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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Comments on Puppy 2.15CE
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keilor

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Albury/Wodonga Australia

PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar 2007, 03:41    Post subject:  Comments on Puppy 2.15CE
Subject description: (And a few other things)
 

I have been trying out Puppy 2.15CE Beta1 and thought I would post what I have found so far.

First impression was good (I had been using 2.14 and IceWM) and immediately liked the improved icons. When using IceWM in 2.14 a Rox icon used to flash on the task bar after boot up and go away when I clicked on it. This stopped happening with 2.15CE. Another indication that Puppy 2.15 is on the right track is that I booted back to 2.14 for some reason or other and immediately felt like I wanted to return to the new version.

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the WOW factor and I would like to add that this is extremely important, Microsoft knows this that's why they spend so much on it. In another thread linux_chick said that in TV if you don't grab the viewer in the first minute you've lost them. I would like to suggest the with computer systems you don't get that long. You need to grab them instantly. If Puppy can grab people with the WOW factor and then follow up with good performance without the bloat there should be no stopping it.

Things that went wrong (or not quite right) after the 2.15 upgrade:

* I have an icon for xfe on the desktop. The xfe icon was replaced with a default one.
* I had the 'browse' icon configured to run Firefox. After upgrade it ran Opera. Incidentally I don't know what happened but Opera won't run at all now. It gets this error:
Code:
ERROR: ld.so: object 'libjvm.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
ERROR: ld.so: object 'libawt.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
/usr/local/opera-9.10-20061214.6-shared-qt.i386-en-521/opera: line 325: 29544 Segmentation fault      "${OPERA_BINARYDIR}opera" "$@".


Someone else mentioned that they thought Opera had shipped with someone's settings on it. I thought this too as it started with three tabs open to pages on this forum that I hadn't been to before. I would check it again but it's not working.

* Firefox was working fine with Flash under 2.14 after I installed the dotpups to fix it. With 2.15 it started crashing again and I had to re-install the the fix.

[Edit] I just thought of something else. The 'edit' icon runs leafpad and not Geany. Is this intentional?

The following are general issues not related to 2.15 in particular:

* I had a bit of trouble configuring my wireless network. I ran the network wizard and it detected the card and I was able to put in all the appropriate settings but I just couldn't get a connection with WPA encryption. After browsing around the forums I kept seeing RutilT mentioned so I went hunting around and found it. It found my network and detected the settings. I was able to create a profile, enter my passkey and it connected immediately! The only problem is that I have to select my profile every time I boot to make it connect.

* The Internet Connection Wizard keeps returning to the top left of screen every time I click on a button even if I've dragged it somewhere else. This is most annoying.

* This might be a case of me just not looking in the right place but it took me ages to find a way to change the appearance of the application windows apart from using the standard GTK themes which are too old fashioned for my liking. I found various window manager themes but they just change the appearance of the window borders. I finally found MU's GTK theme chooser and at last I was able to find and install a theme that looked like it belonged in this century. Someone else mentioned that they would like to see a GUI to customize all the various display components -- buttons, menus, icons, etc. -- and I think this would be a good thing.

And finally a note to all developers out there. In a dialog box the buttons must answer the question asked! I have been confused a couple of times by button text that does not relate to the question. A case in point: - When you exit Xfe it asks, "Do you really want to quit Xfe?" The choices are labeled 'Cancel' and 'Quit'. What the..?? Neither of those answers the question. There are only two possible answers to that question, 'Yes' or 'No' and that's what the buttons should say.

Overall Puppy seems to be heading in the right direction. Keep up the good work!
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar 2007, 10:21    Post subject: Re: Comments on Puppy 2.15CE
Subject description: (And a few other things)
 

keilor wrote:
When using IceWM in 2.14 a Rox icon used to flash on the task bar after boot up and go away when I clicked on it. This stopped happening with 2.15CE.

This is an Icewm-Rox 2.5 compatibility issue. Right click any desktop icon and choose Rox Filer>Options>Compatibility and check the box Override window manager control of the pinboard and panels. That should stop the background program demanding focus on start in Puppy 2.14

keilor wrote:
* I have an icon for xfe on the desktop. The xfe icon was replaced with a default one.

This is unavoidable unless you chose your icon from the exact same place as it exists in the upgraded version. To ensure that happens you should be careful to pick an icon from /usr/share/icons or /usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps

keilor wrote:
* I had the 'browse' icon configured to run Firefox. After upgrade it ran Opera. Incidentally I don't know what happened but Opera won't run at all now. It gets this error:
Code:
ERROR: ld.so: object 'libjvm.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
ERROR: ld.so: object 'libawt.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
/usr/local/opera-9.10-20061214.6-shared-qt.i386-en-521/opera: line 325: 29544 Segmentation fault      "${OPERA_BINARYDIR}opera" "$@".

Opera was the default browser for Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition. It will be Seamonkey 1.0.8 in R1 due for release next week. If you need Firefox you should choose the new web_215.sfs add-on when it is released.

Can't say why Opera failed with this error, but as Opera will not be shipping with RC1 it becomes a non-issue for updates.

keilor wrote:

Someone else mentioned that they thought Opera had shipped with someone's settings on it. I thought this too as it started with three tabs open to pages on this forum that I hadn't been to before. I would check it again but it's not working.

Yes. Problem is fixed in RC1 - caused by Opera default settings restoring previous tabs on reboot.

keilor wrote:

* Firefox was working fine with Flash under 2.14 after I installed the dotpups to fix it. With 2.15 it started crashing again and I had to re-install the the fix.

A function of the upgrade. The libraries and symlinks necessary to prevent the crash referred to locations that no longer existed when you upgraded to your new pup_215.sfs file. Did you examine the /tmp directory after the upgrade to replace the necessary items before rebooting?

keilor wrote:

[Edit] I just thought of something else. The 'edit' icon runs leafpad and not Geany. Is this intentional?

Geany was not fully functional in Beta1. It has been upgraded and made the default for RC1


keilor wrote:
* I had a bit of trouble configuring my wireless network. I ran the network wizard and it detected the card and I was able to put in all the appropriate settings but I just couldn't get a connection with WPA encryption. After browsing around the forums I kept seeing RutilT mentioned so I went hunting around and found it. It found my network and detected the settings. I was able to create a profile, enter my passkey and it connected immediately! The only problem is that I have to select my profile every time I boot to make it connect.

Network connection wizard has been updated for RC1

keilor wrote:

* The Internet Connection Wizard keeps returning to the top left of screen every time I click on a button even if I've dragged it somewhere else. This is most annoying.

Right click the desktop icon and uncheck the "Lock" option. Icons will be unlocked by default in RC1.

keilor wrote:

* This might be a case of me just not looking in the right place but it took me ages to find a way to change the appearance of the application windows apart from using the standard GTK themes which are too old fashioned for my liking. I found various window manager themes but they just change the appearance of the window borders. I finally found MU's GTK theme chooser and at last I was able to find and install a theme that looked like it belonged in this century.

H2O-gtk2-sapphire is the default theme for RC1. I'm sure you will find it is definitely THIS century! Razz

keilor wrote:

Someone else mentioned that they would like to see a GUI to customize all the various display components -- buttons, menus, icons, etc. -- and I think this would be a good thing.

tronkel's Icewinconfig GUI - beta edition - is included in RC1 and allows easier changes to a number of configuration items without editing a config file.

keilor wrote:
Overall Puppy seems to be heading in the right direction. Keep up the good work!

Thank you for your input. Puppy 2.15CE is truly a community effort, and beta testers are an important and extremely valuable part of the quality improvement process.

Cheers

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keilor

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Albury/Wodonga Australia

PostPosted: Sun 18 Mar 2007, 01:28    Post subject: Re: Comments on Puppy 2.15CE
Subject description: (And a few other things)
 

WhoDo wrote:
This is unavoidable unless you chose your icon from the exact same place as it exists in the upgraded version. To ensure that happens you should be careful to pick an icon from /usr/share/icons or /usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps.

OK, but this seems kind of odd for someone not used to the workings of Puppy (or Linux) Cool

WhoDo wrote:
If you need Firefox you should choose the new web_215.sfs add-on when it is released.

Are you saying that I should replace my current installation of Firefox with the one in web_215.sfs when it comes out?

WhoDo wrote:
Can't say why Opera failed with this error, but as Opera will not be shipping with RC1 it becomes a non-issue for updates.

Non-issue for me too as I don't use Opera. Smile

WhoDo wrote:
Did you examine the /tmp directory after the upgrade to replace the necessary items before rebooting?

I did but I can't remember what was in there. I'm wondering if the message that tells you to check /tmp needs to be a bit clearer as to what it's for. If I get the chance I'll run the upgrade again and see what I think. (I can't believe I said that! Can you imagine saying that you would revert an installation of Windows and run it again just to see what happens?) Another point for Puppy! Very Happy

WhoDo wrote:
Right click the desktop icon and uncheck the "Lock" option. Icons will be unlocked by default in RC1.

Not sure about this one. If I right click on the 'connect' icon I don't see a "Lock" option. If I select the 'Edit item' option there is a 'Locked' option but it is not checked.

WhoDo wrote:
... without editing a config file.

Excellent! One of the aims of any project should be to avoid having users edit a file or use the console. Many times in the forums I see the answer to, "How do I...", starts with "Edit this file..." or "In a terminal window..." Whenever you see that it should throw up a flag that says "Here's room for improvement."

Speaking of consoles, I have had a bit of Unix experience and I would have been totally lost in rxvt had I not known about 'ls' and 'pwd'! Wink
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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Sun 18 Mar 2007, 18:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
Excellent! One of the aims of any project should be to avoid having users edit a file or use the console. Many times in the forums I see the answer to, "How do I...", starts with "Edit this file..." or "In a terminal window..." Whenever you see that it should throw up a flag that says "Here's room for improvement."

It all depends on the nature of the project, actually. Unlike some other OS's there is nothing wrong with using the console in Linux, and in fact everything that Linux can do in gui mode it can do from the command line (and then some). However, programs written for the console also need to be intuitive for users, just as gui programs need to be.

I would agree that when possible we should come up with alternatives to users having to edit config files. However I don't think it's at all necessary to hide the command line from the user, rather they should be gradually introduced to it in the friendliest way possible. Really, if a person really learns Linux they will eventually come to the conclusion that a lot of things are easier and faster to do from the command line. If I just want to play some mp3 files and walk away I go to the directory their in and type "madplay *.mp3", which I find quicker than adding all the songs to an xmms playlist, and definately easier to do than create a playlist in Gxine.

It's just important to get used to the idea that the command line is just a different user interface, whereas most people are now are of the opinion that the command line is used when the user interface hasn't been written yet. These are two drastically different points of view. I like to give users a choice of interfaces whenever possible, which is why I do go ahead and create small gui interfaces a lot of the time.

Nathan

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 18 Mar 2007, 22:15    Post subject:  

Personally, I tend to use the command line when deleting or copying large numbers of files. Doing it from the windowmanager is slow, even on my 3GHz machine with the quite and brief options checked. Doing it on the command line is almost instantaneous.
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keilor

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Albury/Wodonga Australia

PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2007, 01:24    Post subject:  

Oh, I agree, the command line has it's place. I was speaking from the attract-novice-users-who-are-used-to-Windows point of view or choosing configuration options.

Ever tried changing the extension of a list of files using Windows Explorer? Shocked
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keilor

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Albury/Wodonga Australia

PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2007, 06:49    Post subject:  

Quote:
If I get the chance I'll run the upgrade again and see what I think.

Ok, I ran the update again and it said that overwritten old files had been moved to /tmp/versioncleanup and that I should examine them to see if there was anything I might like to recover. This makes me think that these are files that have been replaced by new versions. I don't know how I would know if I needed any of them or not.

I couldn't see anything that looked like it had anything to do with Firefox or Flash.
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1408
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue 20 Mar 2007, 00:19    Post subject:  

Hello Whodo,
Be proud, be very proud. Just trying Puppy 2.15CE Beta 1 and I have to tell you it's excellent.
I am currently running the 99Mb version and will be downloading the bigger Office Version tonight.
I don't believe you have to make it smaller than the 99Mb's in size it is now. (99MB's is small for a Distro with this much colour and warmth.)
IceWM has taken it a step further in attracting new PC Users. The boot up background is very bright which is sure to make a newbie take the time to look around Puppy 2.15 CE.
WhoDo and all the other Forum members who are working on Puppy 2.15CE, well done, I know you will find alot of PC users who will enjoy using it from day to day. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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