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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Phoenix CE - "Start" Menu Design and Layout
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb 2008, 08:42    Post subject: ideas  

Many thanks for your ideas.

Battery support/conky How much extra space will conky take up. If its just a few k then that would be fine. how much resource would the "modprobe battery" take up? Older laptops in my experience are quite rare, but they certainly should be catered for. Is it best to have this support built in or to be added as a pack from psi? Depends on the size/resources required. Would like to see some screenshots for conky, if its not to big perhaps it can be included. One for the space left in pup_save.2fs on a frugal install would be especially useful.

browserAs regards Opera, I think it is a fantastic browser. The interface and controls are far better than seamonkey or Skipstone. It has one major drawback, and that is that is is closed source. While Im not against propriety apps for specialist work (open source is better) for an app as important as a browser I think its much better (read Ethical) that it's inner workings are transparent. Call me paranoid, but its the times were living in. Skipstone also has the advantage of re-using the code from seamonkey to render pages, without having to load the additional components that Seamonkey requires. This makes the whole distro smaller. The opening speed of skipstone is fantastic and Im not even sure that opera could keep up with that (though it generally beats seamonkey hands down. The browser was the only app that was letting the general speed speed down and Im glad that its been sorted ut with a fast useable browse.

Control Panel The current menu's are arranged really illogically. Under the utility menu there are also control panel options such as "resize storage file", as well as the find file functions (a catagory of its own in the 2.10r menus.)

@ Richard
Hello Richard and welcome to the project. Its really good of you to help us out, even though the kernel that we are using will not help you with your vintage of computers. Puppy's kernel has already (IMHO) become too new to adequately support a wide range of the older machines that it is designed for.

I like the idea of the links to the online office suite, and particularly your links to the seamonkey favourites straight from the bar. I was wondering if you would put us together some newb-friendly menus (a .jwmrc file?) specifically for Phoenix, based on your work with 2.10r. Currently the latest "Build" of Phoenix is here

http://www.puppylinux.ca/ttuuxxx/ecopup/puppy-214-remaster.iso
MD5 2C1BE43FB904D3E61FF1EE4CF8A98DF2

Currently its a basic 2.14r 1.01 with added apps. Once the base if relatively complete we will be adding the various utilities.

Many thanks for adding your expertise Richard

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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 771
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 19 Feb 2008, 09:00    Post subject:  

hi all - Ray MK

still no go with conky on pheonix214rm1 - tried everything Tronkel suggested and reinstalled conky using PSI, eventually got a menu entry after installing conky1.4.9_pet - but message said dependancy Libs missing and not know where to find.

qiv is setup as default image viewer and works v well - so not sure what else to do.

did copy files etc from 216ce - still no go

not a major prob as I have conky on 216ce, FHjwm201c, LH215c and its fine - just wanted to see it on 214rm1 - and as a newbie, how easy it is to install a small utility item.

well I have my answer - no so easy 4 newbie's - will have to rely on all you more capable Puppy masters to do your magic - but it was fun trying and I learnt a few things
that I previously was unaware of and didn't understand.

Full hdd install on 96mb ram 400mhz celeron mini pc box went fine - and ph214rm1 runs v well indeed.

Both browsers run v well and like qiv as default image viewer - need to find out how activate image preview in rox.

Not giving up on conky but must have strained the poor brain bud a tad 'cos - got headache now.

meanwhile - best regards - Ray MK
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Tue 26 Feb 2008, 08:20    Post subject:  

Hi Robert,

For reasons best known to itself, the forum software didn't tell me that you'd answered my previous post; I apologise for not responding for that reason. I am sorry.


Now, just a note in passing, about 2.14R "Revisited or Remastered" and I rather like it at first go.

I also tried both the ver 1 and the ver2 EZ-Pup icewm scripts and there is a problem there, the menu just doesn't work (there are only just the bottom two lines), but you can Ctrl-Alt-Bkspace to get back to the prompt if you need, and restart xwin jwm to get a working system. Then xwin icewm to get back to ice-wm.

There doesn't appear to be an XDG menu structure in it, but I may have looked in the wrong place. The icewm menus in the /root/.icewm directory are blank place holding files.

So, again, it's really "Do we need two totally different menu systems in the one operating system?"

I've transferred a working menu (several files, in fact, from 2.15ce and 2.16 into the /root/.icewm directory, and after seeing that they work, I have edited the icewm order of menu lines to put them in the same relative positions as the jwm has them. Looks better.

The mu-rox-traybuttons alterations to line 51 (from memory) in the startup file in that same directory, which puts those traybuttons back on EZ-Pup on 2.15, 2.16 and 2.17 doesn't work on this one. Pity as I think they are useful once you get used to using them (as in Windows 98/Me/2000). I even tried copying the working file from a 2.15ce /root/.icewm and it still didn't show the icons. So there Sad

I'm now toying with the idea of building an icewm menu in 2.16 (should work in 2.14r just as well) that more closely follows my previous work - because of its ergonomics and familiarity for new users fresh from Windows. I still maintain the MS Windows is one of the best - providing you use the w98/Me/2000 variety and no later.

Is this what you would like me to do for this project?


Some local news:
My 4 seat "internet cafe" for an an old folks home I'm planning and assembling stuff for, will need to use either 2.14EZ modified as above, or 2.16EZ similarly modified, as I have an early Twinhead laptop that the ALSA fails to work on 2.15ce.

I have also found a large supply of far more of those transparent icons and I'm working towards 24pixel versions of them and the opaque ones that the EZ-Pup icewm upgrade uses, because the majority of older laptops don't support anything higher-res than 800x600.

Take care folks,

Richard in Adelaide.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 18:23    Post subject:  

good luck with the cybercafe stuff richard, if I can offer any experience just let me know. I was hoping you would convert some of your 2.10 revised jwm menu code for use in phoenix, changed to accomodate the new apps.
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 19:17    Post subject:  

Thanks for answering. Please would you check your PM box for a PM I sent there some days ago?

ecomoney wrote:
good luck with the cybercafe stuff richard, if I can offer any experience just let me know.

I appreciate that, and may need to come back to you on that. A different sort of clientelle than yours, but hey! it's a similar concept. Smile

ecomoney wrote:
I was hoping you would convert some of your 2.10 revised jwm menu code for use in phoenix, changed to accommodate the new apps.

Only too pleased to do that.

Was hoping to find out exactly what else you wanted in the menu, and as you've nominated jwm and v2.10, that's fine. That's where the previous work was done. I'll need to know about the extra apps you've added.

The menu on its own will probably be short of some of the icons, and maybe one or two app start links will be broken too, so I need an ISO (or even a pup_save file plus whatever sfs's you are using) to check what needs adding and what needs altering. Or should I use the "vanilla" 2.14r ISO you linked to in your earlier post?

Would you like the floating command bars too? They are easily removed if not. They are actually currently a separate zip file, part of the overall package.

As is the option to create a 215ce look and the EZ-pup look as an alternative to the native with just the altered menu structure.


FYI There are 3 variants, all similar in both look and function, based on what the file manifest of three different versions comprises. 210 was the original and imho the best, but you may like to change some of the paler icons.

Version 202R2 - a retro of 2.02 like the 2.14 - is another variant.

I've also done one for Version 1.09 which although designed for starting from a win98 desktop, will run very nicely from the GRUB start menu and I was thinking of posting how to do that.


Edits (3)
You can download the ver 2.10pro-2 .jwmrc menu file here and the .jwmrc-tray one here

Rename the existing pair to (perhaps) My.jwmrc and My.jwmrc-tray or something similar. Then rename the downloaded files DOT with a . and keep a backup.

The index.html file in the directory one level up is some info about it.

However the menu syntax is different and doesn't work properly with this version of JWM (which looks much nicer unless it's just the theming). I've started working on the differences, and will initially change just the JWM menu native code if it will allow me.

It didn't.

Later I thought I might look at the XDG stuff which I've now located. Maybe a few days should see a downloadable one. Maybe not.


I've spent several hours this evening trying this and that; I'm having difficulties in finding editable files for the "start" menu, as the MO has changed significantly since the JWM menus I did for 2.15ce.

The tray file is still easily edited, and appears that it will work like the 2.10pro2 version, but there is little value in doing that one on its own.

Richard

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Last edited by richard.a on Thu 28 Feb 2008, 21:17; edited 5 times in total
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 23:31    Post subject:  

Quote:
Battery support/conky How much extra space will conky take up. If its just a few k then that would be fine. how much resource would the "modprobe battery" take up?
The package I used in pcPuppyOS is 368K uncompressed.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar 2008, 06:49    Post subject:  

Hi Richard

Sorry for my absence for a while, my excuses are as follows...house move, enforced "work experience", broken down car and lack of internet access. I am awaiting confirmation from my "boss" today to allow me to work half days so i can devote more time to my charity clients and hopefully even set up a market stall/car-boot selling puppy pc's!

Im not sure about the three different version of the menu. The version that you used in your tutorial (with the internet favourites off the menu) looks very good and should more than suffice. The programs in phoneix so far are simply the ones included in the standard 2.14r , but with an updated web browser (skipstone instead of dillo) and a new pdf reader instead of xpdf (cant remember the name, but has been added to the current menu by ttuxxxx who compiled the latest build).

The cybercafe clients included all age ranges. I used to teach the older IT crowd in an adult education job on M$, and found that all the various virus warning/malware attacks etc really put off these types of users as they were generally a lot more nervous/cautious than most of the other age ranges. Teaching on puppy was a lot easier and inspired a lot more confidence in the students. All the best with it.

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 17:23    Post subject:
Subject description: Follow-up to my previous post
 

Follow-up to my previous post

Anyone got any ideas how to fix the two probs I found in 2.14r please?

1. uneditable menu - I can't find a file anywhere I have looked that will allow me to do this.

2.Ez-Pup installation results in loss of all of menu except bottom 2 lines - Anyone discovered a work-around?



Grrrrrr Smile Very Happy

Richard

PS Thanks ecomoney for your reply, no problemo Smile

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar 2008, 20:58    Post subject:
Subject description: Follow-up to my previous post
 

richard.a wrote:
Follow-up to my previous post

Anyone got any ideas how to fix the two probs I found in 2.14r please?

2.Ez-Pup installation results in loss of all of menu except bottom 2 lines - Anyone discovered a work-around?


UPDATED X2 with newer verson
Hi richard I'm finished making my own lightweight icewm, if you want you could try it out and see if it works.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=8438
you can view info on it here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26861
its only 710kb
Smile
ttuuxxx

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar 2008, 03:55    Post subject:  

The Icewm Lite Version is finished you can get it here and give it a try.
I'm pretty sure it will work fine:)

Q: How to start it for the first time
A:exit to prompt type
startx icewm (Enter)

ttuuxxx
icewm6.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  icewm6.pet 
Filesize  705.9 KB 
Downloaded  383 Time(s) 

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Last edited by ttuuxxx on Fri 14 Mar 2008, 18:45; edited 4 times in total
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar 2008, 06:55    Post subject:  

Thank you, thuuxxx Smile

I have all three of your downloads now, and hope to have a look at applying the final one initially to 2.14r1.01/Phoenix, and then see if it will install to 2.10pro2 as well, later, as an after-thought. I'll do some caps and if you are going to open a thread on it, would be happy to link my caps to the thread. Likely I'll do a brief descriptive page also.

ttuuxxx wrote:
The Icewm Lite Version is finished you can get it here and give it a try. I'm pretty sure it will work fine:)

I posted my cry for help to the 2.14r1.01 thread as well, and Dougal made a suggestion about where I should be editing the XDG menus. So we may be out of the wood there.

Richard

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ttuuxxx


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PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar 2008, 18:48    Post subject:  

The lite icewm manager now has mouse tracking. Smile I'm working on a better theme now.
ttuuxxx

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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat 15 Mar 2008, 00:13    Post subject:  

alienjeff wrote:
Just my 2-cents: I personally find anything more than a two tier menu to be a PITA. It's about the only thing I dislike about v1.09CE.
I personally find anything more than 10 entries per menu a PITA. I get lost.

That's the beauty of XDG you can have either a flat or a categorized menu. I was going to provide alternative structures including a flat structure but something happened that threw me off track. shame on me.

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2008, 19:14    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
The lite icewm manager now has mouse tracking. Smile I'm working on a better theme now.
ttuuxxx

I like it Smile

Thanks ttuuxxx for doing that, I have it working on two machines (one an old one using the irqpoll trick in the boot statement) on both 2.16 and 2.14 (regular, not revisited).

For readers of this thread, there is an explanation why it doesn't currently work in the 2.14 "Revisited" in that project's thread.

I also tried my command button bars (which naturally work as the change in WM isn't going to affect them). And added the shutdown 3-button dialogue from them into the menu on the 2.14 too, so the menu is modifiable.

Give me a couple of days and I'll have some captures here, and with a bit of luck the modified version to go into 2.14R will be available by then too.

Just a couple of personal thoughts... I'm not keen on the graphic you've used in the menu button in the default theme, probably would be fine on one that didn't have a horizontal line across the whole bar.

It might be good to have the trayicons that I think MU did available, next to Blinky. I have no idea how you would put them there lol Smile

I would also like to see a single large puppy-type pawprint on a dark background too, similar to one of the themes in 215ce or EZ-pup. And someone is bound to ask "How do you add more themes?" Very Happy

A fantastic job ttuuxxx, and I think we have a goer here.

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