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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
Puppy Foundation
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 05:09    Post subject:  Puppy Foundation  

This section "Puppy Power" came out of a marketing idea [no booing at the back yet - just listen]

The idea was to try and promote Puppy with the help of one of our members who was a marketing professional. We created a separate forum. We called ourselves the A team and basically realised we did not want to sell what we were giving away anyways . . . and also we did not want to be separate from the main forum. Some distros are marketed like a washing powder or have logos on T shirts etc and some are commercial - I believe for example Mepis has $135 million of Microssoft backing (or did I dream that)?

I do believe that getting Puppy into hardware is a good idea. So I want to encourage Raffy who is doing research in this area - in Singapore and the far East . . .

So here are some initial ideas:

Puppy Foundation

1. Goals?

Promotion of Puppy
Creation of hardware based Puppy
Development of Puppy in other languages
Development of Puppy for emerging economies
Preparation of Puppy for Cell processor
Support for Puplets (Puppy unleashed versions)


2. Nomination of officers - that is

You can not nominate a person who is not interested in being in a post and the names can be changed

Chairperson
Secretary (places notes on Wiki and here - arranges meets, also is the contactee)
Registered members (Forum Puppys)

So the first part of the Foundation is some sort of structure and some sort of name . . . a list of candidates . . .

Let's see how we get on Smile

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klhrevolutionist


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 09:41    Post subject: an idea  

It sounds great! I think puppy should be marketed, it is to good of a thing not to let people know about. On the other hand can you go in to more depth of the kinda marketing that puppy
will take on? Such as will this be a strictly e-commerce thing. Or would people have a notion to
market puppy in there city's and towns, while offering contributions to and for whom it
would be necessary? And if this thing was going to be real, the first and most important
question, who would be treasurer and secretary. These two jobs are the most important.

Or did you all have a simplified idea in mind that would bypass a lot of the troubles
that seem to hound small businesses and self-employed?

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 09:59    Post subject:  

Maybe the Foundation can eventually do everything, like manage the Puppy sites, and finance them?

So far, I've been following the model of Slackware. The guy who develops Slackware has total control. It's a business that he is running, that apparently financially supports him.
The advantage of a one-man-show like that is that it remains very focussed.
Well, consider how successful Slackware is.

Anyway, I'm seriously considering turning over control of the Puppy website to a group of Puppy-enthusiasts one day, and then they would also handle any donations, maybe also CD orders.

So, would that level of eventual responsibility be within the forseeable scope of the Foundation?
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Ian
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1237
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 10:14    Post subject:  

I hate to say it but I think if this is to become a reality there needs to be some legal aspects investigated.

Are there any Puppy legal people out there who could offer some advice or at least point out the issues that need to be addressed.

What are the options that can be taken and what legal aspects are we looking at, worldwide or just Australia.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 11:23    Post subject:  

My feeling is that Barry would be happiest developing and being supported.
In terms of finance. This would seem to be a primary and achievable goal . . .

Can part of any finance be raised through the application for grants to develop specific ideas or parts of Puppy?

Do we go for sposorship? Donation drives? Grant applications? Bringing money into the equation means we can do more - it gives more freedom and keeps Puppy free. We have to go about it in the right way.

I would like to see BladeH offered grants to develop sections and G2 and Jesse, Ian and others.

I would like to see the Puppy website absorbed into the wiki

This all takes time and organisation.

Ian is right what is the best legal entity? At the moment Puppy is a one man "business" - though I have a feeling Barry is putting more in than what he gets out . . .

. . . so Charity foundation? Education Trust?

Who knows?

Stay frisky. Dogee biscuits all 'round.
Cool

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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 15:20    Post subject:  

And where will it be based legally? I guess Australia but I am better as a developer than as a lawyer so I have no clue.

Is it going to be a non-for-profit foundation?

The location and the financial model are important from the taxation/paperwork point of view.

How does a world wide foundation do it's accounting? If the foundation distributes the CD's: Is there a single account somewhere and funds to produce the CD's / gadgetry flow to whoever does the actual setup and shipping, web hosting, etc?

I think that we should work on a charter that will define the purpose, goals, mission, benefits, responsibilities, scope, structure, financials, participation, etc.

Will the administrative organization take resources from the Puppy development?

Puppy is small, simple and it works. I think that the foundation should also light so it does not crush puppy under.

Actually I think that we should start by agreeing what IS puppy:

A distribution? a metadistribution? A client side distro? a nitch OS or a general purpose one?

I think that the puppy mission is clear my hope is that the expectations stay aligned with the mission.
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klhrevolutionist


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 15:37    Post subject: my thoughts  

I have to agree with rarsa! And I also think it should be a non-profit project.
With the funds going towards web space and development of applications
and upgrades. Simply put we need a council, and if this is to be taken seriously
we should cooperate as much as possible with Barry K.
When I had asked him, in the chatroom some time back, he implied he would stick with puppy
for a couple more years and he mentioned it in his post above.
Is there going to be a council to make sure puppy goes in the right direction, and not down the stinker? I think we should setup a time in the chatroom for all interested and negotiate certain tasks to cover before getting in over one's head.
The main things are covering legality, I'm sure that BK, could let us in on how he has been
doing it, and "possibly" integrating a council into what he has got, with a final takeover being when he is ready and the "council" is ready
Am I on track? Or does anybody else have better ideas?

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug 2005, 18:37    Post subject: Place of Registration  

The question that answers many legal questions is place where to register the foundation. Once this is decided, the local laws and regulations become the starting point.

However, we cant waste too much time in finding out the best place. Delaware has been a popular place for corporations (which is near John M), and Barry has Perth, especially since the Linux Australia group is active there. Malaysia has been active in Cyberlaw research, but we can say the same for other countries, esp in Europe. So I guess access will be the primary consideration here.

Members can then find out how to register an offshore presence of the foundation in their own country.

I may be jumping far forward here, but I think I saw Barry giving a go-ahead signal above. Getting started with an entity seems burdensome and is mostly paper work, while getting the foundation working is easy, as people like you have been doing it. Just put the broad ideas on paper.

If you want to compare places of registration, just start a new thread on it.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 11:16    Post subject:  

Have suggested this group host puppy . . .
(The Linux Mirror Project)
http://www.tlm-project.org/

The Foundation moves forward . . .

The wiki - do a search for Foundation
is one place to steer the direction.

It has been suggested that we need
developers on board.
- are they interested -
as this is a support structure for them
and all our puppys . . .

At the moment we need more input and ideas. . .

At the moment as Barry has pointed out the organisation
is monolithic. That is fine. The present structure is also fine.

It is up to those interested to develop from this
for the future.
Barry is happy for it to go ahead.
I have mentioned my support for it.
Who else is keen to get involved

Presently I suggest the Structure is :

Barry - Treasurer
- that means that the existing paypal account can be used

Chair Person
- Ed Jason (aka Lobster - that is me)
I am quite happy to step aside as Chairperson
for Barry of course - I am not sure if we are even at that stage . . .

Contact person - again Barry as that P.O. address is provided and known

We need at least one other person
to maintain the wiki and keep the internal structure going
Volunteers?

- several people can do the same job at present . . .

Hope this is all going in the right direction?

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acklan


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2005, 03:01    Post subject:  

Has anyone approached Netscape to see if they would pay The Puppy Collective to make a cd that someone could pop into thier 'puter and be online with out having to install a program they may not want.
I know this goes against the concept but it could help The Puppy get the $$$$ it needs to develop. If they just would pay $1 for everyone who signed up that would be a great help?
Try Juno or NetZero too. They flood the mail boxes with CDs. You could explain that they could take there account where every a 'puter with a modem or HSI is.

OK guys and gals let me have it. Very Happy

EDIT: I was suggested to POST here after starting a post elsewhere. Please forgive me for ditto.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2005, 03:51    Post subject: Advised to post here  

Thanks a lot for your posts (this and the other recent ones).

In fact your new post in the Beginner's section is very close to this thread, a sibling of this current thread.

In this regard, you are already DOING what is still being discussed. So a BIG THANKS to you for taking on the initiative.

Note that I have also responded to your new topic in the "Beginner's" section.

Very Happy Cheers!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For Lobster:

Flash is already spending a lot of time organizing things here, so I guess he is the person you're looking for. (Or I might have misinterpreted your idea of "internal structure".)

Although these are the officers, creating the foundation will require incorporators (or are they called trustees in your country?). You may have to post the minimum qualifications for these positions (like, could they be expatriates? what % of total number can be expatriates?).

How much fund should be in before it can be registered?

If there are qualifications by officer's post, that will be even better.

Note: The assumption of the above is that the Foundation gets registered in your country (UK).
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2005, 06:39    Post subject: Re: Advised to post here  

We can organise before we move to a formal Foundation

My sister brought me a leaflet for not-4 profit organisation
The first thing it suggests is to understand what we are trying to do?

That means goals. Some of the goals are achievable without a formal Foundation.

What exactly are we trying to do?

I would suggest the Foundation is registered in Australia

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2005, 07:54    Post subject: Trying to do  

We need a formal organization that will

1. promote Puppy to individuals and institutions looking for alternative computing solutions (the non-profit character is essential to bridge barriers to the adoption of an unknown but very economical/promising system; plus, if it is a commercial entity, it can simply be bought by a bigger entity);

2. provide service support to users and funding for continued software development (ex, phone support, and the writing of device drivers when the makers don't write them for Puppy);

3. cooperate with providers of hardware and software that use or are useful for Puppy (ex, providers of thin PCs, Java clients, and all the other software used in Puppy).

How revenues are raised by a non-profit will be specified by local laws - subscription, membership fees and donations are examples. Without revenues, the entity can't do its mission...

Please pardon my early post, I've been thinking about this for some time Embarassed

PS - One lawyer I consulted said that things may run more slowly with a non-profit, but she could be assuming a centralized decision-making structure. With this non-profit, we intend to make members' actions autonomous and driven by volunteering, just the way things are moving now. We just try to set broad goals and policies, and combine resources whenever appropriate.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Sep 2005, 03:05    Post subject: Doing  

OK - we already have a structure of sorts.

We are set up with Barry as the head, moving towards non-profit (that means self financing) with a greater diversity of support. So in this sense I feel the Foundation has to add something.

Technical questions are answered by those with the required skill / interest

Flash is organising the forum very effectively with John Murga hosting it

Some very exciting new directions are being implemented on the wiki and though this has been seen as my main area of involvement that could change.

IRC support needs users - yes it is fun when people use it. I did have it on most of the time for a couple of months when starting it but find it distracting - like most fun things.

The Foundation will emerge if those interested construct it - I will support but not initiate.

What I am suggesting is that a working Foundation can be implemented and run and successful before any need for registering, finance and so on.

Like Puppy the proof is in the enactment not the theoretical basis.

The questions are what do we need to do?
How can we do this from where we are?

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mjg


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:30    Post subject:  

I like the idea of a Foundation. I think the key question is where to establish it. It could be done in Australia as an incorporated association (not for profit).

The other possibility, in Australia, is to form a company. It's unlikely the entity will have to pay company tax (as expenses will probably surpass revenue).

I think the association idea is the way to go, but legal advice and accounting support will be needed.
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