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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy's gparted NTFS tools version not for Vista
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WayneS

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2008, 22:42    Post subject:  Puppy's gparted NTFS tools version not for Vista  

After a bit of digging I discovered that the version of the NTFS tools that puppy is using is not the ones recommended to be used with Vista.
The version puppy is using is v1.13.1 while the Vista frendly version is v2.0. I found this out by typing ntfsfix -V on the command line. Any idea how to update the version puppy is using ?
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:24    Post subject:  

Welcome!

It seems you're right. You didn't expect MS not to put a few stumbling stones in our path did you?

About the best I know to do is send you here:

http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php for more specifics.

Bruce
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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:29    Post subject:  

I sat at a vista machine the other day for the first time and one thing they did add was the ability to resize ntfs partitions.

Also, BK has ntfstools v2.0.0 in Dingo already. Very Happy
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:49    Post subject:  

John Doe wrote:
I sat at a vista machine the other day for the first time and one thing they did add was the ability to resize ntfs partitions.

Also, BK has ntfstools v2.0.0 in Dingo already. :D


John Doe,

I think I read you right. So you can make your NTFS smaller from within Vista, leaving free space? If true do you think this feature is in all four basic versions of Vista, granted you may not know that answer. But it's not too painful for me to ask :)

Bruce
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3250
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 03:06    Post subject:  

" You didn't expect MS not to put a few stumbling stones in our path did you?"

Another honest mistake surely...like their update for Office 2003.
Just because a few thousand people couldn't read read their old docs.

Chris
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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 03:10    Post subject:  

Bruce B wrote:
I think I read you right. So you can make your NTFS smaller from within Vista, leaving free space?


I'm not 100% sure, but it had the option to resize in the drive manager. I didn't actually go through with it yet.

Just did a quick search. It was "shrink volume" that caught my eye.

http://vistarewired.com/2007/02/16/how-to-resize-a-partition-in-windows-vista/

Bruce B wrote:
If true do you think this feature is in all four basic versions of Vista...


He had "home" so I would guess it's in the better ones.

Bruce B wrote:
...granted you may not know that answer. But it's not too painful for me to ask Smile


feel free to reply any time. Smile
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WayneS

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2008, 01:56    Post subject:  

Thanks for all the feedback.
I was shinking and then moving an NTFS partition on a 30 gig USB drive that I use with both Vista and Puppy. I used gparted in puppy to do it and afterwards Vista refused to boot up if the USB drive was plugged in. Had to shut it down hard and was unable to get to the files using Vista. By down loading the PartEdMagic Live CD (as posted on this forum) I was able to recover the partition using the newer version of ntfsfix thats on it .
Since then I have managed to fix gparted in puppy too by doing the following.
Down load the C compiler for puppy.
Down load the latest GNU NTFS tools source from GNU ( version 2.0.0 )
Compile it on puppy ( following the instructions in the README )
remove the older versions of the NTFS command line tools from /usr/bin
Done.
gparted finds the new NTFS library so you don't need to do anything to it.
I have tested gparted by shinking , moving , creating etc. and then booting back to Vista.
I had to run the command line tool ntfsfix once for some reason so now I always run it prior to switching to Vista and Vista seems happy now.
I am trying to get rid of Vista but I still need it for a while yet.
Hard to believe a bad partition on a USB drive could cause Vista to hang forever.
I'm running puppy 3.01 full install on a Toshiba Satellite laptop.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2008, 20:38    Post subject:  

WanyeS,

I think the information contained in this topic was valuable and important enough to make a howto. Hope you like it. If not I'll fix it.

Source:
www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=25286

Bruce
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WayneS

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2008, 21:41    Post subject:  

The How To Looks Fine.
If it saves some other puppy newbie some grief I'm happy.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2008, 00:00    Post subject:  

WayneS,

Thanks.

Months ago I periodically visited gparted's website and checked bug reports. I suspected that being a fairly new project there would be some bugs. And there were bugs of various types, some critical. I noticed some unaccounted Vista bug reports. Vista being new at that time, I'm not sure anyone knew what the problem was.

Looks like some brilliant coders figured it out. I feel better about seeing recommendations to use gparted as the universal partitioner. Although I still do things with other utilities.

One thing I've been curious about when it comes to shrinking an NTFS partition is how to the files outside the shrink area get moved? They must.

My earlier shrinking process on FAT systems was to run Norton Speed Disk and put all the data on the beginning of the partition. This way the shrinking procedure doesn't have any data to move.

One time I tried a similar procedure with an NTFS and MS' defrag utility wouldn't move so called unmovable data.

This unmovable data was definitely outside the intended shrink size I was looking for. I thought maybe gparted has a way of dealing with that. Maybe it did, maybe it does. One thing I can say for sure is XP never ran again.

I can't say I really cared. I certainly didn't care enough to reinstall it. The only thing I thought it was good for was running quality 3rd party software. Most of which I didn't actually need - except for Photoshop, which I now run in Puppy.

So it all ended well.

Bruce
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WayneS

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan 2008, 00:06    Post subject: Update on ntfs tools and ntfs-3g  

to build the ntfs tools and produce an updated ntfsmount command
you need to add the following option to ./configure
./configure --enable-fuse-module
make
make install

Now track down all the old ntfs programs and rename or move or remove them out of the $PATH
check /bin /usr/bin /sbin /usr/sbin and /usr/local/bin
After the dust settled here is what I ended up with.

ls -l /usr/bin/*ntfs*
ls -l /bin/*ntfs*
ls -l /usr/sbin/*ntfs*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 101139 2008-01-12 13:34 /bin/ntfs-3g
ls -l /usr/local/bin/*ntfs*
60216 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfscat
75754 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfscluster
78381 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfscmp
64717 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfsfix
107034 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfsinfo
67441 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfsls
108570 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/bin/ntfsmount
ls -l /usr/local/sbin/*ntfs*
172558 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/mkntfs
107317 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfsclone
65736 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfscp
57368 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfslabel
117987 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfsresize
100380 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfsundelete
ls -l /sbin/*ntfs*
22 2008-01-13 18:53 /sbin/mkfs.ntfs -> /usr/local/sbin/mkntfs
24 2008-01-13 18:53 /sbin/mount.fuse.ntfs -> /usr/local/bin/ntfsmount
13 2008-01-12 13:34 /sbin/mount.ntfs-3g -> //bin/ntfs-3g
24 2008-01-13 18:53 /sbin/mount.ntfs-fuse -> /usr/local/bin/ntfsmount

note: currently /usr/local/sbin is not in the $PATH

To Build the Latest version of ntfs-3g was a lot of work and may not be worth the effort since ntfsmount
seems to do the same job.
I use
ntfsmount /dev/sda2 /mnt/sda2

To make ntfs-3g I had to.
Down load puppy 3.01 Kernel Source
Down load latest Fuse Source
Down load latest ntfs-3g Source
Build Fuse
Build ntfs-3g
remove old fuse module from kernel (rmmod fuse, had to umount fusectl first )
rename /bin/mount to mount-PUP
cp /bin/mount-FULL to /bin/mount
These last two steps are required to make the new ntfs-3g work for some reason.
(Found the clue to this in a post on the pup developers log)
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan 2008, 00:34    Post subject:  

WanyeS,

I'm about to update the HOWTO, but I'm confused about two things:

1. Shouldn't you remove the old files before compiling the package? The reason being to prevent accidentally removing a new one after the make install?

2. I was surprised to read that /usr/local/sbin is not in the path, but then noting that it does even exist on my Puppy it makes sense. Question: does the directory need to exist for this install. If so then I guess the HOWTO will include instructions how to add it to the path statement.
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WayneS

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan 2008, 21:04    Post subject:  

BruceB
yes I guess it would be wise to track them down prior to doing the make install. I think the old ones where in /bin and /sbin . Mine are gone now so I can't say for sure.
In my case I was surprised to find that they ended up in different directories.
I hand expected them to over write the old versions. So I ended up cleaning out all the older versions based on their date. I also wasn't sure how many of them where going to get installed. So I would recommend checking all of the dates to make sure you get them all.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11049
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan 2008, 21:44    Post subject:  

Thanks for your reply, I see the problem you'd have on your end. Searching my non-updated system under /usr using anything that has ntfs in it I come up with the following. Can you indicate which of these 'old' files should be removed? Or if easier which should be saved? TIA

/usr/bin/ntfs-3g
/usr/bin/ntfscat
/usr/bin/ntfscluster
/usr/bin/ntfscmp
/usr/bin/ntfsfix
/usr/bin/ntfsinfo
/usr/bin/ntfsls
/usr/bin/ntfsmount
/usr/lib/libntfs-3g.so.1
/usr/lib/libntfs.so.9
/usr/lib/libntfs-3g.so.1.0.0
/usr/lib/libntfs.so.9.0.0
/usr/sbin/mkntfs
/usr/sbin/ntfsclone
/usr/sbin/ntfscp
/usr/sbin/ntfslabel
/usr/sbin/ntfsresize
/usr/sbin/ntfsundelete
/usr/share/doc/ntfs-3g.htm
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan 2008, 21:54    Post subject:  

can't you use those from dingo?
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/pet_packages-4/ntfs-3g-1.1004.pet
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/pet_packages-4/ntfsprogs-2.0.0.pet
Mark
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