Muppy 008.2 (Feb 01, 2008) outdated

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tlchost
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#21 Post by tlchost »

MU wrote:You can use pburn, which is the standard-cdburner in Muppy.
I had bug-reports concerning other burning-utilities like burniso2cd (problems with Xdialog), and so focus on pburn.

What do you think of pburn?
From which Puppy did you take a working version of burniso2cd?
Pburn looks nice, burns to a CD, but will not write to my DVD drive, with either DVD+RW or DVD-RW.

Not sure what version...if you had it in the 008 version then t was from there.

MU wrote: To add a program to the menu, create a .desktop file for it in /usr/share/applications.
Use pburn.desktop as template.
Mark
Thanks....I copied that file in from another distro...works fine.

The time display is hosed....while I set the system for -5, while the display shows the correct time...it says +5. Weird.

Thanks so much for this version....Having Open Office and Firefox that handles Java is very helpful...and the wine lets me run some of the windows stuff I need.

changturkey
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#22 Post by changturkey »

Does this have the newer ALSAs?

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MU
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#23 Post by MU »

It is the one from Puppy 3.01.
alsactl --version
alsactl version 1.0.14
Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

changturkey
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#24 Post by changturkey »

MU wrote:It is the one from Puppy 3.01.
alsactl --version
alsactl version 1.0.14
Mark
Is there any way to update it to 1.0.16?

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Barburo
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Muppy 008.2 feedback.

#25 Post by Barburo »

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the wget tip - that fixed the download problems. Some questions and observations about Muppy 008.2:
I am running an HP Pavilion tx1000 laptop with twin AMD Turion processors and 2Gb memory, 713Mb Swap partition. I have to tweak xorg.conf to get the screen to display, by adding an extra definition for screen1, but I need to do that for basic Puppy 3.01 anyway. nVidia installs quickly with no problems.

The first time I booted 008.2 from CD I allowed it to pick up my previous 008 save file. I needed Thunderbird and Firefox so I thought it would be easy, but I got strange results after the files were upgraded. It worked but CPU quickly went to 100%, and Rox opened very slowly (10-15 second delay) , so I reverted to a clean install with a new save file and those symptoms disappeared. With the .sfs file mounter I can get some files I need from previous versions. Too bad you lost the background file with the red maple leaf (it was called Poets something) - I liked it.

Each time I boot 008.2 the initial screen displays with the "MiniSys" logo, then more than 20 seconds passes before the task bar, conky, clock and icedock appear on the screen. Is this delay unusual? My system should be fast enough i'm thinking. After downloading and rebooting with the add-ons.sfs file I found that the delay goes away. Curious.

I tried pcmanfm - you're right about it quitting when you try to open folders containing large or many images. With Xfe on the desktop anyway I find this switch between file managers a bit redundant. I think I like Xfe better than pcmanfm but you probably have your reasons. Is it connected with gtk1 and gtk2?

I have not tried pwget but it should make downloading easier especially as you can specify where to download the file (I ran out of space a couple of times using wget in a terminal). Xwget "help" and "About" don't display on my machine. Netsurf can't display - but you can use Rox to navigate to the folder.

Minisys-Linux: I'm not sure what this is for or what it does.

I downloaded the add-ons.sfs file and booted with it.
Widgets: I looked at clock, calendar and weather. Got my city code from weather.com but it didn't update the applet ( I got N/A ...loading). Calendar shows holidays but you can't enter your own events. Clock is OK but not as good as analog clock. Have you seen what TazOC has done for analog clock in LighthousePup (based on 2.15CE)? It seems a bit more flexible if it can be ported to 3.01.

Mark, overall I like what you are doing with Muppy - it's full of extra functionality - I'm looking forward to testing each app as the need arises. I don't think widgets bring any increased functionality to the desktop, but I guess some people like the appearance (and Vista has them) so it's a function versus form kind of thing. Keep the versions coming and I'll do my best to test them out. CUPS didn't work very well last time so that's next for testing.
--Barburo.

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MU
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#26 Post by MU »

Muppy is a bit slow at startup because it runs "fixmenus".
The next version will use a patch for quicker startup:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26170

However this does not explain, why it takes 20 seconds, while with the addon.sfs it is quicker.
I'm a bit irritated by that.

Deskletts: shure, only eyecandy. But many people love it, but it will remain optional (in the addon, not in the base).

Background - hmm.. why is it gone :shock:
Must search why it was removed. I quite like it, too.


Upgrade:
I had made some test-updates here, and that worked ok so far.
But you never know, how instable things become, especially if you had installed own programs before.
I wish I had a solution for that.
A while ago I started writing an "import-wizard", so you could import some settings from an old pup_save.2fs.
So it would become very easy to start with a new one.
However there remains the risk, that automated steps like in a wizard oversee things.
People are chaotic, and do not use "/root/my-documents" to save everything.
This makes it difficult.
But I will keep an eye on this issue.

The clock:
no, had no look yet.
If I find some time, I will look at it.

Thanks for your detailed report of your impressions and experiences, they are very welcome :)
Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

asburylad
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Muppy - The Next Version

#27 Post by asburylad »

Hi Mu

I discovered your excellent Muppy derivative of Puppylinux some time ago. I especially the sharp, crisp looking icons and desktop look.
Other Puppy derivatives seem look fuzzy to me. I also like the apps you included, Firefox, OpenOffice, XMMS, etc.

I have yet to get any sound from the current version of Muppy, Puppylinux (3.01) or the previous version. I've spent many hours and several posts to this board trying to get the ALSA sound module to work and have essentially given up.

The only Puppylinux version where the sound works for me is the current version of PizzaPup based on Puppy (v2.?) and the current Alpha4 version of Puppylinux (Dingo).

My question is; since the official version of Dingo will probably be released in March-April, will you be updating Muppy based on that version
so I can finally hear Muppy ?

Thanks
Asburylad

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Barburo
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Alsa Sound

#28 Post by Barburo »

@asburylad
When puppy 2.14 came out I was having unresolvable sound problems.
What fixed things for me was to change the slot for the sound card. You could try moving your sound card to a different slot or swap it with another if you've no room. No idea why it worked but it just did.

aragon
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Problems with Muppy 008.2 Standard DE

#29 Post by aragon »

Hi MU,

i've downloaded the german standard edtion and am trying to use it on my business pc.

The following problems occur with using the live-cd:

1. Using of XORG failled completely. Whatever resolution i'm using with xorg-wizard the screen went black and nothing happens any more.

2. Using the XVESA i was able to get through to the desktop. There, i was unable to do anything because of the high system load. It seems that the loaded python is overloading the system. After killing python it worked a little better but the system load remained high and working is not possible.

My pc is a Dell Optiplex GX280, Pentium 4 2,8 Ghz, with 512 MB ram. I think it should cope with muppy even from a live-cd. Graphic card is onboard with an Intel 82915G chipset.

Do you have any suggestion how to handle this?

Thanks
aragon

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MU
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#30 Post by MU »

Aragon, please try the mini-version without addons.
It has no python.

When you have high system-load in the standad-version, click on the symbol left beside the clock on bottom.
This will open "gps" , a processviewer.

In gps, use "continuous refresh" , and sort by CPU-usage.
Then you will see, what is so slow.
You can kill that process from gps.

Please tell me then, what it was.

The python-deskletts produce high load at startup, but only for a short moment.
On my Pentium 700 it is acceptable.
So there must be something else wrong, as your computer is much faster than mine.

asburylad

No, no soon upgrade planned to Puppy 4.
Maybe single packages from it.
But it is so completely different from 3, that I fear that it could be instable with all the many addons I made for Muppy.
Also translating everything again is not very encouraging.
Most of Puppys scripts do not support localization, so it takes weeks to translate them again.
I find it more important, to develop own addons now.
I also will look if it mabye makes more sense, to upgrade Muppy with libraries from the upcoming Slackware 13.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

aragon
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#31 Post by aragon »

Hi MU,

well tried is with another burned cd but the same happens.

I started with xvesa and killed python and the icedock with apps so that i could work a little.

i started gps, here are the results (but... as i can't surf in muppy - no browser ever started - i wrote the following list by hand and forgot you wrote CPU-usage). So the list is by size, does this help too???

Here's the list:
x 23.060 k
Rox-Filer 16.412 k
3 13.444 k
blinky 13.104 k
freememapplet-t 11.672 k
icewmtray 6.380 k
exposestart 5.240 k
cupsd 3.932 k
autocutsel 3.724 k
xwin 3.024 k
xinit 2.724 k
...

if this won't help, i will start another trial with the CPU-Usage.

aragon

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MU
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#32 Post by MU »

yes, this will not help unfortunately.

Please click twice on the cpu-usage.
The first click "sorts" it by lowest usage, the second click will show the most resource-intensive ones first.
Those we need to know.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

aragon
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#33 Post by aragon »

Hi Mu,

back again. I tried it once more from a thumbdrive. Boots faster but same problems:

- Xorg does not work. Xvesa works.
- No working possible because of the system/mem-usage.

Here's the list with continuus refresh and cpu-usage:

runexpose: 4.0
3: 2,8
X: 1,2
3: 1,1
iu_gps: 1,0
freememapplet-t: 0,7
wmsm: 0,5
conky: 0,4
kswapd0: 0,3
blinky: 0,3
wmtop: 0,3
loop0: 0,2
autocutsel: 0,2
wmfishtime: 0,2
init: 0,1
....

Aragon

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MU
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#34 Post by MU »

that is no high usage.
You can deactivate the start of expose by deleting the entry in "autostart" on the desktop (then restart X).
But 4% CPU-load is not high.

I currently have no idea, what causes your slow performance.
Maybe an erratic display driver?

Anyone has an idea?

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

PaulBx1
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#35 Post by PaulBx1 »

Hello Mark, I am trying mini-Muppy 008.2. First of all, thanks for thinking about us non-German speakers! :) I took some German in school but never got comfortable with it.

I ran into a couple of snags upgrading from Puppy 2.16.1. My computer is an old Thinkpad A21m with 320MB of memory, and I'm booting from the CDROM.

1) It said "checking if version update" and then nothing for a long while. I'm assuming it went through the usual but it was disconcerting that no printout happened like it usually does with puppy. Is that intentional?

2) I had to run the network wizard to tell it what profile to use. Then my internet connection was OK.

3) It couldn't find my old pup_save. I finally noticed you called yours "msy" so I renamed mine (keeping a backup of course) and then Muppy found it. I'd suggest muppy become pup_save aware, asking if a pup_save should be used, or at least suggesting to the user (if a pup_save is found but no msy_save), that a rename has to take place for muppy to find it.

4) I noticed when I select "reboot computer" from the menu it still prints the message suggesting the computer be turned off. A minor thing...

5) There was a bit of a bobble getting xorg running. When I finally got through running xorgwizard I got xorg running, except I have no wallpaper or icons. Only the menu/taskbar. I am using it now to post this, but probably it would be nice to have icons. :wink:

I think I am going to retrace my steps, this time though I am going to uninstall everything in 2.16.1 first to clean out any extraneous old stuff and also save the upgradefiles from /tmp like I usually do (by the way, that has always been an irritation in Puppy for me - that the upgradefiles only exist over one boot because they are stored in /tmp, so if you forget to save them they are lost forever. I wish they were placed in /root so they'd stay around for a while).

Thanks for all the hard work!
Last edited by PaulBx1 on Wed 20 Feb 2008, 04:24, edited 1 time in total.

PaulBx1
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#36 Post by PaulBx1 »

One other item.

In 2.16.1 Seamonkey had an annoying habit of crashing while watching long youtubes, for example, about 2/3 of the way through this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4gRRk2i-M
I could then restart Seamonkey and it would work OK (except for long youtubes).

I was hoping Muppy would clear that up because of its later version of Seamonkey. Instead, it is worse. About 1/4 of the way through that youtube it hangs; shortly after that the cursor freezes, and apparently there is no way to get out of it other than rudely powering-off the computer.

(Edit)
I tried this again while watching "top". Seamonkey started with around 83% of the cpu and that stayed the same all the way through (seemed high...). Seamonkey also consumed 58% of memory at the beginning. After a while there was a temporary stoppage, then after it continued the memory consumption went up to 69% and stayed there for a while. Then I got the hang; the last reading I got out of top before it hung was 110% of memory, which I thought was a good trick.

PaulBx1
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#37 Post by PaulBx1 »

It occurs to me that it would be handy to be able to boot Muppy and mini-Muppy on the same machine, using the same msy_save file. Is this possible? I'm guessing the .sfs file would have to be named differently between the two versions, on the hard drive. That is, they both can't be named msy_082.sfs

The reason I'd like this is that most times I'd be using mini-Muppy, but occasionally I want the full load of applications even if it runs slower.

Of course if one has only Firefox as a browser and the other only Seamonkey, that won't work.

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MU
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#38 Post by MU »

you can use the addons.sfs for Mini-Muppy.
Then it has all the programs from the big Standard-Muppy.

Concerning the upgrade:
when I upgraded an older Muppy, I got a lot of messages during the upgrade.
It is not intended, that you saw none.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

PaulBx1
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#39 Post by PaulBx1 »

I redid the upgrade from 2.16.1, this time first uninstalling all packages and compressing mail folders, etc. Same result.

I looked in /tmp after boot and there was no versioncleanup directory, so it looks like no upgrade took place.

Again, I have no icons and a blank screen except for the taskbar.

I want to make sure I am doing the right thing. I simply booted into ram, and renamed my pup_save_crypta216.2fs to msy_save_crypta082a.2fs, and booted Muppy which found the latter.

I noticed that the file /initrd/PUPPYVERSION is "082". This is less than "216" from my Puppy. Could that be what is stopping the upgrade?

I have saved all the files from /tmp and from /initrd/tmp from this boot. One thing I noticed in /tmp/bootsysinit.log that looked strange:

Code: Select all

Mounting devpts: Mounting /sys: Unionfs layers have changed since previous boot, fixing menu...
Generating master help page /usr/share/doc/index.html...
Processing /usr/share/doc/pctel.txt
Processing /usr/share/doc/LinNeighborhood.txt
Processing /usr/share/doc/Pudd.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/Xdialog.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/abiword.htm
... many more of these...
Processing /usr/share/doc/xnetload.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/yaf-splash.htm
Processing /usr/share/doc/ycalc.txt
Generating /root/.icewm/menu...
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

** (process:12041): WARNING **: Failed to connect to the FAM server: Connection failure
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

** (process:12056): WARNING **: Failed to connect to the FAM server: Connection failure
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

** (process:12071): WARNING **: Failed to connect to the FAM server: Connection failure
failed to find gam_server
Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-root-

...many more of these...
Does that tell you anything?

By the way I noticed every minute or so my disk starts thrashing around when it should be quiet. I looked at "top" and it is the "find" command. What is going on with that?

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Barburo
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#40 Post by Barburo »

Hi PaulBx1,
It's probably best to start fresh with a new .2fs save file. Remember that this Muppy release of MU's is still under development and will have some bugs. I tried it at first with my existing save file but things were not quite right. I did a clean install and no problems (at least not relating to set-up).

Back up your existing save file, boot from CD with the pfix=ram parameter, set up xorg and anything else you want, and save a new .2fs file. I always give it a name relative to the Pup I'm setting up (it asks you for a distinguishing string). Muppy has a built-in utility for mounting previous .2fs or .sfs files by clicking on them. This lets you retrieve any files or data that you previously stored in them. (Tip: to avoid having to re-download PETs you need, simply keep them in a previous .2fs file instead of deleting them after the PET has installed. New Pup? Copy the PET file from the .2fs file to your new file system and run it.) See other posts in this forum about NOT doing full installs for Puppy - you don't need to, it wasn't really designed to be used that way.

In any case with any of the Pups based on Barry's 3.xx series you can group the files for that Pup together in a subdirectory. This makes it easy to keep different versions separate. I make a frugal install for each one, then use Grub for a menu. If you specify psubdir in the Grub entry in menu.lst it will look for a save file first in that sub directory. It's quite simple (even I can do it!) In fact you don't even need to do the frugal install - just look inside the mounted CD, copy the files you need (vmlinuz, initrd.gz, current save file, zxxx.sfs and any other .sfs files ) to the sub directory, and add a new entry to Grub's menu.lst. I run grub from an existing NTFS partition where I also store all of the subdirectories containing save and squash files. Each is Typically less than 1Gb in size. I only need ext3 partitions for a Linux swap file (about 500Mb) and for Ubuntu (8Gb or so). All Pups run from a save file and in memory so they don't touch the rest of the installation. To keep the size of .2fs files down I frequently store information "outside" of the .2fs system. If you don't want to mount extra volumes simply use /mnt/home to store stuff on NTFS. No problems for me doing this.

One other trick you may find useful if you have Vista pre-installed and want to run one or more Puppies without having to use a CD each time. Vista gets really touchy about anything interfering with its set-up. You can leave the existing MBR alone and add an entry to the boot-loader for Vista by using a (free) windows program called EasyBCD1.5, which will add an entry to the boot menu. Choose this option and a "Grub for DOS" menu is displayed. The Grub files with menu.lst are in a directory NST on the Vista partition. You can also store your Puppy sub-directories on the Vista C:\ partition. In this way you can run multiple Puppies without using the CD and without touching Vista. (Other entries in this forum also describe using EasyBCD).
**Warning - if you want to partition your disk, use Vista to do the first repartition or you will "lose" the Vista install. (EasyBCD can get it back for you if you do). Once you have Vista defined in its own partition you can use gparted in Puppy to repartition the remaining space however you like.
[i]Laptop[/i]: Acer Aspire 5810TZ

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