grafpup puplet for graphic artists and other crazy people

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Nathan F
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#21 Post by Nathan F »

Grafpup defaults to pup101 instead of pup001, so that it can be run alongside the regular garden variety Puppy. When the splash screen pops up you can choose which hd to use and also choose the name of the pupfile to use by typing 3 and then hit enter. I don't think it would do much harm to run both using the same pupfile. There are some differences, such as the pinboard. I bypassed Barry's pinboard upgrade by having it bring up a different one. There is also the fact that Grafpup uses a custom menu which I haven't written for jwm or fvwm95. These are really niggly little things, however.

I'm tentatively planning to do an update on the concept when Puppy1.0.6 is released. Look for some big improvements and further customizing. I'll post a tentative plan when I have the time. If anyone here has suggestions I'll be glad to hear them.

For now here's the major changes I have planned.

Either Cinepaint or Gimp, but not both. They're too similar. Whichever one I put in will be the most current release.

I'll probably stick with Opera, but upgrade to the new free version without ads. Hopefully this will maintain the size benefits.

Inkscape will be there, but I will probably remove Sodipodi as there will no longer be a need for it.

Printing will work one way or another.

I'll look into gtkam or similar, so you will be able to plug in your digital camera. I can't make any promises here.

PeterSieg
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next grafpup...

#22 Post by PeterSieg »

Hi Nathan F.

I think grafpup is great.
My feelings for a next release:
* Stick with gimp and cinepaint.
* Stick with opera, but use free 8.5 version.
* Stick with Ted but make printing (via ghostscript?) working.
* Included inkscape and throw sodipody out.
* I am not sure whether xine or mplayer would be better..?

Thanks, Peter

BTW: To get a multimedia puplet, I would suggest to have
* audacity
* streamtuner
* streamripper
* ripperX
as packages/pups available.

PS
Have fun :)

PeterSieg
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hdd install+grubconfig is broken/missing

#23 Post by PeterSieg »

Hi. I just found out that hdd install+grubconfig is broken/missing...
hdd install option 2 has problem of first 1.0.5 final version (/usr).
grubconfig seems to be missing...

PS
Have fun :)

jcagle
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#24 Post by jcagle »

I've not even used Cinepaint yet. I'll try it out this evening after I get grafpup burned to CD.

jcagle
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#25 Post by jcagle »

I really like grafpup.

The only problem I had was the fact that GKDial was not included. wvdial doesn't seem to work right with my computer. It just keeps disconnecting and re-dialing for some reason. GKDial does the trick though.

Anyway I rebooted in my previous PuppyLinux (which was 1.0.4 anyway, I downloaded it right before 1.0.5 came out). It messed up some of the settings for that, as I was using pup001, but it's ok, I think I'll stick with grafpup right now.

I will be remastering grafpup tonight to include gkdial.

mortlocl
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where is a tutorial for Cinepaint

#26 Post by mortlocl »

Does anyone know where to find a good tutoria for CinePaint and animations.

I thought I found one on their web site but it seems to be really for Gimp....there's no info on using it with animations.

I think it needs each frame saved as a image file but after that...?
There doesn't seem any way to load them except as individual images?
mortlocl

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Nathan F
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#27 Post by Nathan F »

Peter-
I'll add the hdd install bug to the list of things to check into for the next release. Thanks for the input on included programs.

jcagle-
I'll probably put gkdial back into the next version. I'm trying to cut some things down to just one application, and I guess I cut in some of the wrong areas. My apologies as this was my first stab at this sort of project.

mortlocl-
Documentation on Cinepaint is pretty sparse right now. Noone's bothering to write it as the program is almost finished being totally rewritten. Cinepaint Glasgow is due for release late December and will be a complete FLTK interface. Look for better documentation after that release (I hope!). I intend to compile it for Puppy when it comes available.

You are correct that you must save individual frames as single images in order to work on them. Hollywood studios currently still shoot each and every movie on film. If any kind of digital post production work is required, each frame must be scanned into an image file, creating a numbered sequence of images for each scene. They can then be loaded as a batch into Cinepaint for dustbusting, color correction, or other tasks. This is extremely painstaking and slow work!

Cinepaint opens with several windows, much like the old Gimp-1.x series. In order to access the flipbook feature you must first open an image because that menu entry only exists on the main image window. On that window, go to File > Flipbook > create in order to open a series of images. You can then work on each in sequence and play them back. I don't know right now how you would go about saving them into any kind of movie format like mpeg and I suspect that it would require an outside program.

I use Cinepaint for color correcting large-format film scans, as it can handle high bit depths and has built-in color management. Both of these features are still missing in Gimp. In other words, I'm not an expert in how to use the program for it's intended purpose of motion picture production. My reasons for using Cinepaint are that Gimp just plain falls shor in these and severeal other key areas if you want to do truly professional work.

Everyone-
I'm already working on some new unleashed packages for inclusion in the next grafpup. I have the latest (ad-free) Opera packaged. I also have made a new midnight commander package and it will be in. I'm working on a fresh compile of Inkscape. I've also been working on gtkam and will need testers with digicams sometime in the next few weeks to see if it will work (I still take all of my photographs using huge pieces of film and don't own a digital camera. Go figure.)

I'm also tweaking Icewm in order to resolve some niggly little issues like getting icons to display in the corners of the windows for most of the programs. The next version will have a more refined look and probably some nicer icons than what is currently in Puppy (It is grafpup after all).

I really want to get Blender working even if the package is too large to fit on the live cd. Unfortunately I've got too many other projects going, plus way too much work at the moment. If anyone else wants to tackle that project please let me know.

There is also another program called Cinelerra that is quite adept at Video production. It is quite large and would never be included in the live cd, but I will eventually try to get it running for those who might want to try it.

I've also got quite an extensive list of bugfixes to fix now. I'm going to try and fix printing this week and will figure out where the hd install script went asap.

There is a good chance that all of the things that I have planned could make grafpup into something quite a bit different than Barry's Puppy. I still love the current Puppy and plan to keep grafpup compatible with all of the unleashed and dotpup packages. However, I haven't ruled out the possibility of turning it into a distribution in it's own right. For one thing, it may eventually have to have it's own package repository because some of the packages made for grafpup might not work for Puppy. For instance, the version of Gimp included in Grafpup requires an upgrade of libfreetype in order to even run. Also, I've modified the filestructure somewhat for the next release in order to get mutt to work, as Puppy currently has no provision for a traditional mail spool. I like mutt as it's one of the only console email clients that works with pop and imap, and I wanted it to be available.

This is all speculation at this point. Anyway, don't expect another release any time soon. I may make a bugfix package for the current release, however.

I honestly didn't expect this level of interest in my little project, and I wish to thank you all again for using and testing grafpup. All of the feedback will certainly make for a better release the next time around.

Nathan

jcagle
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#28 Post by jcagle »

Ah, it's cool...I'm smart enough to get around it and get gkdial on there.

jcagle
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#29 Post by jcagle »

By the way, I'm really interested in helping out. I haven't done any programming (other than PHP) in quite a while, but I could probably help on the graphical side of things.

I plan on making some IceWM themes. I could also make some icons. I've got my own stock photography collection that I've built up in photography class at school that might make some nice wallpapers as well.

And I think IceWM is a great default window manager for grafpup.

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#30 Post by Nathan F »

I've made a gtkam unleashed package. I need testers. Any takers?

jcagle-
Help would be welcomed. Here's my gameplan for graphics.

new default wallpaper-Should install in /usr/share/images. I don't intend to include much in the way of extra images for space reasons, but I need something more catchy for the default. I threw the default look together in about a half hour. Dotpup or pupget wallpaper packages would benefit all Puppy users, not just grafpup. The best size and format is 1024x768 in jpeg format. You could make an unleashed package extra_wallpapers.tar.gz-it's something I've thought of doing myself.

icons-Icon path is /usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps and /usr/local/lib/X11/mini-icons. I just want one set of nicer icons for the programs included in grafpup, but I've always thought they could look a little nicer than what is in Puppy right now. What I don't really want is to have too many icons or multiple icons for the same app/category. Size is still important so the fewer the better. If you have some nice ones that you think would work go ahead and send them to me. Try to keep them named appropriately ie gimp.xpm or wizard.xpm for instance (name them after the appropriate app). The preffered format is .xpm. I cna give you a list of programs included if you like.

Icewm themes-are great but are also plentiful. I kind of like the default one here, but I'd consider something else if you have something in mind. I chose this one for it's similarity to the Bluecurve theme in Fedora. I also included G2's default blue theme as it's smaller and lighter. Some people prefer that. I only plan to include two in the live cd as they are so easy to add later by way of dotpup.

I also want to give grafpup it's own splash screen at bootup. A nice stock photo could be used here, but nothing too large.

The other project that needs started is documentation. I want to continue Barry's tradition of having more documentation than any other small distro-it really makes for a freindlier experience for new users. I want to continue to use what's already in Puppy, but there are several new programs here and more on the way. I thought I'd just add some more pages and link to them from the master index. The documentation is all in /usr/share/doc and is in html format. Where documentation would be excessively large (such as for Gimp) it would be fine to just provide a page with links to online documentation. If you do want to add any docs, I'd prefer them sans photos or graphics. Space is still an issue.

I keep saying that space is still an issue and for good reason. I want grafpup to stay lean and fast. Right now I think it runs some major imaging apps faster and more efficiently than almost anything else and I intend to keep it that way. That's what drove me to Puppy in the first place.

Other things I'd appreciate help on are testing and bug spotting. Run the programs and let me know what works and what doesn't. The version of Gimp in grafpup is a development release, for instance, and not every plugin seems to work. It makes little sense to me to include Gimp plugins in Grafpup that don't run anyway, so they will be removed from the next release if they aren't fixed. However, I don't have time to test everything. Let me know what works and what doesn't.

I think I know what I need to change to get printing working and will release a patch soon. I only have access to the printers at work, though, and will need others to verify that it's working.

Thanks again,
Nathan

mortlocl
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CinePaint info

#31 Post by mortlocl »

Thank you for that background information re. CinePaint, Nathan F.

After your comment I tried the flipbook again and this time got it to work. It seems that a new layer is required for each frame and autosave turned on..and then you can flip from one frame to the next. You were right...it would be slow work indeed.

I'm glad you propose to put GKDial in the next release.

I wonder if Blender will be more trouble than it's worth. a couple of years back I tried it on the knoppix media live cd and it didn't seem to run as well as in MSwindows....it seemed slower. I still think getting Blender to run in Puppy would be quite an achievement and would like to see it. But your time may be better sent somewhere else....maybe.


I'll take a look for Cinelerra.
Thanks for cinepaint package...it works fine.
mortlocl

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Nathan F
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grafpup hdd install

#32 Post by Nathan F »

Peter Sieg just pointed out to me that there was a problem with hdd install in grafpup. I've looked into it and decided that I must have been blind when I put this together as I forgot to include grub. So, if anyone wants to do a hard drive install of grafpup, you will have to use pupget to install grub first.

I've just done a usb install without any issues, but I don't have a spare hard drive that I can test on. If anyone has any other issues here please let me know.

Nathan

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#33 Post by Flash »

Nathan, I realize computer graphics can quickly fill up a hard drive, but still, many graphics projects could fit on a DVD. Why not put graphpup on a multisession DVD? It would be ideal for a class. Each student would have a DVD which would contain everything needed for a computer graphics project except the computer. :) The classroom computers would not need hard drives at all, only plenty of RAM to manipulate the large files common in computer graphics. All the intermediate work to do with the project is saved on the DVD for the student, or teacher, to review.

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Nathan F
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multi-seession grafpup dvd

#34 Post by Nathan F »

Flash-
That's probably a really good idea. It also fits in nicely with one of the other ideas I had for grafpup. I thought I'd make a live dvd edition that would basically be the same iso plus a seperate directory containing all of the remaining unleashed packages. That way a person would be able to pop the cd in and install any additional software that I couldn't get in the live cd, like the sane libs and xsane for instance, just by mounting the disk and using pupget. It wouldn't even require an internet connection. If burned multisession they could then use it without even needing a hard drive. I like the idea.

This is getting to be a major undertaking.

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#35 Post by jcagle »

I don't have a DVD drive but hope to have one with my new computer that I hope to get for Christmas.

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#36 Post by Flash »

FWIW, today I bought a brand new Emprex 16x double layer DVD burner for $40, and a stack of 100 TDK 16x DVD+RWs for the same price.

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#37 Post by Nathan F »

A new Grafpup iso is close to ready. I've gotten all of the core software in place and working, and worked out most of the bugs from the first release. I'm now busy using my 'alpha' grafpup to make new graphics for the completed project. Expect many improvements in usability and a more complete operating system.

Major Changes:
-Opera upgraded to 8.5, ad free.
-Inkscape 0.42 is now included by default, replacing Sodipodi. Inkscape, along with Gimp and Cinepaint, forms the core of Grafpup's graphic capabilities. The inclusion of Inkscape has increased the size of the iso considerably, but I felt that the project needed it to be taken seriously.
-Gimp is now version 2.2.8, the latest stable release. While I loved using the development branch, Gimp is too important for production work to use an unstable branch. Also, this version is more compatible with the currently available script-fu scripts. Look for extra goodies to be available as optional packages like extra patterns, scripts, and plugins. Also, Gimp-2.3.4 will be available as an optional package for those who want to try it. It will be compiled for a different prefix so the two versions can coexist peacably.
-New package Gtkam along with the Gimp plugin.
-Midnight commander included
-Cinepaint is still there, but slightly cutdown. I removed some of the less useful brushes cutting down the size of the package by about a third. This shouldn't cripple the program, and the brushes I removed will be installable as an extra package.
-Grub and gkdial are in the iso where they belong
-Printing should be working, although I need to test it better
-Better looks. I've gotten most of the programs to display icons in the window corners and on the taskbar. There is a brand new wallpaper created from scratch in Gimp and a new splash screen at bootup. Also, the desktop includes the Torsmo system monitor. I'm also adding nicer icons bit by bit. One other neat feature I added is a switch to turn a ROX panel on and off at the right side of the screen. This is a nice place to drag and drop often used apllications and frequently visited directories. The directory /root has a new subdirectory /root/images to store your work.
-There will be two versions, standard and deluxe. Deluxe will be the same as standard but will also include a directory on the cd with extra unleashed packages. You will be able to mount the cd and install many extra programs, all without an internet connection, using the pupget package manager. A partial list of extra programs ready or in the works:
-wine
-Complete SDL libs for gaming
-Games Bombercone, Supertux, and The Battle for Wesnoth
-Seamonkey Suite
-Gimp-2.3.4
-Mutt console email client
-I'm still working on Blender, but it's on the back burner.
-I'm also considering branching this whole project off from Puppy as a seperate distribution. This means that Grafpup would end up with it's own website, forum, and package repository. This would be phased in over a couple of releases, starting with an extra menu item to visit the Grafpup software repository and eventually changing pupget to have a different list of packages and target the grafpup site instead of ibiblio. I actually still need to talk to Barry about this as I want his approval before I take the project this far. Grafpup is still Puppy under the hood, but the library upgrades are quickly making it hard to insure that packages remain compatible. I do intend to remain active in the Puppy forum and community and will continue to try and help improve the operating system I love so much.

The time frame for this release is 2-3 weeks. My original Grafpup was thrown together in about two days. I'm trying to do this right this time. I may also change the version numbering to match the fact that Grafpup is becoming a different beast than Puppy. The size of Grafpup standard will be about 70-72mb, and should remain stable there. I certainly don't want it any larger. I recomend at least 128mb of ram and a swap partition to get the most out of the Graphics capabilities. Size of the deluxe iso TBA.

If you have any questions, suggestions, or want to get involved I'd be glad to hear from you.

Nathan
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Grafpup as it currently looks.
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Alienx
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#38 Post by Alienx »

good news, excellent work !
Nathan F wrote:If you have any questions, suggestions, or want to get involved I'd be glad to hear from you.
my only question is when it will be available because I'd like to download it as soon as possible :P
Sorry, broken english above :-)

PeterSieg
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USB keyboard support

#39 Post by PeterSieg »

Hi Nathan F.

When you include in /etc/rc.d/rc.local0
just before rc.local gets called this 2 lines:
modprobe usbkbd
modprobe keybdev

then people with only usb keyboards will be happy ;)
I still have to find a better/earlier place for that, because if rc.syslinux?
asks for PHOME...

Good luck (I personally find the new background to dark - just my taste)

PS
Have fun :)

Guest

#40 Post by Guest »

Peter-
Will check into adding those lines. Shouldn't adversely affect anything.

The new background won't be that dark. The monitor I finished it on was too light, so I went back and fixed it. Also there will be a second choice with the same logo against a lighter background.

Thanks for the feedback.
Nathan

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