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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
Test iso 14th October
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2367
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2005, 00:31    Post subject: larger files stored in archive  

A single file that size will default to archive and not be reloaded into ram. the file will still exist on the DVD so keep it up only 4.55 G to go.. He Hee Laughing
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2005, 01:20    Post subject:  

Ted Dog,

Here's how I thought I'd do the test Barry wants done: boot the multisession Puppy DVD-R in a computer which has 512 MB of RAM and 16 GB of mp3 books in (NTFS) HD partition, transfer ~4 GB of those mp3 books into /root/mp3_books, then shut down. If I understand correctly how ms Puppy works, the ~4 GB of mp3s should be saved to the DVD, filling it up so that the next time I boot and then try to save ~1GB of mp3 books, it will tell me I need to make a new disk.

Before I start, is there any reason this can't work? Will 512 MB be enough RAM to do the whole 4 GB in one go, or will I have to transfer it to the DVD in bites <450 MB or so?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2367
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2005, 13:31    Post subject: /root/ = 1/2 of RAM + some swap  

in my experience you will get an out of memory error less than 200M. for some reason half the RAM is not used. try the df command in a terminal window find the amount free in /usr.

growisofs -M /dev/dvd -D -J -R /your mp3 books directory

will fill up the DVD directly from hard drive thereby not using RAM.

it works safely in my experience.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2005, 16:03    Post subject: Testing 14oct05 multisession: handling of full DVD  

Ted: thanks, I might have to use that.

Barry,

Here's what I've managed to do so far:
    1.) Burn 14oct05 multisession Puppy to a DVD+RW with growisofs as per instructions here.
    2.) Boot the DVD I just burned, and use TkDVD to add 4.3 GB (approx) of mp3 files directly to the DVD as a session. I used TkDVD because there is no easy way to enter the locations of several hundred files in growisofs from the command line. Smile TkDVD used the -M and -J options in growisofs (I think)
When I closed TkDVD and shut down the computer, Puppy gave the usual error message,
Quote:
:-?Volume descriptor mismatch. Did you use same mkisofs options?
after the line: "Copying volume descriptors," but it seemed to have worked okay nevertheless. It rebooted and the mp3 files were there when I mounted the DVD. I added a few hundred MB more of mp3 files, this time dragging them to the /root/Archive folder -- which has mysteriously reappeared -- and when I went to shut down the computer it said I would need to start a new disk. I think I followed the directions correctly. The first step seemed to be to finalize the original disk. Everything seemed to be going well but at the end of that step the computer stuck in a loop, endlessly repeating:
Quote:
47000372992/47000372992 (100.0%) @0.0x, remaining 0:00
with no apparent activity of the DVD burner.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 01:14    Post subject:  

(Continued)

Even though the computer stuck after burning the first session of the new DVD, the DVD booted and everything worked, so I went with it. I created a new folder, /root/mp3_books, copied 450 MB of mp3 books to it from the NTFS partition, then rebooted Puppy, saving the session. It took a long time to boot, apparently loading the 450 MB of mp3 books from the DVD back into RAM.

I added another 400 MB of mp3 books to the /root/mp3_books folder and rebooted, saving the session. Again it took a long time to boot, but this time when I mounted the DVD and looked inside I found that the folder from the 2nd session contained 850 MB! Apparently the entire 450 MB saved in the 1st session, plus the 400 MB of the 2nd session, were saved to the second session folder on the DVD. Also, I noticed that the /root/Archive folder disappeared.

The DVD booted, so I added ~400 MB more to mp3_books and rebooted, saving the session. It seemed to save the session ok but failed to boot, finding a lot of bad sectors on the disk. The DVD burner may be failing. It quit working in Windows but seemed to work in Puppy. I plan to try the same experiment again, with a DVD+RW, but with a different burner. Once I'm sure I have the procedure down I'll try it with a DVD+R and a DVD-R, when I can find the time. Smile
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 07:11    Post subject:  

...hmm, I'm getting confused Confused

I think it would be better to follow Ted Dog's suggestion:
growisofs -M /dev/dvd -D -J -R /your mp3 books directory
to fill up the DVD.

At shutdown, when it detects the DVD is full, it executes
growisofs -M /dev/dvd=/dev/zero
which is supposed to fill up the rest of the DVD with zeros then close it.
...from what I can understand of your description, it seems to be stuck
at this stage ...I don't know why.
I wonder if TkDVD has something to do with it? Or using a DVD+RW?
...DVD-R may work better.

Maybe I could change rc.reboot-cd so that it doesn't close the DVD.
...there's no essential reason why it has to be closed I think.
---well, except that it makes shutdown neater, as rc.reboot-cd will
detect if a DVD is closed and not ask if you want to save a session
-- at least, I think I put in code for that.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 11:21    Post subject:  

I realize that wasn't very helpful, but I indend to repeat the test, as a learning experience. Eventually, assuming I learn what I'm doing, I'll notice something that will be helpful. Burning and loading such large files takes a lot of time so it will go slowly. I intend to try Ted Dog's suggestion, but first I have to make the folders containing the mp3 files ready on the NTFS partition. It would take me forever to enter all the files on the command line, assuming I didn't make any mistakes.

Meanwhile, here are some more "screen shots"; two of the shutdown and one showing the error messages at last attempt to boot. This is the DVD which was created by the first DVD, which was the one I filled up using TkDVD. TkDVD was not used to put anything on this DVD. I can't remember for sure, but I think it may actually have booted all the way up, the bad sectors no doubt being in the saved mp3 section.
Saving Multisession Puppy 1.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   27.33 KB
 Viewed   2427 Time(s)

Saving Multisession Puppy 1.jpg

Saving Multisession Puppy 2.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   34.02 KB
 Viewed   2426 Time(s)

Saving Multisession Puppy 2.jpg

Booting Multisession Puppy DVD 1.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   50.57 KB
 Viewed   2421 Time(s)

Booting Multisession Puppy DVD 1.jpg

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2367
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 14:58    Post subject: lack of deep relocation flag in TkDVD  

The TkDVD lacks -D flag support which is used in every DVD supported version to handle directories over (from failing memory) 7 deep. It could cause this error
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 16:16    Post subject:  

Ted,

TkDVD was not used at all to write any part of the DVD that was booting when these pictures were made. TkDVD was only used to write the second session of the first DVD. The first DVD then created this DVD automatically because it was too full to hold any more. Everything on this DVD was automatically formed up and written to it by the multisession scripts in Puppy.
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Ted_Dog
Guest


PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 17:02    Post subject: wine as a usr_more.sfs works  

the Nathans' new wine.gz was converted into a squash file <9M and works very well with the Oct14ms iso. I will upload the usr_more.sfs to my host and provide a link in an hour or so.
Laughing
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2367
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 17:16    Post subject: usr_more.sfs with wine  

here is a squash file version of Nathan F's wine compiled for puppy.

save target as....
http://www.petersieg.org/usr_more.sfs broken link
NEW LINK
www.puptrix.org/wine/usr_more.sfs
add to existing DVD iso with

in terminal change to directory used for download.

Code:
growisofs -M /dev/dvd -D -R -J usr_more.sfs


reboot.
in terminal window type

Code:
wine notepad


to test. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Smile Smile Smile
Edit: changed to Peters' host.

Last edited by Ted Dog on Wed 23 Nov 2005, 15:36; edited 2 times in total
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 21:40    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I'll do it, but is there an intended place to save stuff so it isn't loaded into RAM when Puppy boots? I thought you had somehow solved that problem without the use of the Archive folder, but that was when I was trying out DVD+R, and the whole thing quit working before I could confirm it. I've switched to DVD-R, which so far seems to work OK, but there is no Archive folder and the stuff I save (in /root) is loaded into RAM every time Puppy boots. This would take forever if the DVD was full, even if I had that much RAM.

On a related subject, does ms Puppy look at the actual size of the DVD, and the actual amount of room remaining? I could use a mini-DVD to speed things up. It only holds 1.4 GB.


/root/archive/ folder is supposed to be there. I don't know where it has got to Confused

Ah no, Puppy sees it is a DVD then decides size limit is 4G.
We will have to investigate how to determine if a mini-DVD is inserted.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 21:44    Post subject: Re: dvd+rw-mediainfo on error stream not standard out stream  

Ted_Dog wrote:
testing a no-name CD (burned with ms-14iso) The call to the command goes to error not out.
Code:
DVDRWMEDIAINFO="`/usr/bin/dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/dvd`"

Sad non-DVD media mounted, exiting...


Quote:
# DVDRWMEDIAINFO="`/usr/bin/dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/dvd`"
Sad non-DVD media mounted, exiting...
echo $DVDRWMEDIAINFO
INQUIRY: [AOPEN ][DUW1616/ARR ][1020] GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION:


Sorry to miss this earlier. Rolling Eyes


Ah yes, I already corrected that. The code is now:
Code:
DVDRWMEDIAINFO="`/usr/bin/dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/dvd 2>&1`"


...I will have to upload a new ms-iso soon!
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 21:47    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I just don't have any idea how this thing works. I burned a DVD-R, booted, saved a 150 MB file to /root, then rebooted. It took so long to save to, then load from the DVD that I assumed it was reading the large file from the DVD back into RAM. But when I rebooted again, it didn't take long to save the little I had changed, and it didn't take long to load. What's going on, Barry?


I can understand why it was slow to save. growisofs seems to burn a only 1.x times even though we use the "-speed=4" option.
But, I have no idea why bootup was slow ...confused again! Confused
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct 2005, 16:57    Post subject:  

I'm doing a lousy job of reporting. One thing I forgot to mention is the DVD burner I used for the testing. It is a Memorex dual format 8x/4x. Perhaps it ignores growisofs speed commands and burns at whatever speed its firmware determines to be best. From the first image in this post, it appears that, when shut down, multisession Puppy saved to the Cheap (2.4x) DVD+RW at an average of 2.1x.
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