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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
TS3.3ce - New X-Wizard
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paulh177


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 875
Location: ST862228

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2007, 17:43    Post_subject:  

No , that was when it was connected! And here's another one, right off the screen!
Code:
vbe: VESA 3.0 detected.
oem: Brookdale-G Graphics Chip Accelerated VGA BIOS
vendor: Intel Corporation
product: Brookdale-G Graphics Controller Hardware Version 0.0
memory: 8000kb
mode: 1280x1024x256
mode: 640x480x16m
mode: 800x600x16m
mode: 1024x768x32k
mode: 1024x768x64k
mode: 1024x768x16m
mode: 1280x1024x64k
mode: 1280x1024x16m
mode: 132x25 (text)
mode: 132x43 (text)
mode: 132x50 (text)
mode: 132x60 (text)
mode: 640x480x256
mode: 800x600x256
mode: 1024x768x256
mode: 640x480x64k
mode: 800x600x64k
edid:
edidfail


thanks for you attention

Paul
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paulh177


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 875
Location: ST862228

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2007, 17:47    Post_subject:  

OK I experimented a little with ddcprobe. if I run it "ddcprobe" I get the output I posted. If I run "ddcprobe -" (or with -h -v - or whatever) it gives the following:
Code:
 vbe: VESA 3.0 detected.
oem: Brookdale-G Graphics Chip Accelerated VGA BIOS
vendor: Intel Corporation
product: Brookdale-G Graphics Controller Hardware Version 0.0
memory: 8000kb
mode: 1280x1024x256
mode: 640x480x16m
mode: 800x600x16m
mode: 1024x768x32k
mode: 1024x768x64k
mode: 1024x768x16m
mode: 1280x1024x64k
mode: 1280x1024x16m
mode: 132x25 (text)
mode: 132x43 (text)
mode: 132x50 (text)
mode: 132x60 (text)
mode: 640x480x256
mode: 800x600x256
mode: 1024x768x256
mode: 640x480x64k
mode: 800x600x64k
edid:
edid: 1 3
id: 7002
eisa: DEL7002
serial: 42304144
manufacture: 2 2002
input: sync on green, analog signal.
screensize: 30 23
gamma: 2.870000
dpms: RGB, active off, suspend, standby
timing: 640x480@60 Hz (VGA)
timing: 640x480@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@60 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 1024x768@75 Hz (VESA)
ctiming: 1024x768@85
ctiming: 800x600@85
ctiming: 640x480@85
ctiming: 1280x1024@60
dtiming: 1024x768@93
monitorserial: 93CUR219B0AD
monitorname: DELL  E771p
monitorrange: 30-70, 50-160
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paulh177


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 875
Location: ST862228

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2007, 17:48    Post_subject:  

OK I experimented a little with ddcprobe. if I run it "ddcprobe" I get the output I posted. If I run "ddcprobe -" (or with -h -v - or whatever) it gives the following:
Code:
 vbe: VESA 3.0 detected.
oem: Brookdale-G Graphics Chip Accelerated VGA BIOS
vendor: Intel Corporation
product: Brookdale-G Graphics Controller Hardware Version 0.0
memory: 8000kb
mode: 1280x1024x256
mode: 640x480x16m
mode: 800x600x16m
mode: 1024x768x32k
mode: 1024x768x64k
mode: 1024x768x16m
mode: 1280x1024x64k
mode: 1280x1024x16m
mode: 132x25 (text)
mode: 132x43 (text)
mode: 132x50 (text)
mode: 132x60 (text)
mode: 640x480x256
mode: 800x600x256
mode: 1024x768x256
mode: 640x480x64k
mode: 800x600x64k
edid:
edid: 1 3
id: 7002
eisa: DEL7002
serial: 42304144
manufacture: 2 2002
input: sync on green, analog signal.
screensize: 30 23
gamma: 2.870000
dpms: RGB, active off, suspend, standby
timing: 640x480@60 Hz (VGA)
timing: 640x480@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@60 Hz (VESA)
timing: 800x600@75 Hz (VESA)
timing: 1024x768@75 Hz (VESA)
ctiming: 1024x768@85
ctiming: 800x600@85
ctiming: 640x480@85
ctiming: 1280x1024@60
dtiming: 1024x768@93
monitorserial: 93CUR219B0AD
monitorname: DELL  E771p
monitorrange: 30-70, 50-160
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 08:13    Post_subject: Congratulations  

Thanks for releasing this project Leachim, it will bring the standard of "polish" to puppy that other distro's have. Perhaps you would post "easy" instructions on how to gather the technical feedback that you need from system? That way a lot more people will be able to help.

The segment which i get the impression puppy would be aimed at would be computers of around a 200mhz to where the other main distros start to become useful (800mhz and up). Im not sure about the default resolution for the wizard to boot into. There are still a great many computers with graphics cards that are unable to display more than 16k colour in 1024x768. They are incapable of displaying higher, and often the monitors from this period would not cope in any case. 640x480 (the current default for the xvesa system on the current xorgwizard) I think is a bad choice because, to a "linux newbies" eyes (who is used to setting up windows), 640x480 automatically gives the bad first impression that the display drivers are not present and they need to go hunting around registering on websites to find them!!! an 800x600 screen would at least re-assure new linux users that their graphics were working better than in windows failsafe mode (640x480x16).

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SirDuncan


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 14:55    Post_subject:  

I think 800x600 is a good idea. I don't know of any monitors still in use that can't support it (not saying that there aren't any, of course). Besides, no matter what drivers you are using, nothing looks good on 640x480.
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Leachim

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 20:17    Post_subject:  

The default screen resolution if the monitor does not report its capabilities is 800x600.

The wizard currently uses silly refresh rates under certain circumstances. I hope I can fix this tomorrow.

It would be nice if somebody would take care about integrating the current versions of nVidia's, ATI's and Intel's propriatary drivers. To save space in the basic distribution they might be added as a separate sfs-file.

My aims are the wizard running elder and newer hardware equally well. (I use my Puppy-derived Linux on everything from Pentium II, first generation Athlons up to state-of-the-art multi-core processors.)
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 21:36    Post_subject:  

an enhanced zdrv would be the best option it could be downloaded buy lobster's wizard or even petget(there would have to be a script that copies it to the right place) or psi

all the more reason for a generic script that installs sfs modules to the right place depandant on instalation type

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4798
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 22:29    Post_subject: 1280  

The script told me nothing in console, and when I ran xwin, I got 1280 resolution (must be the default of my monitor). If presented with choice, like in xorgwizard, I usually choose the lower resolution.
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 23:08    Post_subject:  

Is it possible that this could support directfb? would be interesting if not prectical since gtk in puppy is compiled not compiled for it......
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Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater.
X86: Sager NP6110 3630QM 16GB ram, Tyan Thunder 2 2x 300Mhz
Sun: SS2 , LX , SS5 , SS10 , SS20 ,Ultra 1, Ultra 10 , T2000
Mac: Platinum Plus, SE/30
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 19:09    Post_subject: zdrv  

An enhanced zdrv might not be a bad idea full stop, as its the one that dictates if puppy works at all! I like the idea of automatic accelleration (and whatever the fb is) but would prefer this to be an extra feature to be added later once the base is complete. Good to bear in mind for the future. I would doubt that *most* computers that puppy would need to be used on could cope with accelleration.

I found these statistics

1024x768 is by far the most common screen size, but the problem with laptops is they sometimes look wierd if you dont use the default resolution. Difficult one this.

Edited_time_total
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Leachim

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 19:14    Post_subject:  

This time I really updated the X-Wizard in the download-link in the first post of this thread! (I'm still fighting with the upload-feature of this forum!)

The improved wizard should now choose reasonable refresh rates on nearly all displays - trying to guess whether a display is a CRT or a TFT. It prefers refresh rates about 85 Hz for CRTs and about 60 Hz for TFTs.

I also added a testsuite-feature that allows for "bulk-testing". So I can check each new version of the wizard against my whole "database" of ddcprobe-output-files.
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Leachim

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 19:24    Post_subject: Re: zdrv  

ecomoney wrote:
1024x768 is by far the most common screen size, but the problem with laptops is they sometimes look wierd if you dont use the default resolution. Difficult one this.

The problem with most notebooks is that they are not telling their screen size!

My proposal for handling this and similar problems:

The X-Wizard can categorize xorg.conf-files into 3 states

* autogenerated with complete information

* autogenerated with incomplete information

* user configured

When X starts up a X-startup-script will check the state of the xorg.conf-file. If it is "autogenerated incomplete" it will launch a configuration dialog presenting the user a selection of possible resolutions (and refresh rates). If the user closes the box with the Okay-button the selected values are entered into the xorg.conf-file and the file's state is switched to "user configured".
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 20:40    Post_subject:  

@ecomoney the directfb project aims to replace X if i am not misstaken and is currently more lightweight...but less mature...seems to be an active project though

the frame buffer is a memory buffer that holds frames the frames are then rendered to the screen...

a graphics card is a fancy frame buffer....

Yes ecomoney I did mean that the enhanced zdvr would be downloaded not default. However, contrary to what you would think many older computers would run better with video acceleration because it takes the load off the processor especially for webbrowseing and video.

so perhaps accelerated drivers should be included for very old cards (riva tnt matrox neomagic or an cards that have small drivers) so that it makes old PC's usable by default....

obviously nvidia cards have huge dirvers and they could be included without affecting proformance (would improve performance actaully) but also driving up the size of the ISO....

since you are aiming to get this running well by default I would lean toward building 2 versions one with the standared "fulldrivers" set and another with all the drivers we can find....."megadrivers" or what ever you wanna call it

the "megadrivers" may boot a little slower on say an nvidia machine but that would be due to the drivers loading it would/should run faster after booting....

on top of all that it would allow more wide spread testing of the #d drivers available for puppy

sorry for the long winded reply......im like that Wink

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Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater.
X86: Sager NP6110 3630QM 16GB ram, Tyan Thunder 2 2x 300Mhz
Sun: SS2 , LX , SS5 , SS10 , SS20 ,Ultra 1, Ultra 10 , T2000
Mac: Platinum Plus, SE/30
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 02:27    Post_subject: cb88  

Thanks cb88 for filling in one of the many the gaps in my knowledge. Auto detection of 3d graphics cards would be great, but after my recent experiences with it (and a project called "envy") I would imagine it would be a separate project and a half just to get this going (Leachim please correct me if Im wrong). I can imagine it could be a feature added to this at a later date, but I am worried about the timescales. It is better to get something that "just works" in the majority of cases and is useable for now, and worry about the special cases later. A standard detection routine would be great, and a "mega-sfs" version as a second project, adding on to the standard one.
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Leachim

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 06:00    Post_subject:  

The wizard itself checks what hard- and software (drivers) are available.

Currently the wizard mainly checks the monitor's capabilities if possible and tries to use the proprietary nVidia- or ATI-drivers if possible.

To further improve the wizard I need more feeback! (It now works fine on all PCs I have access to.)
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