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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppy-302Alpha2_barebones-skipstone.iso available
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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Vienna Austria

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 06:17    Post subject:  Puppy-302Alpha2_barebones-skipstone.iso available
Subject description: plus all of Barry's updates since the first version - see developer blog
 

Puppy-302Alpha2_barebones-skipstone.iso available. Get it here:

http://www.puppylinux.ca/tpp/tronkel/puppy-3.02_Alpha2_barebones-skipstone.iso

I have bitten the bullet here and included the Skipstone browser along with the mandatory Seamonkey. I think I can justify having both, on the basis that according to the modular Lassie concept, the core Chihuahua should have all of the basics "out of the box". Email is therefore provided by Seamonkey and faster browser courtesy of Skipstone. Skipstone is not quite perfect yet, so Seamonkey is there should it be required.

For this barebones version (Chihuahau module), I have tidied up the default positioning for the desktop icons.

This version also contains all of Barry's updates since 302Alpha1 was introduced. These include an updated glibc-2.5-1, PCMCIA fix, updated rc.modules, rc.shutdown and Puppy universal installer back-ported from Dingo. I have therefore called it Alpha2. Use this version as your Chihuahua base rather than any previous barebones version.

Retro versions of barebones and standard full Puppy3.02Alpha will follow very soon.

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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 10:41    Post subject:  

What is the default WM to be?
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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 11:18    Post subject:  

tronkel,
I was wondering how you are going to manage distribution of your latest Unleashed? Will you be making it into a tarball and uploading it somewhere, as I did for the 3.02alpha1?
I suppose in theory it would be possible to create a difference tarball that could be installed over the alpha1.

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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Vienna Austria

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 13:05    Post subject:  

Barry wrote:

Quote:
I suppose in theory it would be possible to create a difference tarball that could be installed over the alpha1.


Good idea. I could make a tarball of the 302 skeleton plus the other packages that were either added or altered. This will be a much smaller item to upload than the full Unleashed. All the user then has to do is to untar the tarball and copy the contents of this directory into the packages directory as exists in the standard Unleashed. How about a neat little script/gui that would do this with one click? Could maybe add this to the standard Unleashed ready for use. Call it "update_packages.sh"?

I'll use my TPP account at puppylinux.ca for this. (thanks to Caneri)

It'll take me a day or two to get this organised due to work and family commitments (whatever that is).

Ah yes, there is life outside of Puppy Linux (or so I'm told).
The wife keeps mumbling something about divorce. No idea what she's talking about.

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Last edited by tronkel on Wed 20 Feb 2008, 13:18; edited 1 time in total
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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Vienna Austria

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 13:13    Post subject:  

Alienjeff wrote:

Quote:
What is the default WM to be?


The latest JWM in as found in 302 Alpha looks pretty good to me. So I would suggest leaving this as the default for barebones, full and retro versions of these.

If you want EZpup/Icewin eye-candy, simply download a Lassie sfs module to your /mnt/home folder and re-configure the boot options as usual with bootmanager and then reboot - then exit to a prompt and type: xwin starticewm.

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 13:35    Post subject:  


http://puppylinux.org/wikka/TalkingStickLassie

Thanks Tronkel,
Really appreciate what you are doing Smile
Put the info on the wiki and been playing with the new version
I upgraded (booting from CD with a save file on HD)

Been using Flock (which I really don't understand the point of at all - at present
Flock just seems buttons linking to bookmarks - I know this is unfair
but I refuse to 'learn' a browser) Crying or Very sad

Also been using inkscape to change the background

That battery monitor is very good Smile
The time seems about 4 hours behind (think Barry mentioned this as a known bug)
CUPS printed well twice and then garbage (someone else mentioned this)

I also noticed that no media player s present or working?
This is 92MB - Is that large for a Barebones?

We need testers and feedback Very Happy

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Last edited by Lobster on Thu 21 Feb 2008, 03:32; edited 1 time in total
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klu9

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2008, 20:57    Post subject:  

Coblitzed link:
http://coblitz.codeen.org/www.puppylinux.ca/tpp/tronkel/puppy-3.02_Alpha2_barebones-skipstone.iso
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 01:01    Post subject: small window  

The (very) small window at the right end of the task bar now stands out because of the dark background. Any way this can be blended with the background?

In the small screen of the eee (or the Classmate), the task bar is auto-hidden, and this small window has become visible.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10750
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 03:11    Post subject:  

Hey tronkel

It looks promising:)
Just one thing, I was wonder if possible, could you compile skipstone with the latest Firefox? The skipstone developer said it was possible and personally I think it would be a savings of 15+MB in size and if you want a ultra small email client to replace seamonkey's then maybe have a look at this post I started. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26505
its only 120kb and works excellent. Smile

I think a setup like that would really set this Puppy on-Fire. Smile
Isn't it time that we let the monkey out-to-drift into the sunset?
ttuuxxx

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: GB

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 04:40    Post subject:  

On the basis that criticism can be helpful, I am having trouble with this logic? Nothing wrong with Skipstone - nothing at all. The persitent complaints are against the excessive bloat of Seamunster, in particular, and the ceaseless bloat of this particular compact distro. Of course, everything including the kitchen sink can be added - several branches have done this. The trick is deciding what can be removed to get back towards the magic number of 50Mb - the (now almost non-existent!) credit card limit. First step by John with MeanPup successfully substituted Opera - possibly the most popular derivative of Puppy in this direction. BK recently tried another browser which didn't seem too popular. Dillo may be just too basic and Links-2 is for specialist CLI users. But Skipstone - yes. Now do the clever stuff and trim some other fat as well whilst you're at it?
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 05:34    Post subject:  

Quote:
On the basis that criticism can be helpful,

Smile On that basis my only criticism of criticism is that positive reinforcement is more effective. Smile
What is your critique of that idea? Or better still, is it a positive contribution Sage?

If you remove a browser and try and make do with Dillo or Skipstone, the first thing most people will do is add a browser (probably Firefox) that can handle sites that use Flash and expects Firefox/Internet Explorer. I know I will.

The first Puppy was I believe around 40MB
I would not want to use it.
Even Puppy 1.09CE was best with 128MB ram or more

I am hoping Ttuuxxx is right and a saving of 15MB is possible Smile

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10750
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 07:52    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Quote:
On the basis that criticism can be helpful,

Smile On that basis my only criticism of criticism is that positive reinforcement is more effective. Smile
What is your critique of that idea? Or better still, is it a positive contribution Sage?

If you remove a browser and try and make do with Dillo or Skipstone, the first thing most people will do is add a browser (probably Firefox) that can handle sites that use Flash and expects Firefox/Internet Explorer. I know I will.

The first Puppy was I believe around 40MB
I would not want to use it.
Even Puppy 1.09CE was best with 128MB ram or more

I am hoping ttuuxxx is right and a saving of 15MB is possible Smile


I did rip apart Seamonkey once and removed 50% of it, Size wise mostly libs, and Skipstone still worked fine, when i removed 70% it became really slowwww. But to start with Firefox is way smaller then Seamonkey extracted around 30% smaller.
So If i had a version of Skipstone compiled with Firefox, I could more easily rip apart Firefox, and bring that down a lot faster and smaller, And maybe repackage it as a Skiptone only release:)

The only problem I've ever had with Skipstone is that it doesn't get links from the clipboard.
That could of either been the way it was compiled or maybe something the author of Skipstone overlooked?

Other than that Skipstone I feel by far wins against all the other lightweight Web browsers for speed, looks, and options Smile
ttuuxxx

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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 09:13    Post subject:  

Here we go again. It is browser wars time again!

I was very surprised to find ANY browser in barebones.

I agree with Sage. 90+MB seems a bit large for a bare bones.

I agree with Lobster - the first thing you do is load a browser.

BUT if you keep the browser out of barebones and have individual sfs files for Seamonkey; Firefox; Operal; etc. you can select your own personal favourite without starting browser wars again!

As it stands you load Chihuahua and Lassie Firefox and you get TWO bloated browsers when you only need one!

I will say it again.

Keep barebones Chihuahua the BASICS. Then create sfs files for EACH browser; EACH Office pack; EACH media blayer; Developer Pack; game pack etc.

Pick and mix your favourite apps. Use MU's SFS Combiner to create your personal SFS. You then have your own Puppy made of Chihuahua and your personal SFS. No more Browser/Office/media player wars. Every one happy. We can concentrate on getting the bugs out of Chihuahua and creating the individual SFS files without getting distracted about which browser/office pack/media player, ... to include.

When you have got these modules in place then you can create some standard combinations for Newbies to get going with no messing around.

This idea is not new. Whodo sort of did it with 2.15CE but the individual SFS files mentioned on the wiki seem a bit limited.

I'm not technical enough to know whether this is possible BUT it does seem a good idea.

ICPUG
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 09:36    Post subject:  

ICPUG wrote:
I agree with Sage. 90+MB seems a bit large for a bare bones.

A bit large? There's a contender for the 2008 Understatement of the Year award. IIRC, poor Todd Richardson was taken to task for touting his 44M puplet as being "barebones." Now a year or two later, 90M is "barebones?" WTH?

Remember when the standard issue Puppy was around 60M (with a browser, email client, chat client, word processor, text editors, etc)? What happened? Greed. I want this, he wants that. She wants both.

Quote:
I agree with Lobster - the first thing you do is load a browser.

Elinks, Dillo and HV3 are browsers ...

Quote:
Keep barebones Chihuahua the BASICS. Then create sfs files for EACH browser; EACH Office pack; EACH media blayer; Developer Pack; game pack etc.

Define "BASICS." All of this boils down to whether or not Chihuahua is to include a browser or not; and if so, how fancy a browser. Dictate, executive decision or poll?

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geneven

Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Location: Agoura Hills, California

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2008, 09:58    Post subject: Skipstone  

I dunno, but I had never heard of Skipstone till recently, and I seem perfectly happy with it so far, which is more than I can say for the other alternatives to Firefox. Well, actually I loved Dillo too, but it's just not advanced enough to use for all one's browsing.

But in the long run, I need flash and java and the extensions that come with Firefox.
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