Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Mon 01 Sep 2014, 04:55
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy's Website: Discussion
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 3 of 15 [217 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., 13, 14, 15 Next
Author Message
Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 02:06    Post subject:  

Quote:
Using this feature means a page modification for all Puppy sites
Not if you used frames. Then you could have the new site incorporate all the others without changing them at all. Plus, that way people who want nothing to do with it can just keep using the addresses to the actual forum/blog/wiki/whatever and not get a frame shoved down their throats, and without needing cookies to "save" the setting.

On the down side, using a frame would mean you get that much less viewing space, since you can't just scroll away from them. I didn't work with frames for very long back in my web-coding days, so I don't know if it's possible to set up a chunk of javascript to 'collapse' a frame by resizing it. If it is, that would be cool. I know that the frames can be set as manually resizable as long as you don't make the border invisible. That's a little ugly though, unless you can apply style-sheets to them. I got into CSS after I stopped using frames so I'm not sure if you can do that. I know you can use CSS on forms and such, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Anyways, as a worst case scenario there could be a link on the upper part that sends you to the actual page without using frames, like Google Images uses. And every browser I've ever used also supports right-clicking and choosing "view this frame only" or some such thing.

_________________
Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
LOF


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 115
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 03:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
Did I miss the code by LOF?


Nope. That was only a mockup. If people want then I'll code something nicer as a 100px frame or so. Frames are the bane of many web developers though and are discouraged by many. But it seems that this might be the best way of going about it.

Frame code would probably be as follows:
Code:
<html>
 <frameset rows="100px,100%">
   <frame src="frame1.htm">
   <frame src="frame2.htm">
 </frameset>
</html>


Obviously a homepage like tombh's site would still be required for everything to come back to.

To add my own personal experience, I found Puppy hard to get info on to start with, as it was impossible to keep up with the latest stuff here when only really using the wiki. Some huge glorified rss feed would be great to keep up with the latest news and announcements (think LatestNews wiki page on steroids).

@ttuuxxx - the fedora menu is very aesthetic and minimalistic but would work better as a top menu rather than a side one. We all much prefer scrolling down to scrolling left and right. Great design though.

_________________
Cheers,

LOF
Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
headfound


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 345
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 04:20    Post subject:  

There is a CSS frame example right here -

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/layouts/frame.html

each page must have the frame coded to work though. Is there any way of getting a php script to grab (for example) the pages called from this forum and dynamically sticking the css on top so the end user just clicks the forum link and its done?

_________________
Download a better Computer Smile
Puppy Linux Song
altern8life
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 04:30    Post subject:  

One way to set up a news type environment (similar to digg.com)
is Pligg
http://www.pligg.com/

It is easy to set up (even I have done it) Cool

_________________
Puppy WIKI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
SirDuncan


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 11:07    Post subject:  

Frames would not necessarily be required to achieve that effect without page modification. PHP should be able to do it, and you could still scroll down and away from it. The trick would be writing the code that changes all of the links on included pages to point to the PHP version of the page instead of the normal one. I'm afraid my knowledge of PHP is not great enough to do that without some research.

I personally think that we need to move all of the main Puppy pages to a central server so that we have an easier time dealing with security. While we are at it, we might as well re-do the sites and combine them. I guess I prefer to stick with what Tom is already doing.

_________________
Be brave that God may help thee, speak the truth even if it leads to death, and safeguard the helpless. - A knight's oath
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 15:52    Post subject:  

Quote:
Frames are the bane of many web developers though and are discouraged by many.
I didn't mind them as a developer, but I generally hate them as a user. Thus why I eventually stopped using them.

Quote:
Frames would not necessarily be required to achieve that effect without page modification. PHP should be able to do it, and you could still scroll down and away from it. The trick would be writing the code that changes all of the links on included pages to point to the PHP version of the page instead of the normal one. I'm afraid my knowledge of PHP is not great enough to do that without some research.
I don't know if that would work with the forum very well though. I think it would be fine for viewing it as a guest, but logging in and posting would probably be tricky.

Of course, I have no problem with keeping the forum separate. I prefer it this way really. If I were in charge of all of this, I'd just add a link up at the top that points to the main page, and otherwise leave the forum how and where it is now.

Quote:
I personally think that we need to move all of the main Puppy pages to a central server so that we have an easier time dealing with security. While we are at it, we might as well re-do the sites and combine them. I guess I prefer to stick with what Tom is already doing.
I agree with that with the exception of the forum and maybe Barry's blog. You don't want your eggs scattered willy-nilly, but you don't want them all in the same basket either. Besides the security hazard, having a bunch of eggs in one basket makes that basket pretty heavy.
_________________
Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
SirDuncan


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 19:25    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
I don't know if that would work with the forum very well though. I think it would be fine for viewing it as a guest, but logging in and posting would probably be tricky.

I wasn't even considering the forum. That would be a real trick.

Pizzasgood wrote:
I agree with that with the exception of the forum and maybe Barry's blog. You don't want your eggs scattered willy-nilly, but you don't want them all in the same basket either. Besides the security hazard, having a bunch of eggs in one basket makes that basket pretty heavy.

I definitely agree about the forum. Besides the too-many-eggs issue, moving the forum would be a major task, and we haven't had any major security issues here. Why mess with what works?

As for the blog, even if it doesn't get combined into the site, it needs moved to a different host. Servage appears to completely compromised, and they aren't doing anything about it.

_________________
Be brave that God may help thee, speak the truth even if it leads to death, and safeguard the helpless. - A knight's oath
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
HairyWill


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar 2008, 03:27    Post subject:  

Before you talk about moving (or not) Barry's blog, website, wiki and John Murga's forum it might make sense to talk to them.

Barry seems to have had a lot of trouble with blogs over the past year. If someone was to offer to maintain a blog for me I would be grateful (as long as I maintained full control)

_________________
Will
contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
tombh


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 422
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar 2008, 07:43    Post subject:  

So to summarise there seems to be some consensus concerning both security and continuity.

Security
In terms of improved security we have been kindly offered the option of Caneri's server.

Continuity
The main sites involved are the; main website, wiki, developer's blog, forum and manual. In terms of continuity we have a number of options --

(1)Frames
PROS:
*simplicity
*easy maintenance
*no need to move great lumps of data about the internet
*freedom of choice for users
CONS:
*frames unreliably integrate with browser history and bookmarking.

(2)PHP-ification (okay I made that word up!)
BRIEF: This basically involves having a centralised CSS design somewhere on the internet. Either, a site is programmed to get this design from a centralised location OR the centralised location is programmed to get the contents of the individual site and output it as part of its own. The reasoning behind a centralised design is that if ever a change was made to the design it would take effect instantly across all the sites without any extra work.
PROS:
*rich-man's frames -- i.e. many of the advantages of frames but without the inherent cons
*from a design perspective there would be more scope for a tighter and cleaner stylistic integration.
CONS:
*each site would need some coding thus requiring the consent and involvement of each maintainer
*users would effectively be loading two websites incurring compound download delays

(3)All sites on one server
PROS:
*frames for the gods Wink -- i.e. all the advantages of frames and PHP-ification but without either of their inherent cons.
*Not only would all the sites be under the control of one server but they could also be under the control of one CMS, one user database and one cookie/session.
CONS:
*all our eggs in one basket
*requires not only significant individual commitments but also significant commitments to work together
*large amounts of data would need to be moved across the internet and some of it would need to be manipulated (eg Wikka Wiki to Drupal 5)

Postscript
Firstly, I feel that the Developer's Blog is a seperate issue (see this post in the beginning of the thread) and should not be considered in our plans for continuity unless explicitly directed by Barry himself.

Also I think that the forum is really a whole other task in itself, certainly a very important and feasible one, but one that I don't think would be sensible to commit to at the moment. As Hairywill suggests, first we would need to discuss it with John Murga and then we would need someone who was willing to give the task individual attention -- which I might be able to do one day, but not at the same time as making a Puppy website. However, just to wet your appetite, there is a well-maintained phpBB module for Drupal.

My own personal preference for the continuity solution is number (3). The reason for this is not so much because of the technologies involved but because it is fundamentally reliant on a deeper meaning of continuity -- namely that continuity is a reflection of the willingness of the community to work together. For me it is this, above anything else, that will bring continuity to Puppy's web presence. In this way I'm sure we'll hardly even have to think about continuity as it will just happen by itself.

I also just want to make a brief point about the proto-site that I made. Even though it is up there on the verge of becoming a fully functional site, I'm willing to start over -- if that's what's needed! When I first started thinking about this project I wanted to be very careful about how I approached it, on the one had I knew that the community had to be involved, yet on the other I understood that if I was to offer my services I needed to prove that I was not merely in the realms of great ideas, I needed to have something to prove that I meant, and could do, business! So that's why the proto-site is there, it is just as much an example of what is possible as a token and expression of my willingness and enthusiasm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
HairyWill


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar 2008, 10:06    Post subject:  

I think this project needs doing but the social/organisational issues are just as hard as the technical ones

Here is a list of a number of puppy websites/repositories (apologies to anyone I have missed)

http://www.dotpups.de
http://www.puppylinux.ca
http://www.puppy-linux.info
http://rhinoweb.us
http://www.puppylinux.net
http://puptrix.org
http://www.murga-linux.com
http://home.no.net/zigbert/downloaders
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/wmd04r/puppy
http://www.giovelug.org
http://www.puppylover.netsons.org
http://www.puptrix.org
http://www.grafpup.org
http://www.minipc.org
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/grafpup-77
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/puppy-71
http://www.erikveen.dds.nl/qemupuppy
http://openlab.jp/puppylinux
http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com
http://www.moulinier.net
http://www.lin-web.be
http://hi.baidu.com/puppylinux
http://e-pup.5d6d.com
http://www.hacao.com
http://digilander.libero.it/puppylinuxitalia
http://www.tmxxine.com
http://www.puppyrus.forum24.ru
http://www.ecomoney.eu
http://edupup.pieroni.biz
http://fabionicolascabrera.es.tl
http://www.puppyrus.ru
http://www.ecomoney.co.uk
http://micro-hard.homelinux.net/puppy
http://www.ttuuxxx.com

under Barry's control I think
http://puppylinux.com
http://puppylinux.org
ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/

dead sites which probably still get hits
how much valuable information was lost with these
http://www.puppyos.com
http://www.zen45800.zen.co.uk/puppy3/index.htm

If one/you/we want a single portal the people maintaining many of these sites need to be asked very nicely to stop compounding the perceived problem. These contributers to the global understanding of the monster that is puppy might find it actually less effort to maintain their contribution if it was in a shared space. That being said they will also have to share editorial control of their content, free and independent thinkers as we are this may not come easily.

we need
- stable easy to navigate repositories preferably multiple identical (load balanced) mirrors. Ideally these will allow uploads from a number of individuals who have earned their stripes and are willing to take responsibility for any software they contribute (maintainer if you will)

- wiki space that we all feel happy to contribute to

- easy to understand, conflict free, version relevant documentation that can be easily maintained and rolled forward to the next version without losing the last

- It would also be nice to be able to hold our own repository for source code. Currently their are large amounts of original source and programs stored as attachments to the murga-forum. Should the forum disappear overnight the community would have great fun reassembling it. John has done an excellent job of providing this forum, I have no reason to believe anything catastrophic will happen to it, it just strikes me as poor contingency planning.

Who will hold the keys? I don't trust anybody else but me Wink

Sorry for the indigestibly long post, Merry Christmas, peace on earth and goodwill to all (wo)men.

_________________
Will
contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss

Last edited by HairyWill on Fri 14 Mar 2008, 01:55; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar 2008, 11:06    Post subject:  

Hi Will et al,

I for one will be more than happy to support a single interface for Puppy.

I also will be more than happy to go back to my original project mission statement...to provide space and bandwidth for the community and let developers promote and share their work from puppylinux.ca. My web site can disappear in a heartbeat and be replaced with the common interface..no worries for me on that.

A skilled administrator is also my main need at the moment to transform the work that is already here with me into a better and more informative site..aka download directories need to be setup with better info here with dates and size etc.

I hope this setup can become a reality soon as spring is coming to my neck of the world and I'll need to get back to work.

As I consider puppylinux.ca a permanent server for the community (thus the name) I have taken on the costs and will continue to cover the costs as long as I am able...(just so you all know)...now I just need someone that is a Linux guru to handle the stuff I'm a tad uneducated about.

EDIT: added from Will's post,
"we need
- stable easy to navigate repositories preferably multiple identical (load balanced) mirrors. Ideally these will allow uploads from a number of individuals who have earned their stripes and are willing to take responsibility for any software they contribute (maintainer if you will)"

exactly!

Best,
Eric

_________________
Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.
Chinese Proverb

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
klu9

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar 2008, 23:08    Post subject:  

if anyone's putting together a list of puppy-related sites, I've got a bunch of them at the bottom of this page:
http://klu9.50webs.com/puppystuff.html

_________________
- Remember: it's a wiki. You can contribute too! Very Happy
- Puplet creators, see DistributingYourPuplet

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar 2008, 00:13    Post subject:  

klu9 wrote:
if anyone's putting together a list of puppy-related sites, I've got a bunch of them at the bottom of this page:
http://klu9.50webs.com/puppystuff.html

ummm you left mine out www.ttuuxxx.com

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar 2008, 01:35    Post subject: archive  

This is an interesting archive of everything Puppy Linux:
http://micro-hard.homelinux.net/puppy/

_________________
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? Get the sfs (English only).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Todd

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar 2008, 03:56    Post subject:  

One of the wonderful things about Puppy is how eclectic it is. There seems to be a lot of talk about “organizing” things. Why? The quirkiness of Puppy and its community is what makes it so wonderful. So what if we have a whole gamut of sites dedicated to this or that agenda? I like it!

Todd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 3 of 15 [217 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., 13, 14, 15 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1291s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0089s) ][ GZIP on ]