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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
What is best distro for compiling?
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2005, 05:15    Post_subject:  What is best distro for compiling?  

Testing Mandrake 10.2:

One problem is that it uses gcc-3.4.3, and that means that C++ apps need libstdc++.so.6. (807K)

In Mandrake 9.2, C++ apps needed libstdc++.so.5. (717K)

If I move up to using Mandrake 10.2, then Puppy will need to have BOTH of these library files ...grumble, grumble...

One other thing I just have to mention. It's not related to compiling, but I have to make a comment. I am astounded how bad Nautilus, the file manager, has become. It had some limitations in 9.2, now it is unusable.

So, one thing I'm wondering about... why not go for Mandrake 10.1, as, I think, haven't confirmed this definitely, it still uses the old libstdc++.so.5?

I'm wondering what the situation is with other distros... Fedora Core 3 has moved up to gcc-3.4. Maybe they all will...
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2005, 05:23    Post_subject:  

You have Mandriva 2005, and debian(Progeny) as an alternative choice. Or even turbolinux of many different platforms.These distros are on a convergence course by the membership of LCC(Linux core consortium).

On the otherhand, Puppy goes by the Linux kernel versions such as 2.6.11.7 and later versions. And stay with static application programs, which does not follow any Mandrake directions of KDE and gnome inclusions.

This points out the inventiveness of Puppy with plug-ins to static applications.

Keep it up, and Puppy will never be obsoleted; unless plug-ins are abandoned. Modernization is mere change of a plug-in?

After all, Linux is merely kernels to operate the computer hardware and getting on the internet with all desktop functions in the browser. Someday, the server will also be included in the browser which can provide website(bbs) for everyone to visit via apache and email packets virtual lan connection(instant messaging extension). This may be done in the posix microkernels in the 2.8.x kernel version; I am now proposing.

Good Luck.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 00:59    Post_subject:  

The more I'm using mandrake 10.2, the less I'm liking it.

So, hanging out for the arrival of Ubuntu.

I'm also going to order Vector Linux. GuestToo uses Vector.
It looks good, based on Slackware.
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 05:17    Post_subject:  

Ubunto and slackware all have gnome(no QT) problems(too many cooks spoiled the soup) of upgrading compatibility. Slackware has since stuck to KDE. Slax5.0 has problems from slackware backward compatibility, kernel dependencency issues(same as Mandrake's baggages). Ubunto(RedHat) has KDE version now, which is more organized because KDE(QT) has a large staff to keep bugs down.

Kanotix maybe more interesting for you to look at, with its debian roots of platform versatility? Native is always betterand faster than emulation, such as qemu. Puppy then can cross platforms and be used on IBM mainframes(PowerPC cpus).

Still, Puppy had kernel 2.6.11 and Mozilla already; you just need more small plug-ins for Mozilla. Small plug-ins for email client to do webhosting with email webpage downloads(automatic email responses), which I am proposing for Austrumi to abandon Apache, Mysql and even Skype. Sylpheed is perfect for experimentation. Maybe Guest Too would be interested. Email with attached audio file plug-in is to be used for telephony and answering machine email, replacing Skype.

Good Luck.
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 06:33    Post_subject: Ubuntu synaptic  

Here is an image of the easy to install synaptic development options with ubuntu (sorry the file is so large and black and white (tsk tsk - that Lobster!)

Anyway if you prefer Vector then I am happy to use slackware - though I like John Murga, am a bit of a Debian Nut

GuestToo - have you sent off for or used Ubuntu or is a slack based distro (which I believe Debian is based on) closer to a "simple, pure" Linux and hence a better choice?

What I want is the easisest and most accessible development environment for those who dare to try for the coveted title of Puppy Master (Only issued to you and GuestToo thus far)

The fact that GuestToo is using Vector makes it worth a download . . .
(I started and then thought better of it - not essential for me)

I managed to create an obj file with "Ubuntu make" (not even sure what this all means) but I feel it might be the first stage of creating a compiled xbasic program that can run on Puppy .[/list]
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 15:27    Post_subject:  

a good package system like apt or urpmi or portage makes it easier to keep your binaries updated

Debian tends to have older versions of programs ... so it tends to be more stable, but not cutting edge ... this can be a problem if you need the latest version of Gaim for example ... to update Gaim so it can connect to Yahoo, you may need to update 200 or 300 megs of system files too ... i've actually had less trouble with urpmi than i have with apt

Slack really doesn't have a package management system ... because it doesn't modify it's packages, most packages just work ... i tried Slapt-get with Vector, it works, i haven't used it much

Vector originally was aimed at older slower hardware, and was a smaller, lighter, leaner, faster distro ... i use Vector 4.3, which is based on Slack but is smaller and faster (and easier to install) ... some of the library files are missing, so sometimes you can get problems compiling programs that need library files that Slack would have but Vector 4.3 doesn't

the Vector SOHO versions are larger and have KDE ... i prefer the standard version myself ... it comes with Fluxbox and Icewm (and Xfce, but i don't like it) and Rox, so it is a bit like Puppy anyway

when i installed Vector 4.3, i didn't intend to keep it for very long ... Vector never worked right with my sound card before ... but 4.3's Alsa sound worked perfectly, and after tweaking Vector a bit, i found i liked it so much, i hated to get rid of it ... so i still have it installed ... i use it to compile Puppy apps and for xawtv (i don't know how well xawtv would work with Puppy's xvesa ... mplayer works well)

but this is very much a personal choice ... what one person likes, another person will not like

Vector doesn't have a package management system, and there are some libraries missing that another distro probably would have

i haven't tried the latest versions of Mandrake ... my ps2 keyboard is dead in Mandrake (and Suse) since they switched to the 2.6 kernel and xorg

i downloaded ubantu and didn't really like it ... but i never liked Gnome anyway (personal preferences again), so that isn't surprising ... i haven't tried the KDE version of ubantu ... my favorite distros are Puppy and Vector, in that order ... they just seem to get the job done quicky and easily ... but hey, i like evilwm, so my preferences are probably a little skewed anyway
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JohnMurga
Site Admin


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Far to the east

PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 18:26    Post_subject:  

Hey

Quote:
Debian tends to have older versions of programs ... so it tends to be more stable, but not cutting edge ... this can be a problem if you need the latest version of Gaim for example ... to update Gaim so it can connect to Yahoo, you may need to update 200 or 300 megs of system files too ... i've actually had less trouble with urpmi than i have with apt


I think the the GAim example is a miss-representation, if you want to upgrade GAim to the version on the "unstable" branch (which will be pretty cutting edge), it is easy enough to do ... If you have to update a 100Mb of system files it probably due to a hack you did earlier on, and with Debian you'll be able to fix it as you are always in control (if you can bother to RTFM).

So I wasn't going to say anything, but after what I consider an unjustified comment about Debian, I have to say my experience with Vector (4.3) where exatly the other way round. I found Vector to be buggy, sloppily put together and generally a pain. I wasted a lot of time on it and eventually moved the machine to Debian SID rather than put up with it (which took me less time to set up and actually worked).

Now Ubuntu is a further evolution of Debian, it has a different repository which is more tightly focussed than the Debian repository at large, so installing things there and managing the process is even easier.

Sorry ... I just hate it when people miss-represent Debian Smile

And don't get started on GNome Vs KDE Wink

(Gnome rocks)

Cheers
JohnM
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 18:57    Post_subject:  

I tried setting up KDE. It got stuck whenever it tried loading.
I tried setting up GNOME. It worked. But it was slow. But then, gnomes generally aren't smart to begin with. Then I reinstalled the entire distro from scratch. This time GNOME was buggy. Wouldn't load icons correctly. Whined and complained about applications. Ticked me off.

I installed IceWM. It worked. It was faster. It looked better. It was less tyrannical. It was cooler. Much cooler. Ice cold, in fact. Plus, it worked on the first try. I'm always impressed when something works right away, because almost nothing ever does for me. Except Sim City 4, which only worked the first time.

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Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 May 2005, 20:11    Post_subject:  

The latest Vector 5 beta2 looks interesting.
Has 2.6.11.7 kernel, also some kind of new package management.
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon 23 May 2005, 05:08    Post_subject:  

Did you notice the difference in formats.
When you post with 800x600 and 1023x768 resolution in PHPBB2.0 forums?

My posts are in 800x600 resolution.
Others posted in 1024x768, overflows horizontally on my screen.
Linux has this kind of problems galore. Too many cooks spoiled the soup, again and again.
So stable versions are a virtue, rather than a pain.
Its cutting edge when you add plug-ins to tcl/tk software.
Such as wizzards, multisession backup, etc.
Now maybe email client to do webhosting and telephony.
You only need one super apllication program to make your name in the Linux community.

In choosing operating system,
you have to start with a large organization, to have the muscle power to update correctly.
Never choose small organization that will eventually leave you high and dry.

Puppy has a large enough loosely organized group
to do some good for the kind of operating system development.
Shifting to slackware will be too taxing.
My proposed 2.8.x will come soon enough.
It will just be a package of posix with wizzards to support Linux hdd operating system.
Wizzards to determine how many threads to be installed.
But staying with Linux kernels of ethernet, xwindows, udev and /dev drivers.
Which will be supported by single or double threads.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 23 May 2005, 12:45    Post_subject:  

BarryK wrote:
The latest Vector 5 beta2 looks interesting.
Has 2.6.11.7 kernel, also some kind of new package management.


I'm running VL 5.0STD beta2 right now. So far, I'm very impressed!
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 23 May 2005, 21:25    Post_subject: Horses for courses  

I downloaded and installed Vector 4.3
At one point it installed 140% of the kernel - so I was certainly getting my monies worth.

My first efforts on Linux were with slackware - it was more frightening than Judge Dredds laptop (if you will pardon the expression)Embarassed

In comparison I was able to install vector on HD in one go. Gosh Linux has moved on . . .

It is interesting how we have different impressions of a distro. I agree with John. I prefer Gnome, Ubuntu and Debian . . .

As a command line kernel compiling guru, GuestToo prefers Linux and Barry seems very keen on the beta of Vector - good. We have choice, we have preferences.

I tend more towards the end user, GUI and if it ain't easy - make it so philosophy. I use the command line because no other option works and then only. Yep I am a Linux wimp.

Gosh was I glad to get back into Puppy after Vector . . .
Smile
For those aspiring to develop out of Linux wimpishness and develop their understanding, perhaps this Linux Rute Guide - which I am finding most enlightening . . .


http://wireless.ictp.trieste.it/school_2002/lectures/fonda/MoreLinux/rute/rute.html

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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 05:02    Post_subject:  

Everybody loves click and run, drag and drop, with cut and paste?

Apple started and Microsoft followed for the same reasons. Why Linux is still behind?
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alainb

Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 06:06    Post_subject: Re: What is best distro for compiling?  

BarryK wrote:
Testing Mandrake 10.2:

One problem is that it uses gcc-3.4.3, and that means that C++ apps need libstdc++.so.6. (807K)

In Mandrake 9.2, C++ apps needed libstdc++.so.5. (717K)
.../....

I'm wondering what the situation is with other distros... Fedora Core 3 has moved up to gcc-3.4. Maybe they all will...


Fedora core 3 use gcc 3.4 == libstdc++.so.6
Fedora core 4 seems to provide a preview af gcc4=> libstdc++.so.6 , i dont know if it is the native compiler of the distro

the gcc team (AFAIK) didn't like the LSB 2.0 which impose the gcc3.3 compiler, maybe that explain why the offcial release of gcc3.3 are not done after 3.3.3 !

I would say:
- if you want to step into the future use fedora core 4 , and gcc4 and step on all bugs Wink
- if you need very stable things, use debian sarge (its now frozen Smile and gcc 3.3
- last choice : keep your development tools for one more year, and then make the BIG step to gcc 4.x

Regards
Alain
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 09:37    Post_subject: Re: Horses for courses  

Lobster wrote:
I downloaded and installed Vector 4.3


Isn't 4.3 an old version?
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