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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Partitioning; cloning Puppy,
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Germanpup


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Germany, in front of my puppypc

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2005, 14:31    Post_subject:  Partitioning; cloning Puppy,  

I failed to install 1.0.4 as well as 1.0.3 type 2 install on a P1 166 MHZ w/ 40 MB RAM, although I ad the partitions hda1 1,5 GB linux native and hda2 128 MB linux swap set up beforehand. this very machine is now running DSL 1.4 without probs. Any clues? Do I have to bypass the Ramdisk which is apparently too small? What am I doing wrong? Any help appreciated to wake up another unwakable Wink
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2005, 15:32    Post_subject: Re: Failure notice 1.0.4 (and 1.0.3) on P1 166 MHz w/ 40 MB  

Germanpup wrote:
I failed to install 1.0.4 as well as 1.0.3 type 2 install on a P1 166 MHZ w/ 40 MB RAM, although I ad the partitions hda1 1,5 GB linux native and hda2 128 MB linux swap set up beforehand. this very machine is now running DSL 1.4 without probs. Any clues? Do I have to bypass the Ramdisk which is apparently too small? What am I doing wrong? Any help appreciated to wake up another unwakable Wink


You say it failed to install a type 2? In order to get to the point where you were ready to install a type 2, this indicates to me that Puppy booted successfully and was running. Is this correct?

You didn't state with any specificity what happens when you run the hd installation script. What happens?

What do you mean by the Ramdisk being too small and bypassing it?

If I can learn more I'll try and speculate some good answers for you.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 02:27    Post_subject: common problems  

Here are solutions to common problems:

1. Press 2 (v.1.03) or 3 (v.1.04) at boot-time so puppy will not use your pre-existing partitions. If asked later about what home partition to use, press ENTER (no partition identified).

2. In console, manually format your swap partition "mkswap /dev/hda2" and turn it on "swapon /dev/hda2", then reboot the Puppy CD so you will have more memory the next time Puppy loads, and the entire usr_cram.fs will be loaded to memory. This will allow you to eject/reinsert the CD (as the install script expects you to do that - see below).

***If you did (2), this may not happen anymore: When the install script asks for the Puppy CD, it may want to eject the CD first, but you can't do that because of insufficient memory. Check the "install-hd2.sh" near the "ripfromcd" command about this possible problem. (The "ripfromcd" function itself is in "installfuncs" script.) remove any such line about ejecting the CD. (You may have to copy the scripts to /tmp to change them.)***

See the link below for more discussion and comments. Good luck.

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Germanpup


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Germany, in front of my puppypc

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 03:44    Post_subject:  

thanks guys. yes, I wasn't even able to boot the cd, so I never got to the point of starting a type 2 install ...
thought puppy would use the swap partition hda2 automatically in case it exists and RAM's too low ...

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Ian
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1237
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 10:30    Post_subject:  

Did you use the md5sum to verify your downloads before burning the ISOs to CD.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 11:03    Post_subject:  

Germanpup wrote:
thanks guys. yes, I wasn't even able to boot the cd, so I never got to the point of starting a type 2 install ...
thought puppy would use the swap partition hda2 automatically in case it exists and RAM's too low ...


You thought right. Puppy should recognize and use swap the partition automatically. This is irrregardless of amount of RAM you have.

I've observed Puppy's behavior as follows:

It automatically uses the swap partition on a boot from CD-ROM and an Option 1 HD install.

It needs to be told to use the swap partition after you made the Option 2 install. And it needs to be told every time you boot. You generally do this by putting the command in /etc/rc.d/rc.local
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Germanpup


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Germany, in front of my puppypc

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 15:12    Post_subject:  

thanks again guys. the md5 were alright as i used these same cds successfully on other machines. bruce, i wasn't even able to boot from the cd ...
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Germanpup


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Germany, in front of my puppypc

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 15:21    Post_subject:  

maybe i wasn't clear. i couldn't even boot the cd due what i thought of lack of RAM so i figured there might be a way to do a type 2 install without booting up the whole system.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 16:09    Post_subject:  

There is a way (in the possible future) to make an option 2 install without a bootable cdrom, without a cdrom and for that matter without puppy.

I've been working on this on and off for some days now. The problems I have has to do with working out documentation for others and distribution.

The documentation is the hardest part because I have to figure the person reading may not know much about computers. Truthfully, documentation is overwhelming for me, although the procedure is straight forward and easy for those adept and partitioning drives and working in DOS.

Here's a sketch of how it works.

I install Puppy on a 1gb ext2 partition. I make a compressed image of that partition using DOS based free software called savepart.

The size of the image is about 80 MB

Using SAVEPART and working in DOS this image file can then be installed on an existing partition of between about 150MB and 1GB in size

You use grub for dos to boot it and there you have it.

The entire install is done in DOS and is very fast and doesn't requre much RAM or processor power.

The chances are I will not complete the project because it would involve so many step-by-step instructions for the novice.

It might be feasible to make it availabe for those who know what they are doing and I can simply outline what to do, rather than explain it all in detail.

------------

Anyway, I understand a your situation a little better. I don't know why the CD-ROM disk doesn't boot. But, I will say that I've seen a lot more complaints of this nature with RW disks as opposed to write once disks.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 19:59    Post_subject: willing  

I can take on that job, Bruce, just post the process and the file somewhere.

Germanpup, as Bruce said, a CD start uses the swap partition automatically, so you can in fact load the Puppy from CD. What may be preventing you is the CD drive. Old CD drives may not be able to read newly burned CDs, esp CD-RWs - try a slowly-burned CD-R, say 2X or 4X.

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wscarl

Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 99
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2005, 23:36    Post_subject: IF you can boot form the CD- for a low memory install  

IF you can boot form the CD- for a low memory install try this
use two puppy cd's in to cd drive's for HD install
Note: Some older cd/DVD drive just don't read newer CD or DVD media
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 00:07    Post_subject:  

Thanks raffy.

I already sort of started this potential project discussion over here.

http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=1737

I'll try and post a fairly complete follow up over there. I already owe sirexel a follow up. When? As as is reasonably possible.

If just finished testing two emulators in Puppy. Sort of a trip running Linux inside Puppy, but it can be done. Smile

I think I'll post the reviews on the emulators in the additional software section, prior to responding in detail on the disk image discussion.
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Germanpup


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Germany, in front of my puppypc

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 14:12    Post_subject:  

Bruce, that's interesting. I would too like to participate in that kind of work! The only thing that bugs me is the DOS workaround. Wouldn't it be easier to "backup" the whole puppy filesystem (may it reside in Ramdisk, pup001-Files or wherever) to an image then "restore" it to any ext2 or ext3 or whatever linux partition? In case you still want / have to use DOS why not integrate it into the bootdisk generated by puppy install? Should be enough space on it ...
anyhow I'm wondering if this could also be achieved using linux onboard tools maybe from within puppy ... do you see a way I could get a hold of this image file of yours?

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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 16:19    Post_subject:  

Germanpup wrote:
Bruce, that's interesting. I would too like to participate in that kind of work! The only thing that bugs me is the DOS workaround. Wouldn't it be easier to "backup" the whole puppy filesystem (may it reside in Ramdisk, pup001-Files or wherever) to an image then "restore" it to any ext2 or ext3 or whatever linux partition? In case you still want / have to use DOS why not integrate it into the bootdisk generated by puppy install? Should be enough space on it ...
anyhow I'm wondering if this could also be achieved using linux onboard tools maybe from within puppy ... do you see a way I could get a hold of this image file of yours?


SAVEPART is DOS based, free and very good, therfore the need for DOS. It there is no DOS, SAVEPART can be put on a DOS bootable floppy and run from there. The main idea is here the software - not the OS.

Almost all low end and low ram computers can boot DOS and run SAVEPART. If you don't have DOS, it can be run from a DOS bootable floppy. If you don't have a floppy it can be run from a DOS bootable CD-ROM. If you don't have a floppy or a bootable CD-DRIVE, it can be run from DOS off the hardrive.

SAVEPART saves and restores partitions (among other things). In Puppy Option 2 the entire filesystem resides on a partiton. So you do save the entire filesystem by saving the partition.

As far as filesystem choice. Puppy formats an ext2 prior to the Option 2 install. I don't know if we have choice.

The problem is, after making the Puppy partition with SAVEPART the MBR does not necessarily have the GRUB or any other bootloader program except for the default of what was there. You probably won't be able to boot Puppy without a program designed for the job. You need something to boot it and that is where GRUB for DOS makes it easy.

Once booted, Puppy can be used to install GRUB on the MBR.

You want to make and restore the entire partiton from Linux? I think System Rescue CD has provisions for this. This could be tested.

The consideration I have is this: If you can boot System Rescue CD, you could probably boot Puppy from CD. If you can boot Puppy successfully, then use its hard drive installation program.
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Germanpup


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Germany, in front of my puppypc

PostPosted: Tue 23 Aug 2005, 14:35    Post_subject:  

just checked out savepart, looks promising. Along come other tools as diskinfo, fileinfo and partinfo which all would fit easily on the DOS-based puppy bootdisk. Fine so far. Let's say you had an image of puppy on CDROM and that kind of bootdisk (modified with a menue of course for install purposes, that's the easy part) then the question remains how would you create an ext2 and a linux swap partition from DOS? Maybe it'll be necessary to create a minimalist console based puppy bootdisk with just sh and fdisk? Or are there any tools out there to create linux partitions from DOS? Anyway I'm eager to get that going. Another point of course is: if you can't boot the puppy cd how will you be able to create the image that savepart is going to use? As far as we got from here you would still need a running puppy type 2 install as well as at least the puppy cd and a cd writer in order to create that image. I have the slight feeling that a script to produce such an image from a(ny) puppy cd couldn't be that hard as all the filesystem is there ...
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