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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
2.15CE - My Gripes
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 03:28    Post subject:  

Springer wrote:
WhoDo:
Quote:
Point taken. I did listen when you made it the first time, but I've been too wrapped up in internal infrastructure and bug squishing to get the time to fix it for you. I will have it right for Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition.


Thanks, and sorry if that sounded like griping - I really appreciate the work, and feel bad I've offered only feedback rather than code - I wish there was more I could do to help, but the UI stuff, although important to me as a desktop Puppy user, is not my area of expertise.

No apology necessary. I just didn't want you to think I had ignored your earlier request. As a look-and-feel issue, it didn't get my top priority for RC1, but your feedback and support is still greatly valued. It will be fixed for RC1 Office Edition, you can count on it. Wink

Springer wrote:
(BTW - how are you quoting other messages in your posts? Not like me, obviously...)

Yep. Pizza's post has the answer by example.

Springer wrote:
Not sure I'll make the meeting (that's 4AM in Texas!), but my argument boils down to this: right-clicks, by general convention, usually bring up a context-sensitive menu. If a right click on the desktop brought up desktop setup menus or basic admin tools I wouldn't complain, (these need some consolidation in a "control panel" or the like in nearly all Linux distros, anyway), but bringing up the main menu seems both redundant and wrong...

I don't like it much either, from the perspective of user-friendliness for refugees, but I can see how valuable it is to the young lions who rip and tear their way around the desktop at a great rate of knots. Razz It will always be there. Only question is should it be on or off by default. The jury is still out on that.

Springer wrote:

If we decide we don't want to ship prop. codecs with Puppy (IMO, we should ship them anyway in Viz/Office), then at least we should make it "automagically" possible to download and install them.

If I had the multimedia squash file built, then they would ALL be in there. It wouldn't be a problem because it wouldn't be an integral part of the distribution, but an individual user download/add-on. That gets around the problems, AFAIK. If someone - anyone - would build that file then I could take multimedia out of Standard Edition and make it smaller; under 100Mb which was the original target.

Hope that explains things a bit better.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 03:33    Post subject:  

MU wrote:
Look if you have:
/usr/local/MU-rox-traybuttons/resource/mutray.rc

If yes, delete or rename it.

Yes, Mark. My bad. It will be the NEW version in RC1 Office Edition and later.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 03:50    Post subject:  

GuestToo wrote:
Quote:
What would be cool is another submenu that let you access the entire filesystem

Icewm can do exactly that ... in preferences, set this:

OpenCommand="rox"

I hate showing my ignorance like this, but what does this do for the user? The command is in the preferences file for 1.2.30 Icewm, so it can be adjusted as you say. I just don't know precisely what it does. Embarassed

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GuestToo
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 10:42    Post subject:  

just uncomment OpenCommand="rox", restart Icewm, and see what it does ... comment the line again to disable the feature

what it does is put a / and a $HOME section in the Start menu ... you can navigate through your file system using the Start menu ... clicking an item will work the same as clicking the item in a Rox window ... for example, clicking a text file will probably open the text file with the defaulttexteditor

i think this is exactly what Pizzasgood had in mind
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 15:13    Post subject:  

GuestToo wrote:
what it does is put a / and a $HOME section in the Start menu ... you can navigate through your file system using the Start menu ... clicking an item will work the same as clicking the item in a Rox window ...

Ok, that's why I didn't see anything different. With XDG menus it doesn't appear to do that. Confused

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 16:05    Post subject:  

More gripes, sorry Embarassed :

Ugly icon for .html. How about /usr/share/midi-icons/www.png?

Exclamation defaults-wizard CANNOT be in /usr/local/bin. It breaks that way (it sees itself Shocked ). Put it in /usr/sbin instead. Then it will work correctly, and the funky entries will disappear.

You have two .desktop entries for the defaults-wizard (it came with it's own, maybe you didn't see that?)

I found another extra directory (/usr/share/applications1)

Finally, Rox needs an "Open With Geany" option.



As for the root-menu vs. no-root-menu argument, in the case that "no" wins out, how about if you disable the "Pass all backdrop mouse clicks to windowmanager" option of ROX-Filer. That way you get the option to set the backdrop, and you can drag-select desktop icons. To see what I mean, right-click on a desktop-icon and go to ROX-Filer -> Options -> compatibility, and it should be the second from the top.

I still prefer the root-menu right-click, but the ROX menu is better than nothing, and much closer to what Windows does. And it's still pretty cool, just not as cool as a root-menu.

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Previously known as Guest


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 16:15    Post subject:  

i also miss the right click bringing up root menu. I always set task bar to auto hide to get it out of the way, it becomes tedious to move mouse until task bar appears, when I could right click & be on my way. Maybe redundant, but much more efficient & logical to me. Maybe a simple wizard to change to ones preference with a couple of clicks. But to right click desktop and have nothing happen isn't very intuitive.
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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 17:54    Post subject:  

At this point, why not have a poll about the root menu issue?

Nathan

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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 18:26    Post subject:  

Quote:
that's why I didn't see anything different. With XDG menus it doesn't appear to do that

it should not make any difference whether xdg is being used to generate menu files or not ... the Open Command menu is just an extra section to the Icewm menu that Icewm displays, if you configure preferences that way ... whether you enable the Open Command or not does not change the menu file at all

screenshot: http://i3.tinypic.com/2uxwhgp.png
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3469
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 19:11    Post subject:  

( Previously known as Guest

i also miss the right click bringing up root menu. I always set task bar to auto hide to get it out of the way, it becomes tedious to move mouse until task bar appears, when I could right click & be on my way. Maybe redundant, but much more efficient & logical to me. Maybe a simple wizard to change to ones preference with a couple of clicks. But to right click desktop and have nothing happen isn't very intuitive. )

I agree with the above. Annoying no right click. This is CE but based on the official release. Puppy 2.16 Experimental still has the right click function.
Have a simple script to turn off or on..happy little vegemites all round.

Mozilla is back and fast...Hooray!..Good Puppy...
Barrys 2.16E has opera....bad dog. Back to the kennel.

The desktop backgrounds or icons for those of us with poor eyesight are a
pain...personally I would like the blue lightened up.

No internet connected by default...
Hello can't anyone ask Hacao how he did it? Although as I have stated before I don't know if he enabled the firewall by default at boot.

Startup announcement is pretty good.

One glitch and I don't mean to be vague...was I tried choosing location?? by mistake, as I was just giving Viz a quick onceover look. I chose Au-English?
and then cancelled and went to the Black Scream Of Gloom...ha! ..ha!
waited for a goodly amount of time but had to reboot. Velly interesting.

Once again I ask why just about the majority of releases of Puppy not originating from Barry himself.... do not run Xvesa when it is selected...and then annoyingly goes back to the prompt.
Barrys 2.16E still runs Xvesa with no hiccups. Hail to the chief.
I loathe Xorg and only choose it for laptops.

I will state the obvious once again.
If you want Windows refugees to use Puppy.....they don't want a problem at bootup...forget it...all that work...all the pretty pics...all the hard yakka...all the whingeing and or requests by myself or others went down the gurgler.

Irritating pissant things at boot will not cut it.
Personally I know quite a bit about computers...but only a tad about Linux.

Diplomacy...I obviously know stuff all about.

But one thing I know is that people are Bone Lazy.
I don't have an XBOX or Playstation etc but one reason customers buy that stuff in droves is that after they plug it in...It Just Works.
Instant gratification and forget what most people pay for the titles.
Some pirate copies and modify the chips etc but the majority pay...
and they don't have 3 titles...the skies the limit.

But we are giving out a Freebe
A great Freebie... but who gives a hoot when the gratification =Zero.

As an aside to this I took your latest Puppy Viz to a Harvey Norman store which will remain nameless. They had some Toshiba Tecra Pentium 111 laptops with 256ram and 1.3Gig chips ...that were refurbished.
So being my usual cheeky self I asked the salesman could I boot Puppy up.
This bloke is a Mac fiend...so forget about converting him to Linux.
He was a bit wary because he didn't want the laptop stuffed up or to get a virus etc. Gee do I see a paralell here with Windows users....
So I booted up.. chose Xorg (only with laptops) and Puupy rushed to the screen. This bloke still won't personally try Linux.
But he was impressed with the speed and how to setup the Internet/Firewall etc. He knows straight away that those laptops would go out the door faster if, as an option, Puppy was on there as well as XP Home.
I left him the CD to give to his Windows friends.

yes Puppy will always sell itself..after the bloat of Windows.
But the Linux salesman has to get the foot in the door first.
All the pitches mean zilch if his product fails to start etc.

So there you are. Maybe we could initiate a bitch of the day gripe on the Puppy forum.
All the barbs, wit and diatribe could be directed at this fiend of the day, allowing everyone afterrwards to just get on with the good work.
So all hail to the Lake Macquarie chief!
All is not lost, unwanted or unhelpful. Some is even great mate'

Now that I have partaken of this feast..this beast hastens back to his kernel
Oh! me of little wit...regards Chris
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mbutts


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 231
Location: sitn on an iceburg waiting for my next meal to swim by.

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2007, 23:02    Post subject:  

i guess one thing i noticed was with the dark blue theme the minimize, restore, and close buttons being black are hard to see up in the right hand corner. might be better if they were white. it is cool that they change color when you mouse over them.....

myself i could do without the right click root menu. ive been working on customizing this edition for my mom but what ever the majority wants is fine with me as long as i can figure out how to disable it.

the seamonkey theme is ok i guess.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2007, 02:16    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
Ugly icon for .html. How about /usr/share/midi-icons/www.png?

Beat you to that one. Already changed for next release.

Pizzasgood wrote:

Exclamation defaults-wizard CANNOT be in /usr/local/bin. It breaks that way (it sees itself Shocked ). Put it in /usr/sbin instead. Then it will work correctly, and the funky entries will disappear.

Done.

Pizzasgood wrote:

You have two .desktop entries for the defaults-wizard (it came with it's own, maybe you didn't see that?)

Nope, but fixed now. Thanks.

Pizzasgood wrote:

I found another extra directory (/usr/share/applications1)

Consider it goooonnnnneeeee!

Pizzasgood wrote:

Finally, Rox needs an "Open With Geany" option.

Fixed.

Pizzasgood wrote:
I still prefer the root-menu right-click, but the ROX menu is better than nothing, and much closer to what Windows does. And it's still pretty cool, just not as cool as a root-menu.

Yes, it's certainly an option. I will keep it in mind, depending upon the community vote.

Cheers

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2007, 02:21    Post subject:  

GuestToo wrote:
... the Open Command menu is just an extra section to the Icewm menu that Icewm displays, if you configure preferences that way ... whether you enable the Open Command or not does not change the menu file at all

Ok, I've got it now. I won't explain what I did wrong Embarassed , but it was definitely me and not Icewm or XDG that caused the problem.

Cheers

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2007, 02:23    Post subject:  

Nathan F wrote:
At this point, why not have a poll about the root menu issue?

Yes, I think we've already had one in this thread. Those interested enough have nominated their preference and at this point the ON's have it over the OFF's in my reckoning.

I have asked Tronkel to add the option to his Icewinconfig utility, so that it can easily be turned on or off depending upon user requirements and without editing the preferences file directly.

Cheers

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2007, 02:32    Post subject:  

mbutts wrote:
i guess one thing i noticed was with the dark blue theme the minimize, restore, and close buttons being black are hard to see up in the right hand corner. might be better if they were white. it is cool that they change color when you mouse over them.....[snip]
the seamonkey theme is ok i guess.

The control buttons have been modified for RC1 Office Edition and beyond. They are now a dull color until mouseover, when they go bright. That should resolve that issue, I hope.

Mind you, I have only done this for the default Velvet-Azul theme so far. Other themes will have to wait a while to get the treatment.

BTW, which Seamonkey theme? There are 3, including the original, Venerable Modern (default for RC1) and Skypilot.

Cheers

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