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rockedge · #41 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 17:06

here is some docs to scan:

https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 ... /upgrade2/

https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 ... onversion/

rockedge · #42 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 17:14

Our main problem is that we are attempting this on two completely separate host servers

Here is the thread I started -> https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtop ... &t=2530986

Mike Walsh · #43 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 18:38

rockedge wrote:Our main problem is that we are attempting this on two completely separate host servers

Here is the thread I started -> https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtop ... &t=2530986

Yeah. Quite.

Now; how you're going to move a database that large from Australia to where you are, I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess. I guess Flash will have to try and get hold of John Murga, explain what we're trying out, and confer with him as to what he wants to do.....

'Cos that's the only way we're going to get a 'Yes' or a 'No' on this.....and I don't see we can go any further until we do, really. Server location, domains, certificates, etc., etc.....until we know what's going to happen, it's all very much 'in limbo', isn't it?

Mike.

Mike Walsh · #44 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 18:47

rockedge wrote:Mike could you test out using spaces in the user name please?

Let me get the evening meal out of the way, then I'll sort out a disposable email addy and try that out for you. Bear with me for a bit.

Mike.

rockedge · #45 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 20:36

this host server is in the UK, and I'm in the USA....I've used this host server for 10 years now. We will need to talk with John Murga as to what is possible....the easiest would be to install this version 3.2 next to the original forum on the same server and let the conversion tools do their thing. That is what is recommended...

rockedge · #46 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 21:18

I am setting up a robust web server right here, I can run the phpBB v 3.2
and if I can get the sql data dump , the attachment files and the image files I can run a full conversion test run on a machine I can directly tweak and configure.

Best would be setting up on the current murga host server and run the official converter scripts as is described in the docs

Mike Walsh · #47 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 22:28

Okey-doke.

Using a disposable email, user 'Jake the Peg' created.

Confirmation email w/activation link received immediately. So; spaces are working OK. Excellent..!

Now we need to find out what might be the way forward with this SQL dump.....or whatever the case may be.

Mike.

Mike Walsh · #48 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 22:43

Not sure how much use these are (if at all), but assorted suggestions I've found on-line include transferring everything to an external hard drive, and sending by courier.....and transferring via rsync (though it requires a decent broadband speed, of course.)

Rsync has the advantage that you can pause/restart, and it'll ignore anything already copied across. Just throwing out some ideas here. Doubtless others can suggest better solutions..!

Mike.

wiak · #49 Post by **wiak** » Wed 04 Dec 2019, 03:52

Odd. I'm in... but I never did receive a confirmation email. Even though I did request a second one. I still think it may be that my email account uses DMARC to authenticate genuine sender email and not spam, but I could well be wrong...

Anyway, I'm in and looking forward to this new forum project of yours moving forward rockedge - best attempt yet since planning to duplicate the old important resource, whilst updating the phpBB and so on.

wiak

perdido · #50 Post by **perdido** » Wed 04 Dec 2019, 04:54

Mike Walsh wrote:Not sure how much use these are (if at all), but assorted suggestions I've found on-line include transferring everything to an external hard drive, and sending by courier.....and transferring via rsync (though it requires a decent broadband speed, of course.)

Rsync has the advantage that you can pause/restart, and it'll ignore anything already copied across. Just throwing out some ideas here. Doubtless others can suggest better solutions..!

Mike.

Too bad we can't just request the government supply it as they seem to be collecting everything under the sun, should be our right to get it back if it suits the cause

.

wiak · #51 Post by **wiak** » Thu 19 Dec 2019, 22:09

Flash wrote:or the forum would have to be moved to another host and I have no idea what that would entail. I'll help in any way I can.

So, do you have access authorities that have allowed you to help with migration of current site contents to new host (provided by rockedge) prior to the new forum's hopefully new design structure? Or alternatively (maybe better) sufficient access rights to ease creation of a reliable static archive of this old forum, which could be linked to, as and when desired, from new forum site? I have no knowledge of phpBB operation myself so also have no idea if a phpBB site can be archived, but perhaps rockedge knows the answer to that?

wiak · #52 Post by **wiak** » Thu 19 Dec 2019, 22:32

Another alternative to migration would be for developers to simply create new threads at new forum and copy/re-generate/create whatever they wish in there. Couldn't move entire threads that way, but that may be a good thing - many of these threads are so huge it is difficult to keep track of any useful info in them, and most thread topics could benefit from a rewrite anyway, which would be based on what was learned throughout the thread discussions. More generally the new forum could be gradually built up via not only new posts but also via cherry-picking useful information from the old forum contents and thus leaving out all the irrelevant junk (that swamps much of the useful information) as part of the cherry-picking process).

It might be useful for such an exercise if areas could be temporarily reserved (i.e. booked) for temporary developer-only access such that they could assemble the most pertinent information for a project into a new thread prior to allowing open access discussions to be added to it - i.e. rather like some of us occasionally make dummy posts to reserve space for information we want to add but don't have ready or don't yet know how much such info we are likely to generate. Simultaneous access rights to a related wiki would be doubly useful since that would encourage keeping forum discussions in sync with more polished wiki content versions.

I'm all for building a brand new forum that takes into account all the projects murga puppy members are interested in rather than simply duplicating what has become something of an overloaded organisational mess (followed by trying to make sense of reorganising it...).

wiak

rockedge · #53 Post by **rockedge** » Fri 20 Dec 2019, 00:27

wiak wrote:if a phpBB site can be archived,

Yes it can be put in a locked mode that makes the forums read-only.

I think that in the murga forum's version it is also possible to assign users specific permissions on individual forums.

The easiest migration is what you suggest, start with a new improved version of the forum with an evolved forum structure using the latest stable phpBB release.

To experiment with the organization and structure is exactly what this "test" site is for at this stage. We can organize it with many less sub-forums perhaps. Using something more concise and I agree the Puppy Linux community has grown and includes some powerful OS's in their own right inspired or emulated. Sometimes something I figured out for WeeDog suddenly illuminates the path to a solution in Bionic and vise versa.

Now is the time to play around with the categories and forums!
Please post some ideas and proposals for overall structure.

Right now we can try them on for size so to say.

^^

#54 Post by **Flash** » Fri 20 Dec 2019, 03:26

A year or two ago someone posted a script that would download entire threads from the forum. I never tried it, and discouraged its use because I thought people might overuse it and overload the forum server or something. Maybe it could be used to transfer at least the important parts of this forum to the new one.

perdido · #55 Post by **perdido** » Fri 20 Dec 2019, 03:57

Flash wrote:A year or two ago someone posted a script that would download entire threads from the forum. I never tried it, and discouraged its use because I thought people might overuse it and overload the forum server or something. Maybe it could be used to transfer at least the important parts of this forum to the new one.

That was mochimoppel's thread

I did a search and ran into this github project that is still being developed.
https://github.com/lairdshaw/fups

edit
---------------
And this forum scraper project for older versions of phpbb
https://github.com/indigolemon/phpBB-Scraper

Don't know if any of it works.

.

wiak · #56 Post by **wiak** » Fri 20 Dec 2019, 06:40

rockedge wrote:Now is the time to play around with the categories and forums!
Please post some ideas and proposals for overall structure.

Actually, I think the 'benevolent dictator' approach to initial structure is better than any 'discussion-led' attempts to define structure that, it seems to me, often results in nothing agreed on or enacted at all. Good design is nothing to do with imagined 'democracy' or committee-led decision making. Personally I unashamedly adopt 'benevolent dictator' approach to any projects I begin and publish, though nowadays I strive to balance that by encouraging and providing independent opportunities for 'ownership' aspects of much of what gets developed. But I still simply don't (formally/directly) adopt ideas I don't like... I think the same should go for the forum you have independently started rockedge - since you are its creator/instigator I would hope you would organise it as you see fit, based on your own knowledge of what already goes on in existing murga Puppy forum, and I personally have no problem trusting your decisions for that.

I do hope, however, that you would make it an entirely different kind of forum organisation, however, that gives equal opportunities, for now and in the future, in terms of advocacy for all the distributions that murga forum creators devise (in other words: is a mirror of the actual developments/distro-creations rather than being like a monument to a situation long past). And of course, I like to think that, following your initial 'benevolent dictator' design, you will indeed listen to the opinions, desires, and ideas of all who take the time to register and involve themselves; but with the caveat that you only implement what you feel is harmless, or justified, and from as neutral a viewpoint as possible.

My own view is simple: I would not like any distribution to be advocated as better or more important than any other, and certainly not in terms of 'purity' or any kind of hereditary status. Some distros developed here may have very few adopters as yet, or many, but why should a forum dictate priority through arificially restrictive structures? Linux is linux, which has its roots in UNIX, which is where I learned the majority of my own shell scripting, sed, awk, and C programming skills (on Sun OS systems) and Linux various distros since I first installed Yggdrasil Linux in 1993 (and mainly RedHat systems for years later).

Nevertheless, I have longtime enjoyed working alongside other members of this murga forum - I like the diversity of skills and types of individuals involved. Certainly it was fine when the forum was "Puppy-only", but it hasn't been that for years, and nor have my own primary interests, but that isn't anything negative against Puppy as a distribution. But despite the nostalgia of some (and self-promoting protectionism by some old-hand so-called Puppy-stewards), Puppy is just 'one-of-many' distributions created and supported via the current forum and all these distro developments have their merits (so yes, 'resistance' is indeed futile...). Over the years, however, the forum itself, via its moderators, has certainly not adapted to acknowledge that other distros supported here are at least equally as interesting, useful, or important, as Puppy itself.

Certainly no-one asked 'formal' permission to publish threads on the many Dog variants, but the forum's advertised 'do-ocracy principle' has in fact allowed these wonderful new creations to appear here. They no doubt could have been successfully created elsewhere and taken many an interested murga forum member/developer away from here with them, which thankfully has not happened (at least not as much as it might have). Nevertheless, it has become more than frustrating that the current forum has remained so out-dated, both in terms of the stability/security of its old phpBB software, and so on, but also in terms of its traditional-Puppy-oriented advocacy structure.

wiak

wiak · #57 Post by **wiak** » Fri 20 Dec 2019, 06:54

perdido wrote:
Flash wrote:A year or two ago someone posted a script that would download entire threads from the forum. I never tried it, and discouraged its use because I thought people might overuse it and overload the forum server or something. Maybe it could be used to transfer at least the important parts of this forum to the new one.
That was mochimoppel's thread

I usually archive my own project threads from time to time. For quick search use I occasionally use the method referred to above (per mochimoppel's thread) but for more automated archiving I tend to use ThreadGet which is an old script (which keeps the original thread page structure as far as I recall) posted by forum member seaside way back in 2010 (there may be some more recent variants I am not aware of). As Flash mentions a lot of such archiving would be very negative in terms of forum bandwidth so I highly limit my personal use of either of these methodologies. Indeed I won't publish the link to seaside's ThreadGet since it's easy enough to find (without encouraging its use) for those who really have a need for it. Threadget would certainly be a good way to archive some of the main distro-related thread discussions.

There are definite benefits to single page thread archive in terms of easy searchability of course though if you are handy with grep -r 'regular expression' usage you'll easy find what you need anyway.... There are major disadvantages to single-page approach in terms of bandwidth required to view a whole thread in that manner, so I wouldn't recommend single-page thread archive approach in practice.

wiak

wiak · #58 Post by **wiak** » Fri 20 Dec 2019, 08:45

re: my comment re new forum design organisation a few posts above...

wiak wrote:Linux is linux, which has its roots in UNIX, which is where I learned the majority of my own shell scripting, sed, awk, and C programming skills (on Sun OS systems) and Linux various distros since I first installed Yggdrasil Linux in 1993 (and mainly RedHat systems for years later).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X

Yggdrasil Edition and Linux kernel details from manual.textinfo on my CD (the contents of which I don't have copyright to...):

\input texinfo
@c @smallbook
@setfilename yggdrasil-manual.info
@settitle LGX: Fall 1993
@titlepage
@sp -12
@title Yggdrasil LGX: Linux/GNU/X
@subtitle The Yggdrasil Linux/GNU/X-Windows Operating System
@subtitle Fall 1993
@subtitle For ISA-based or EISA-based PC Compatibles
@subtitle @emph{Includes complete source code!}
@sp 1
The 56,027 files in this complete plug-and-play operating system include:
@itemize @bullet

@item
Linux 0.99.13 kernel

There is a later (1995) version apparently available from:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=yggdrasil%20linux

My LGX cdrom says:

"The Linux/GNU/X-Windows Operating System
Fall 1993
...
Requires 386/486/586 CPU, 4MB RAM, floppy drive, ... CDROM ..."

That's right... 4MB RAM. A puppy of a puppy methinks. 4 to 8 MB RAM was a fairly large RAM on a machine at that time...

Some computer system adverts (showing typical RAM) in magazine scan here:

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=LIy ... wQ6AEIKTAA

Yes, times have indeed changed...

Sorry, decidedly off-topic.

wiak

wiak · #59 Post by **wiak** » Sun 22 Dec 2019, 13:11

wiak wrote:since you are its creator/instigator I would hope you would organise it as you see fit, based on your own knowledge of what already goes on in existing murga Puppy forum, and I personally have no problem trusting your decisions for that.

I do hope, however, that you would make it an entirely different kind of forum organisation, however, that gives equal opportunities, for now and in the future, in terms of advocacy for all the distributions that murga forum creators devise (in other words: is a mirror of the actual developments/distro-creations rather than being like a monument to a situation long past). And of course, I like to think that, following your initial 'benevolent dictator' design, you will indeed listen to the opinions, desires, and ideas of all who take the time to register and involve themselves; but with the caveat that you only implement what you feel is harmless, or justified, and from as neutral a viewpoint as possible.

I have now made an initial start of moving FirstRib/WeeDog over to the new forum. I have also stated my own opinion regarding the section organisation. To be honest, as it stands it appears overly similar to what is on murga forum though I recognise it's a complex job that will take time to hone best as possible. But... and maybe it's just me... since trying to cater for everyone's interests and developments I do wonder if an exact copy of murga forum name (i.e. Puppy Linux Discussion Forum) is appropriate. I certainly make no apology to state that FirstRib/WeeDog has nothing per se to do with Puppy Linux and nor is it a DebianDog. It wasn't actually even inspired by Puppy in any sense by me - it was however discussed/developed via a thread on this murga forum (i.e. created by a murga Puppy forum member) - that was/is my only justification for posting about it on this old forum - it's the one I use most! and I enjoy the inter-feedback with the members I'm familiar with here...

I note also, that you have assigned Flash with all admin/moderator rights. Well... I haven't even been able to get a simple murga Puppy forum post made sticky (despite numerous requests) that briefly outlined the distros supported on here nowadays (Distributions created by Forum Members). I don't care about longterm moderator experience if that would be the kind of result to be expected.

It is summer where I am, and I've also been busy on other matters computing-wise, but I've certainly a list of things I'm sooner rather than later about to work on related to FirstRib/WeeDog and I'm really hoping for a good discussion/feedback forum for further dev work, without having to jostle to try and get posts visible inside congested threads and a forum where most all sections are Puppy-something-or-other. All distros being developed need to access new users, produce howto and utilities areas, along with development feedback threads and so on - if you are mixed in with established-perhaps-larger-userbase projects, it is a real battle to even get noticed like alone the feedback/testing so necessary for rapid/efficient fixes/production. Biased moderation is a no-go. (Yes, I know, someone will likely post to tell me to piss-off elsewhere, or throw some stupid insults and so - yeah, fine, I've heard them before ... sigh).

I should add that I'm not overly-concerned about Flash, by the way - he may be fine as a moderator in a different environment and perfectly open-minded there. I don't know. I see that mavrothal and similar haven't tried to put their fingers into the pie as yet - that would be more of a worry to me since they clearly imagine themselves the "guardians" of Puppy (despite hardly using it any more apparently...). I can't be bothered with such status-seeking attitudes, but I do find such attitudes destructive on a forum such as this which is diverse in its talents and creativity.

Cheers, wiak

rockedge · #60 Post by **rockedge** » Sun 22 Dec 2019, 18:32

Hello wiak,

many good points. I added Flash out my own goodwill. In reality it would help to have a more committed admin.

I am about to re-structure some of the forum since I used the original as the model because I thought I wold be able to test integrating the murga forum when I could get the data files. Now though I think we should push ahead and just start fresh as I am about to add some of my WeeDog stuff and experiences and also begin to add content with all the tidbits I've accumulated.

I am going to reduce the Puppy sub forums as a start.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

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