Puppy's gparted NTFS tools version not for Vista

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WayneS
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Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

Puppy's gparted NTFS tools version not for Vista

#1 Post by WayneS »

After a bit of digging I discovered that the version of the NTFS tools that puppy is using is not the ones recommended to be used with Vista.
The version puppy is using is v1.13.1 while the Vista frendly version is v2.0. I found this out by typing ntfsfix -V on the command line. Any idea how to update the version puppy is using ?

Bruce B

#2 Post by Bruce B »

Welcome!

It seems you're right. You didn't expect MS not to put a few stumbling stones in our path did you?

About the best I know to do is send you here:

http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php for more specifics.

Bruce

John Doe
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Location: Michigan, US

#3 Post by John Doe »

I sat at a vista machine the other day for the first time and one thing they did add was the ability to resize ntfs partitions.

Also, BK has ntfstools v2.0.0 in Dingo already. :D

Bruce B

#4 Post by Bruce B »

John Doe wrote:I sat at a vista machine the other day for the first time and one thing they did add was the ability to resize ntfs partitions.

Also, BK has ntfstools v2.0.0 in Dingo already. :D
John Doe,

I think I read you right. So you can make your NTFS smaller from within Vista, leaving free space? If true do you think this feature is in all four basic versions of Vista, granted you may not know that answer. But it's not too painful for me to ask :)

Bruce

cthisbear
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Location: Sydney Australia

#5 Post by cthisbear »

" You didn't expect MS not to put a few stumbling stones in our path did you?"

Another honest mistake surely...like their update for Office 2003.
Just because a few thousand people couldn't read read their old docs.

Chris

John Doe
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Joined: Mon 01 Aug 2005, 04:46
Location: Michigan, US

#6 Post by John Doe »

Bruce B wrote:I think I read you right. So you can make your NTFS smaller from within Vista, leaving free space?
I'm not 100% sure, but it had the option to resize in the drive manager. I didn't actually go through with it yet.

Just did a quick search. It was "shrink volume" that caught my eye.

http://vistarewired.com/2007/02/16/how- ... ows-vista/
Bruce B wrote:If true do you think this feature is in all four basic versions of Vista...
He had "home" so I would guess it's in the better ones.
Bruce B wrote:...granted you may not know that answer. But it's not too painful for me to ask :)
feel free to reply any time. :)

WayneS
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

#7 Post by WayneS »

Thanks for all the feedback.
I was shinking and then moving an NTFS partition on a 30 gig USB drive that I use with both Vista and Puppy. I used gparted in puppy to do it and afterwards Vista refused to boot up if the USB drive was plugged in. Had to shut it down hard and was unable to get to the files using Vista. By down loading the PartEdMagic Live CD (as posted on this forum) I was able to recover the partition using the newer version of ntfsfix thats on it .
Since then I have managed to fix gparted in puppy too by doing the following.
Down load the C compiler for puppy.
Down load the latest GNU NTFS tools source from GNU ( version 2.0.0 )
Compile it on puppy ( following the instructions in the README )
remove the older versions of the NTFS command line tools from /usr/bin
Done.
gparted finds the new NTFS library so you don't need to do anything to it.
I have tested gparted by shinking , moving , creating etc. and then booting back to Vista.
I had to run the command line tool ntfsfix once for some reason so now I always run it prior to switching to Vista and Vista seems happy now.
I am trying to get rid of Vista but I still need it for a while yet.
Hard to believe a bad partition on a USB drive could cause Vista to hang forever.
I'm running puppy 3.01 full install on a Toshiba Satellite laptop.

Bruce B

#8 Post by Bruce B »

WanyeS,

I think the information contained in this topic was valuable and important enough to make a howto. Hope you like it. If not I'll fix it.

Source:
www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=25286

Bruce

WayneS
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

#9 Post by WayneS »

The How To Looks Fine.
If it saves some other puppy newbie some grief I'm happy.

Bruce B

#10 Post by Bruce B »

WayneS,

Thanks.

Months ago I periodically visited gparted's website and checked bug reports. I suspected that being a fairly new project there would be some bugs. And there were bugs of various types, some critical. I noticed some unaccounted Vista bug reports. Vista being new at that time, I'm not sure anyone knew what the problem was.

Looks like some brilliant coders figured it out. I feel better about seeing recommendations to use gparted as the universal partitioner. Although I still do things with other utilities.

One thing I've been curious about when it comes to shrinking an NTFS partition is how to the files outside the shrink area get moved? They must.

My earlier shrinking process on FAT systems was to run Norton Speed Disk and put all the data on the beginning of the partition. This way the shrinking procedure doesn't have any data to move.

One time I tried a similar procedure with an NTFS and MS' defrag utility wouldn't move so called unmovable data.

This unmovable data was definitely outside the intended shrink size I was looking for. I thought maybe gparted has a way of dealing with that. Maybe it did, maybe it does. One thing I can say for sure is XP never ran again.

I can't say I really cared. I certainly didn't care enough to reinstall it. The only thing I thought it was good for was running quality 3rd party software. Most of which I didn't actually need - except for Photoshop, which I now run in Puppy.

So it all ended well.

Bruce

WayneS
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

Update on ntfs tools and ntfs-3g

#11 Post by WayneS »

to build the ntfs tools and produce an updated ntfsmount command
you need to add the following option to ./configure
./configure --enable-fuse-module
make
make install

Now track down all the old ntfs programs and rename or move or remove them out of the $PATH
check /bin /usr/bin /sbin /usr/sbin and /usr/local/bin
After the dust settled here is what I ended up with.

ls -l /usr/bin/*ntfs*
ls -l /bin/*ntfs*
ls -l /usr/sbin/*ntfs*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 101139 2008-01-12 13:34 /bin/ntfs-3g
ls -l /usr/local/bin/*ntfs*
60216 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfscat
75754 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfscluster
78381 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfscmp
64717 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfsfix
107034 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfsinfo
67441 2008-01-13 21:42 /usr/local/bin/ntfsls
108570 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/bin/ntfsmount
ls -l /usr/local/sbin/*ntfs*
172558 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/mkntfs
107317 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfsclone
65736 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfscp
57368 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfslabel
117987 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfsresize
100380 2008-01-13 18:53 /usr/local/sbin/ntfsundelete
ls -l /sbin/*ntfs*
22 2008-01-13 18:53 /sbin/mkfs.ntfs -> /usr/local/sbin/mkntfs
24 2008-01-13 18:53 /sbin/mount.fuse.ntfs -> /usr/local/bin/ntfsmount
13 2008-01-12 13:34 /sbin/mount.ntfs-3g -> //bin/ntfs-3g
24 2008-01-13 18:53 /sbin/mount.ntfs-fuse -> /usr/local/bin/ntfsmount

note: currently /usr/local/sbin is not in the $PATH

To Build the Latest version of ntfs-3g was a lot of work and may not be worth the effort since ntfsmount
seems to do the same job.
I use
ntfsmount /dev/sda2 /mnt/sda2

To make ntfs-3g I had to.
Down load puppy 3.01 Kernel Source
Down load latest Fuse Source
Down load latest ntfs-3g Source
Build Fuse
Build ntfs-3g
remove old fuse module from kernel (rmmod fuse, had to umount fusectl first )
rename /bin/mount to mount-PUP
cp /bin/mount-FULL to /bin/mount
These last two steps are required to make the new ntfs-3g work for some reason.
(Found the clue to this in a post on the pup developers log)

Bruce B

#12 Post by Bruce B »

WanyeS,

I'm about to update the HOWTO, but I'm confused about two things:

1. Shouldn't you remove the old files before compiling the package? The reason being to prevent accidentally removing a new one after the make install?

2. I was surprised to read that /usr/local/sbin is not in the path, but then noting that it does even exist on my Puppy it makes sense. Question: does the directory need to exist for this install. If so then I guess the HOWTO will include instructions how to add it to the path statement.

WayneS
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

#13 Post by WayneS »

BruceB
yes I guess it would be wise to track them down prior to doing the make install. I think the old ones where in /bin and /sbin . Mine are gone now so I can't say for sure.
In my case I was surprised to find that they ended up in different directories.
I hand expected them to over write the old versions. So I ended up cleaning out all the older versions based on their date. I also wasn't sure how many of them where going to get installed. So I would recommend checking all of the dates to make sure you get them all.

Bruce B

#14 Post by Bruce B »

Thanks for your reply, I see the problem you'd have on your end. Searching my non-updated system under /usr using anything that has ntfs in it I come up with the following. Can you indicate which of these 'old' files should be removed? Or if easier which should be saved? TIA

/usr/bin/ntfs-3g
/usr/bin/ntfscat
/usr/bin/ntfscluster
/usr/bin/ntfscmp
/usr/bin/ntfsfix
/usr/bin/ntfsinfo
/usr/bin/ntfsls
/usr/bin/ntfsmount
/usr/lib/libntfs-3g.so.1
/usr/lib/libntfs.so.9
/usr/lib/libntfs-3g.so.1.0.0
/usr/lib/libntfs.so.9.0.0
/usr/sbin/mkntfs
/usr/sbin/ntfsclone
/usr/sbin/ntfscp
/usr/sbin/ntfslabel
/usr/sbin/ntfsresize
/usr/sbin/ntfsundelete
/usr/share/doc/ntfs-3g.htm

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MU
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#15 Post by MU »


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Flash
Official Dog Handler
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#16 Post by Flash »

I've recently discovered that the version of NTFS for Vista is apparently incompatible with the version for Windows 2000. If you're formatting a hard disk, or changing partitions around or whatever, it's important to know which OS you'll be using, and whether the format is the correct one for that OS. If Puppy's partitioning tool is updated for Vista's version of NTFS, the partitioning tool needs to make clear which versions of Windows it is for.

Bruce B

#17 Post by Bruce B »

Mark,

Here's were I'm coming from. I don't have Windows let alone an NTFS. But I did already suspect there were some bugs with resizing Vista. For reasons that elude me people don't seem to want to ruin their Vista installations. If they did I'd stay up all night publishing how to do its.

WayneS' posts showed how to update current versions and previous versions of Puppy so that Vista partitions can be safely resized. This is the first I'd read about this on the forum, and I thought it was deserving of a HOWTO that was destined to become obsolete with newer Puppy releases.

This put me in the position of maintaining the HOWTO - as it is me who can edit it and keep it up to date and accurate.

With this understanding I want to turn your question back on you.

From: can't you use those from dingo? (the pet packages in reference)
To: can we use dingo? (the pet packages in reference)

Please provide just enough feed back for me to update the HOWTO.

Thanks for ALL YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS to Puppy et al.

Bruce

My current plan of action is:

(1) to take personal inventory to determine how I who don't even care what happens to anyone's Windows got myself involved.

(2) To figure out how Flash's post applies

Probably I'll just include all helpful and relevant information in the updated HOWTO.

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Flash
Official Dog Handler
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Location: Arizona USA

#18 Post by Flash »

Sorry, Bruce. All I know is that when I told Partition Magic to format a partition with the NTFS for Vista, then tried to install Windows 2000, the installer balked until it had reformatted the whole drive. It's been so long since I installed Windows that I may have botched it some other way without realizing it. :lol:

WayneS
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

#19 Post by WayneS »

Well
It looks like I've been building a Dingo . If these pets do the same job it would sure be great.
Maybe they will put the commands in the right directories too. Right now my NTFS stuff is working but I will give them a try when I have some time and post the results.

Thanks for the list BruceB
Now I can see that the old commands I removed after building the NTFS Tools where
/usr/bin/ntfscat
/usr/bin/ntfscluster
/usr/bin/ntfscmp
/usr/bin/ntfsfix
/usr/bin/ntfsinfo
/usr/bin/ntfsls
/usr/bin/ntfsmount
/usr/sbin/mkntfs
/usr/sbin/ntfsclone
/usr/sbin/ntfscp
/usr/sbin/ntfslabel
/usr/sbin/ntfsresize
/usr/sbin/ntfsundelete

The lib stuff that gparted uses got over written cleanly.

WayneS
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue 08 Jan 2008, 02:23
Location: Alberta Canada

#20 Post by WayneS »

To avoid changing the $PATH env varianle I had to
cp /usr/local/sbin/* /usr/local/bin
gparted needed some of the commands in /usr/local/sbin

FYI
I'm currently running ThunderBird on Puppy and using the email files stored on the NTFS Vista Partition. I have ThunderBird installed on Vista also. I can now boot either Vista or Puppy to get my email. The mail directory is around 500 meg. This is a temporary step in switching from Outlook on Vista to Thunderbird on puppy. Vista seems unaware of the puppy chewing at its disk.

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