPuppy - WinXP?
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gipsydog

Joined: 18 Nov 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 12:20    Post subject:  How to dual boot Full BioPuppy - WinXP?  

I'd like to make a dual boot between Bionic Puppy with a full installation and Windows XP which is already present in my old ACER TM (1.6ghz centrino, 1.25gb ddr1 ram). I don't have so much experience with linux because I only installed Ubuntu in dual boot with Win10 on my PC desktop few months ago. So please be patient with me because I'm very noob.
I've seen this step-by-step guide but it's from 2008 and doesn't deal with dual boot so I don't know if it's (and how's) useful, if not please suggest me a good and easy guide for noobs to make a dual boot.

Anyway I'd want to ask you some questions about that guide:
- how to format puppy partition? Ext4 & primary? where to put "boot" flag, on puppy partition or windows?
- what files to get for a full puppy install (image 24)?
- what about grub management for my dual boot (image 32)? have I to select simple? which partition have I to put it in (image 34)? have I to select MBR entry (image 35)? once this installation is finished, have I to manually modify any grub configuration file?
And some other question:
- do you suggest me a swap partition? consider that my goal is to use this acer to surf the web so i think it will use all of the 1.25gb ram;
- will 3-4gb of hdd space be enough for puppy and a light web browser? I won't need anything else.

Thanks in advance for your replies and suggestions, see you Smile
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3621
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 15:52    Post subject:  

Before we tell you why your approach --a Full Install-- is fundamentally wrong and provide you with a Step-by-Step guide to get the best results from one of the many Puppy versions, it would be helpful to know:

How large is your Hard-drive?
How much of its space is currently used by Windows XP?
Exactly which old ACER TM do you have? -- Make and model.
Will you need Wifi? If so, does the computer have a builtin adapter, and --if you can tell/find out-- exactly which model.
If it uses an USB-Wifi adapter, or a plugin Wifi-card, which?
Can your computer boot from a USB-Port?
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4458
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 16:04    Post subject:  

Best to boot from a usb.

Cheap, cheerful and will work.

" Under the BOOT menu, select Legacy boot and press F10 Save & Exit.
While the notebook is rebooting, press F2 again to enter the BIOS.
Under the BOOT menu, select as your first boot option the USB HDD stick
(your USB stick).
Press F10 Save & Exit."

I have an pld Acer Aspire that I can still boot this way.

Chris.
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gipsydog

Joined: 18 Nov 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 18:40    Post subject:  

I've got this old acer travelmate 663lmi notebook and I'd like to use it to surf the web. It'd impossible with win xp because any AV'd freeze that OS so I thought to get the lightest (for RAM usage) and easiest (for noobs) linux distro. I tried bionic puppy in a usb live session and both my usb 4G huawei e3272 dongle and my 3 usb PCMCIA worked out of the box so I decided to install puppy on my hdd along with win xp.

Consider acer's usb ports don't always work, I mean sometimes the connected devices are disconnected and I think it's due to the oxidation and old soldering joints. Due to that I bought many years ago that PCMCIA board but from 1-2 years I noticed the same problem with that. Therefore now I use only the fundamental usb devices, I mean my dongle and mouse. For these reason it's fundamental for me that puppy runs not from any connected usb but from hdd and I pointed to a full installation. If you have another puppy install solution to avoid ruined acer's usb ports tell me.
Also consider that the usb huawei dongle is the only way I can connect to the web even with my desktop PC though the acer has a wifi card. I know wifi is very helpful for linux but honestly I don't want to buy such a device.
My hdd is an old 40gb 5400rpm pata and I can extend puppy partition and create a swap partition and resize the windows one, tell me what are the recommended sizes according to my goals, I mean just puppy + web browser and nothing else.

If I miss something tell me what you want to know, I'm here to learn.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13200
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 20:56    Post subject:  

Here is the easy way to do what you want.

Do nothing to the hard drive.
Keep the partitions the way they are for now.
Run Windows XP
Use Windows defrag program to defrag the hard drive partition(s) all partitions if it has more than one partition.
This is important so the partition is not fragmented.

Download and install the program Lick in Windows XP.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61404
Lick is a program that runs in Windows and installs Puppy Linux alongside Windows.
Makes a duel boot setup.
Boot Windows or Puppy Linux.

All you need is the iso file for the Bionicpup you have tried.
Lick will do everything needed to do a correct install of Puppy Linux and setup the boot menu entries to boot it.

Bionicpup will be a frugal install, which is the best way to install Puppy Linux.
It is the complete OS. Frugal is just the name used.

Try it you will like it.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3253
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 20:57    Post subject:  

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=312346#312346
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13200
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 21:13    Post subject:  

The specs for your computer say it has a Pentium® M Processor 1.60 GHz.
It is a 32bit processor.

You will need to use a 32bit Puppy Linux version.

These two are good to try.
Xenialpup 7.5
Bionicpup32 8.0

Any of the 32bit Puppy versions listed in the Projects section of this forum would be ones you could try.

There are many versions of Puppy and each one has slightly different features and hardware support.
So, trying a few versions is normal.

The Pentium® M Processor may limit what you can do on the Internet.
A lot of modern web browsers want to do things this processor does not have support for.
There are some browsers on this forum that try to work around these issues.
But before we go down that road.
Get a working Puppy version installed on the hard drive and be using it.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer)
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5827
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 21:34    Post subject:  

Hi, gipsydog. And to 'the kennels'.

Bigpup is quite right here. There are two install 'strategies' for Puppy on a HDD. 'Full' is the traditional method used by every other Linux distro out there. This tends to be the recommended method for very old & seriously 'RAM-challenged' hardware.

'Frugal'.....ah, hell; this does get confusing for newcomers, I'll own. The term 'frugal' simply refers to the fact that Puppy, running in this manner, is very 'frugal' and efficient with the amount of space it occupies......because the whole Puppy is contained within 3 or 4 highly-compressed files.

The frugal Puppy, upon boot, first creates a 'virtual' file-system in RAM. It then unpacks those highly compressed files, and 'loads' the contents into the virtual file-system, in effect creating an entire OS that is running purely from RAM.....not the HDD itself. Of course, if your Puppy runs this way all the time, then you would have to re-set everything every single time you fired your computer up, because when you shut it down, it will all disappear from the 'volatile' RAM chips.

To this end, at first shut-down, you are offered the option to create a 'save-file' or 'save-folder', where your settings & customizations will be stored permanently. At the next & subsequent boots, this data will be added/layered into the data in the 'base' Puppy as supplied on the ISO.....essentially creating a homogenous complete system as presented to the user.

It's still a HDD 'install'. But the 'frugal' install is so very much more versatile than a 'full' one. We really need to re-name the 'frugal' to something more descriptive, since many newcomers to Puppy think they're getting a cut-down, 'poor-man's' version instead of the 'real McCoy'.

----------------------------------------------

You might find that Bionicpup struggles a wee bit on your hardware.

I, personally, would thoroughly recommend taking a closer look at radky's 'DPup 'Stretch' 7.5'. It's an excellent Puppy for older, more basic hardware. It's based around compatibility with Debian binaries - not the same thing as being based on Debian itself, BTW - and runs very sweetly & smoothly. Despite still being labelled as an RC version (Release Candidate), most of us consider it 'finished' and very polished. Radky's just a perfectionist..! Smile

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112125


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3621
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 22:15    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh posted while I was typing. Ditto what he said, including his dpup-stretch suggestion. Peebee does nice work -- far better than I could do and bionicpup is a very sweet operating system. But it is based on Ubuntu which starts with debian and adds stuff to 'make it user friendly'. Puppy devs avoid most of what Ubuntu added. But debian-based Puppies, for whatever reason, seem to require less RAM.

Thanks for the additional information and the reason for not wanting to boot puppy from a USB-Stick.

See the following, or one of the many posts explaining why a Full install is not recommended. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1042467#1042467.

As mentioned there, Puppies are designed to run as Frugal Installs. The alternate name for that was "co-existent", but it didn't catch on. Although you could create a separate Linux formatted partition and run any Puppy from it, that isn't necessary. A Frugal Puppy will happily run from the same partition on which XP is installed. XP --not recognizing its files-- will simply ignore them.

Before partitioning any drive used by XP, it is strongly recommended that you use XP tools to chkdsk and defrag.

To create a Frugal install on your XP --or any-- partition, merely boot into your Puppy. Just above the taskbar you'll see two or more desktop drive icons. One will have an "x" in its top-right corner. That's a short-cut to the USB-Stick from which your Puppy booted. It will probably be at the far right-end. The other, without the "x" will be your hard-drive. If there is more than one that means either you have more than one hard-drive (and they have different labels such as sda and sdb) or that your one hard-drive has been partitioned (and they'll have different labels such as sda1 and sda2).

If there is more than one desktop drive icons representing your hard-drives, you should examine each using Menu>filesystem partview or pmount to determine which partition has the most unused space. You can also use Menu>System>gparted to obtain that information. Gparted will also tell you if from a Linux viewpoint any problems exist. You can also use gparted to partition drives.

Once you've decided on which drive/partition you want Puppy to boot from, Left-Click the desktop drive icon representing that drive/partition. That drive-partition will be mounted and a window open to its contents. Right-Click an Empty Space and from the popup Menu select New>Directory. Give it a name, such as bionicpup. Left-Click the new folder (it will be empty) and leave that window open.

Left click the desktop drive icon representing the USB-Key and another window will open to it contents. Either at the top level of that drive or within a folder (Left-click to open) you'll see the following files:
vmlinuz, initrd.gz and several files ending with sfs. Left-press, Hold then drag each of them from the USB-Key to the "bionicpup" folder. Select copy from the popup menu.

To create a boot-loader, open Menu>Setup>Grub4dos. Select sda as the location to which it is to be installed and (if Windows XP is also on sda) place a check in the "search within only this device" box.

Grub4dos will create a bootloader that will offer to boot both your Puppy and XP. Befor it closes, it will ask if you want to edit the Menu.lst. Take that opportunity to do so. Booting from a hard-drive you'll want to make one change. Grub4dos will have written lines such as the following:

kernel /bionicpup/vmlinuz psubdir=xen64a pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck

You'll want to change that to read

kernel /bionicpup/vmlinuz psubdir=xen64a pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck

Bolding for emphasis only. After the change your Puppy will act as if it were running from a USB-Key so that you can avoid an Automatic Save of whatever is in RAM to your SaveFile every 30 minutes. After you've created a SaveFile and rebooted, open Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager, Click the Save Sessions Tab, and set the Save Interval to Zero(0); optionally "Ask at shutdown". As with your USB-Puppy, the next time you boot into it a Save Icon will appear on your desktop so that you can manually Save changes whenever you want.
The only real concern I have regarding your computer is that it only has 1.5 Gbs of RAM. That's more than sufficient for your intended use, so long as you realize that modern websites --in order not to have to transmit information each time you visit a web-page-- cache that information on your computer. Hundreds of Mbs of Cache may end up on your computer in a very short period of time. Under Frugal Puppies, unless portable browsers are used and configured as below suggested, that cache will initially occupy RAM and be written to your SaveFile, occupying RAM the next time you boot into Puppy. Of course, it makes sense to configure web-browsers to set limits to the amount of cache, to clear cache on closing, and with heavy use periodically clear cache.

Even if your Puppy has a builtin web-browser or offers to install one, I recommend using one of the portable Web-browsers you'll find on the "Additional Software >Browsers and Internet, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=53. But, it's occurred to me that I don't know if your computer is new enough to have the sse2 instruction set. If not, the only web-browser which will function is Palemoon-27.9.4SSE. You can obtain the portable version here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1027747#1027747. Unfortunately, that version is not update-able. Websites being increasingly demanding, it would be preferable if an update-able Web-browser could be used.

To determine if your computer has sse2 or later capabilities, open a terminal and enter --without the quote-- the code: "cat /proc/cpuinfo". They'll be a long paragraph starting with the word "flags". Look for sse2 and/or sse3.

The advantage of portable firefox, palemoon or seamonkey is that they are designed so that cache and profiles --settings, addons, bookmarks-- are stored in the portable's own folder. As far as I know, if you install a portable pet or load a portable sfs, the portable's folder will be located in the /opt folder. Under Frugal Puppies, that folder will also initially occupy RAM and, on shutdown be written to your SaveFile. There is an easy work-around.

First, see this post about moving the Downloads and my-documents folders out of /root. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1042255#1042255. You'll also want to do that. Then see this post. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1042247#1042247 AFAIK, all the portable firefox, seamonkey and palemoon web-browser will be located in /opt. The /opt folder also occupies RAM and gets written to a SaveFile. But you can use the same technique to move their folder from /opt to /mnt/home --the partition on which your puppy's files are located-- and symlink them back to /opt. The above post tells you how to locate your /root folder. To get from it into your /opt folder Click the Up-Arrow at the top-left. The /opt folder will be visible. Left-Click that folder to "enter" it.

You may recall that the first time you shut-down your bionicpup on your USB-Key it asked you if you wanted to create a SwapFile. It will do the same the first time you shutdown your puppy on the hard-drive. That's the easiest way to create a Swap. Although your 1.5 Gbs of RAM is adequate --especially if you don't open many web-browser tabs and otherwise take precautions not to allow cache to accumulate-- a SwapFile can't hurt. How big? Depends on how much available space you have.

Bionicpup, itself, as a Frugal Install, will need less than 500 Mbs. With your intended use, you probable won't need 500 Mbs for a SaveFile, but as this is your first exposure to Puppy, that's a good starting point. SaveFiles can be grown, but not shrunk. Portable folders on your hard-drive will grow as necessary, but probably never exceed 200 Mbs if you keep cache under control. A frugal Puppy --even from an ntfs or fat32 partition-- can use SFSes. These are sort-of-like Windows portables. They are not installed, just loaded and unloaded as and when you want them (optionally, on bootup). The largest is, I believe, libreOffice which will take up about 200 Mbs; gimp about 80; most other much smaller. And having moved 'my-documents' to /mnt/home you'll want to leave space for them*. It probably can't hurt to have a 1.5 Gb Swapfile. Possibly it won't be used often or fully.

*Puppies run as root with full Administrative privileges, including access to any file or folder on your computer. You can, in fact, symlink the document folders used by XP to Puppy's /root and Puppy's applications will offer to save data to them and open data files from them. Note, however, that a Puppy's Home partition is mounted on bootup. If it does not share that partition with XP, you'll have to first mount XP's partition to access it. Ask if you need help with this.
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gipsydog

Joined: 18 Nov 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 11:21    Post subject:  

Hi, puppy-friends and thanks for your suggestions.
I do hope the name "frugal" will be changed because it causes a misunderstanding at first, anyway of course I'll carry a frugal installation of puppy. I still have to study all you told above but now I'd like to consider DPup Stretch 7.5, I mean I'd like to test if everything I need works out of the box as in biopup did running a live session, if so I'll consider a frugal DPup Stretch installation, all right? Can you please tell me what iso to download from its thread? I remind you I've got a 32b old acer. See you soon.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13200
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 21:02    Post subject:  

DPup Stretch 7.5 is 32bit, any version.

Probably the first one for your hardware.
http://smokey01.com/radky/Woof/stretch-7.5-uefi-k4.1.48.iso
However, the other one would probably also work.
That one just has a newer Linux kernel, that should have what is needed for very new hardware.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1441

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 21:18    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
Hi, gipsydog. And to 'the kennels'.

/snip
It's still a HDD 'install'. But the 'frugal' install is so very much more versatile than a 'full' one. We really need to re-name the 'frugal' to something more descriptive, since many newcomers to Puppy think they're getting a cut-down, 'poor-man's' version instead of the 'real McCoy'.
/snip

Mike. Wink


At the risk of repeating myself again. Smile

It isn't frugal that needs to be renamed. It is "full install".

A much better and more accurate name would be "legacy install".
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3253
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 21:54    Post subject:  

I would suggest using neither of the installation terms. Something as simple as New (for machines with 250MB RAM and more) and Old (for machines with less than 250 MB RAM).
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