2.16: onboard sound won't work. (Solved, sorta)

Problems and successes with specific brands/models of computer audio hardware
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BrianE
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2.16: onboard sound won't work. (Solved, sorta)

#1 Post by BrianE »

Hello there,

I'm new to Puppy and Linux in general, so it is taking some getting used to how certain things are done. I'm used to Windows and consider myself reasonably competent using that, but am no expert either. I have been browsing this forum for a little while but only a few days ago tried to actually use Puppy. Yes, I know 2.13 is old, but I burned the CD a while ago and didn't get around to trying it out until now. I didn't think it'd be an issue...

So basically my situation is that Puppy seems to be mostly working right, except I can't get the sound working. I installed it to a clean hard drive following the various instructions I found and it seems to boot up fine, surf fine, and displays okay (I am typing this in Puppy using Opera right now). Maybe foolishly though, I neglected to test out sound functionality on the Live-CD first....

The computer is an A64 using the Asus K8V-MX board (VIA K8M800 chipset) and I am trying to use the onboard Realtek ALC655 for sound.

I ran the ALSA Sound Wizard and it seemed to autodetect a VIA82xx chip okay (southbridge is a VT8237 according to my manual). It then proceeded to set it up and says it played a sample sound, after which it seemed to think it worked okay, although I heard nothing.

Sound from Gxine, CDs, and on web pages (YouTube) don't work either.

Speakers work okay (tested with portable player), and the motherboard used to be installed with Windows and we were using the onboard sound then, so that should work too. We did have a sound card installed at some point, but I made sure the AC'97 was enabled in BIOS before I started.

I've tried turning up all the volumes/unmuting in alsamixer and that didn't help.

Even though it was crazy I tried selecting "Legacy ISA" in the Wizard just to see what it did, but I cancelled when I saw none of the hardware choices matched.

This is the output of "lsmod":

Code: Select all

Module                  Size  Used by
sr_mod                 17412  0 
ide_cd                 40100  0 
cdrom                  39424  2 sr_mod,ide_cd
snd_pcm_oss            46336  1 
snd_mixer_oss          17328  2 snd_pcm_oss
snd_via82xx            27720  2 
gameport               14904  1 snd_via82xx
snd_ac97_codec         90448  1 snd_via82xx
snd_ac97_bus            2128  1 snd_ac97_codec
snd_pcm                77592  3 snd_pcm_oss,snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec
snd_timer              23540  1 snd_pcm
snd_mpu401_uart         8112  1 snd_via82xx
snd_rawmidi            24064  1 snd_mpu401_uart
snd_seq_device          7996  1 snd_rawmidi
snd                    51396  9 snd_pcm_oss, snd_mixer_oss, snd_via82xx, snd_ac97_codec, snd_pcm, snd_timer, snd_mpu401_uart, snd_rawmidi, snd_seq_device
soundcore               9408  3 snd
usb_storage            83904  0 
3c59x                  43640  0 
lp                     12520  0 
parport_pc             32100  1 
parport                35080  2 lp,parport_pc
via_rhine              23416  0 
mii                     5680  2 3c59x,via_rhine
slamr                 434056  0 
ungrab_winmodem         2224  0 
snd_page_alloc         10008  2 snd_via82xx,snd_pcm
i2c_viapro              8804  0 
i2c_core               21408  1 i2c_viapro
amd64_agp              12724  1 
agpgart                34608  1 amd64_agp
ehci_hcd               30200  0 
uhci_hcd               23356  0 
usbcore               126116  4 usb_storage,ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd
nls_iso8859_1           3984  0 
nls_cp437               5648  0 
This is the output of "modinfo soundcore" (if it helps - I don't even remember how I learned about this anymore! LOL):

Code: Select all

filename:       /lib/modules/2.6.18.1/kernel/sound/soundcore.ko
description:    Core sound module
author:         Alan Cox
license:        GPL
alias:          char-major-14-*
vermagic:       2.6.18.1 mod_unload 486 gcc-3.4
I read an older thread that mentioned that Tempestuous had helped someone's onboard sound issue with the tip that "PnP OS" should be set to "no" in the BIOS. I tried this just now, re-ran the Wizard, and that didn't work either. That was my last trick so I have just about exhausted anything I could glean from reading piles of existing threads and a few elsewhere as well. It's (very) late, I'm tired, and my head aches from climbing a sheer cliff of a learning curve, so here come the questions:

Do I have to re-install Puppy after turning PnP OS off?

Should I try turning ACPI off as well? (Tempestuous had said that this shouldn't usually be necessary most of the time....)

The volume control should "ding" when I adjust the volume, right?

I would rather not, but should I re-format everything, try 2.16, and pray that will work?

What now? :?:


Quite honestly I am surprised how much trouble this is giving me, since I am fairly sure that the ALC655 codec and VT8237 chips are common pieces of hardware. :? Of course it's also likely I've done something wrong or have overlooked something obvious (yes, the speakers are plugged in! :P ).

Thanks for any replies/further questions.

Brian
Last edited by BrianE on Mon 28 May 2007, 05:07, edited 1 time in total.

jonyo

Re: Cannot get onboard sound to work (2.13)

#2 Post by jonyo »

BrianE wrote:I would rather not, but should I re-format everything, try 2.16, and pray that will work?
I haven't gotten anywhere with fixing sound probs. It works or it doesn't. One desktop had no sound with 2.12,3 & 4, then worked on vers 2.15.

BrianE
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat 26 May 2007, 07:51
Location: Canada

#3 Post by BrianE »

Well that's not encouraging to hear....

I'm currently debating if I should bother trying 2.16 or just stepping up to a (much larger) distro, since this system isn't exactly old. Puppy was/is attractive because it seems capable of offering the functionality I need, and is only about 10% the size of most other distros.

I was just so sure that there must have been some way to fix this problem because I didn't think my hardware is that rare.....

...it would also be disappointing to upgrade to 2.16 and then find out that fixes it because it does not shed any light on the subject and I find that kind of "fix" annoying (the forum is full of stories like that). It's like saying, "Yeah, I finally got rid of that weird vibration in my car - by buying a new one!" :P


If someone has reason to believe that just switching over to 2.16 really is my best bet for this situation (not just shotgun approach), please let me know.

jonyo

#4 Post by jonyo »

There are many fixes, I just don't know much about it. Haven't spent any time on sorting out a sound prob, on a particualr machine.

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Flash
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#5 Post by Flash »

What's the problem with trying 2.16? You don't have to install it to the hard drive to see if your sound will work. Just burn a live CD of the 2.16 iso, and boot it with "puppy pfix=ram" boot option so it ignores the hard disk drive. It's only a few cents and a few grams of polycarbonate. You can even use a rewritable CD (or DVD) if you have one. (You'll have to erase CD-RW and DVD-RW before burning them, but DVD+RW doesn't need to be erased first.)

BrianE
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Location: Canada

#6 Post by BrianE »

I know, I know.... I guess it's a personal hangup of mine, but I prefer to fix problems knowing what the problem really was, rather than just start replacing things. This is based on the assumption though, that there is something wrong with my particular setup, and that normally it should have worked.....

I also don't like to upgrade things if everything else works, but I didn't know you could still just run a Live CD over the existing install... I'll try that this afternoon if there aren't any other suggestions. Thanks.

jonyo

#7 Post by jonyo »

Not sure what happens on a HD install, but in a live CD save file to HD setup, if you install an upgrade disk, shortly into the boot, it pauses & you only have
5 SECONDS to at least punch in something..like the 'p' in puppy pfix=ram to stop the boot; otherwise pup continues on to upgrade. :shock:

On one of my setups, from 2.13 (or 4..forget) to 2.15, I realized I did not know how to upgrade so that things remained as they were. Someone mentioned something about dependencies afterwards.

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Béèm
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#8 Post by Béèm »

BrianE,

Just a thought.

Persuing to fix an old release might not invoke the attention you expect.
Trying the latest one and maybe having the same issue will give you as much satisfaction as you expect and you might have more attention to the issue.

BrianE
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat 26 May 2007, 07:51
Location: Canada

#9 Post by BrianE »

Well I tried 2.16.1 and that didn't work either. (I did like how the desktop looked though.)

I noticed my MB manual's wording was a bit odd for the AC'97 audio, so just in case I disabled it in BIOS and after that ALSA set it up okay but anything that tried to play a sound crashed, so I changed it back.

I also methodically tried all sorts of different permutations of enabling and changing settings in alsamixer, but nothing helped. I had read somewhere to try enabling everything but the external amp but that didn't work either.

Question: Is the volume control slider supposed to "ding" like it does in Windows? I'm just looking for a quick way to test.


Okay, now what? :?:

Thanks.... (sigh :( )

GuestToo
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#10 Post by GuestToo »

i don't think the volume slider dings

you could try the Ubuntu Comprehensive Sound Problem Guide: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205449

for example, what sound devices does this list:

aplay -l

what are the results of typing:

scanpci

do you get any error message from this:

aplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav

does it do anything if you type:

rmmod snd_via82xx
modprobe snd_via82xx ac97_quirk=0


does trying ac97_quirk=1 (or 2, 3, 4) do anything?

etc etc etc

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Béèm
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#11 Post by Béèm »

I can't be of much help, just to say I have a Thinkpad R40 with AC'97 audio controller.
When I issue:

Code: Select all

lsmod | grep "snd"
I get

Code: Select all

sh-3.00# lsmod | grep "snd"
snd_mixer_oss          17328  0 
snd_intel8x0           32684  0 
snd_ac97_codec         90448  1 snd_intel8x0
snd_ac97_bus            2128  1 snd_ac97_codec
snd_pcm                77592  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec
snd_timer              23540  1 snd_pcm
snd                    51396  5 snd_mixer_oss,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer
soundcore               9408  1 snd
snd_page_alloc         10008  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
sh-3.00# 
This might give you a clue to see if there is a module missing.

For the volume control.
On the PC are two buttons for sound louder and lower. Pushing the buttons gives a bip each time and this is OS independant.

As for the slider, nor in Windows nor in Puppy I have a sound when I activate it, but I am not sure about which slider you speak.

GuestToo
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#12 Post by GuestToo »

most sound cards, whether intel or via or onboard or a soundblaster card uses the ac97 codec ... the ac97 codec is the digital to analog convertor

jonyo

#13 Post by jonyo »

Dunno why you mention "the ac97 codec is the digital to analog convertor"
here or what it means? :oops:
GuestToo wrote:most sound cards, whether intel or via or onboard or a soundblaster card uses the ac97 codec ... the ac97 codec is the digital to analog convertor

jonyo

#14 Post by jonyo »

Much easier to sort things out runnin live cd save file, before doing an install.
BrianE wrote:I also don't like to upgrade things if everything else works

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Flash
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#15 Post by Flash »

jonyo wrote:... in a live CD save file to HD setup, if you install an upgrade disk, shortly into the boot, it pauses & you only have
5 SECONDS to at least punch in something..like the 'p' in puppy pfix=ram to stop the boot; otherwise pup continues on to upgrade. :shock: ...
jonyo, "ctrl-p" will pause the boot process indefinitely. You can take your time reading and typing, then resume booting with "enter" :)

jonyo

#16 Post by jonyo »

Wish I'da known that at the time :P ..every little bit helps thx. Afaik though, after the 5 second thing (at least live CD) the upgrade'd begin & dunno what might happen by hittin ctrl-p at that point.
Flash wrote:
jonyo wrote:... in a live CD save file to HD setup, if you install an upgrade disk, shortly into the boot, it pauses & you only have
5 SECONDS to at least punch in something..like the 'p' in puppy pfix=ram to stop the boot; otherwise pup continues on to upgrade. :shock: ...
jonyo, "ctrl-p" will pause the boot process indefinitely. You can take your time reading and typing, then resume booting with "enter" :)
Last edited by jonyo on Mon 28 May 2007, 20:22, edited 1 time in total.

iscraigh
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#17 Post by iscraigh »

Okay I am going to add to this

Same onboard sound chip, weird thing is I can play .mp3 files and .ogg files but not .wav or say youtube videos. .avi movies work ok.

any ideas?

Craig

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Béèm
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#18 Post by Béèm »

GuestToo wrote:most sound cards, whether intel or via or onboard or a soundblaster card uses the ac97 codec ... the ac97 codec is the digital to analog convertor
Thank you G2 for explaining this. I thought AC'97 was the hw sound card, but it's only the DAC.
Now I understand why the PCI device is Intel 82801DB-ICH4

BrianE
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Joined: Sat 26 May 2007, 07:51
Location: Canada

#19 Post by BrianE »

Thanks for everyone's replies.
GuestToo wrote:aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: V8237 [VIA 8237], device 0: VIA 8237 [VIA 8237]
Subdevices: 4/4
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
Subdevice #1: subdevice #1
Subdevice #2: subdevice #2
Subdevice #3: subdevice #3
card 0: V8237 [VIA 8237], device 1: VIA 8237 [VIA 8237]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
scanpci
I basically get all the controllers on the PCI bus (neat :) ) and it lists the VT8237 as my PCI and ISA bridge, but I assume the relevant one is:

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x11 function 0x05: vendor 0x1106 device 0x3059
VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller
do you get any error message from this:

aplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav
Hmm... it thinks it's playing it:

Playing WAVE '/usr/share/audio/2barks.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 8000 Hz, Mono
does it do anything if you type:

rmmod snd_via82xx
modprobe snd_via82xx ac97_quirk=0

does trying ac97_quirk=1 (or 2, 3, 4) do anything?
The first command gives:
ERROR: Module snd_via82xx is in use

And changing the Quirk does not output anything and also does not let sound play when I test it either.

I read that thread over at Ubuntuforums and I realized it's the same thing I read earlier, which is where I got the idea to try turning everything on in alsamixer.

From Béèm's suggestion I get:

Code: Select all

sh-3.00# lsmod | grep "snd"
snd_pcm_oss            46336  0 
snd_mixer_oss          17328  2 snd_pcm_oss
snd_via82xx            27720  3 
gameport               14904  1 snd_via82xx
snd_ac97_codec         90448  1 snd_via82xx
snd_ac97_bus            2128  1 snd_ac97_codec
snd_pcm                77592  4 snd_pcm_oss,snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec
snd_timer              23540  1 snd_pcm
snd_page_alloc         10008  2 snd_via82xx,snd_pcm
snd_mpu401_uart         8112  1 snd_via82xx
snd_rawmidi            24064  1 snd_mpu401_uart
snd_seq_device          7996  1 snd_rawmidi
snd                    51396  12 snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device
soundcore               9408  2 snd 
I notice I have a few extra things in there that Béèm does not, but I am not sure if that is because I tried turning on everything in alsamixer or not... Does anyone see anything out of place?

BrianE
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Joined: Sat 26 May 2007, 07:51
Location: Canada

#20 Post by BrianE »

Hmm.... (or uh-oh?)

Looking at the Ubuntuforums page again I noticed that it suggested doing a lspci -v and that I should see a sound device listed.

I looked at the output of that command I do not see anything that I can identify as a sound device listed. It gives a lot of information like IRQs, memory addresses, and some other info, but unless I really don't know what I'm looking for I don't see anything related to the sound system...

The forum page says that this may be because it is not enabled in BIOS (it is), or the PCI card isn't installed/seated.... I hope this doesn't mean I have a hardware failure and the sound chip is fried! :shock:

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