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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
Multisession DVD
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11129
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2005, 11:11    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:
...I didn't even know there are mini-dvds!

They are the same size as mini-CDs (8 cm) and hold 1.4 GB. Memorex have an 8cm mini DVD-RW with "DuraLayer" scratch-resistant coating. I bought a 3-pack for $15 to try out. They boot fine in my computer.

DVDs are better than CDs in another way: the data layer is sandwiched in the center of the thickness of the disk, not on the back side close to the surface where a scratch can easily obliterate it.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2391
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2005, 22:41    Post subject: V1.05Alpha DVD  

The improvements with xgine and the playback of larger video files quickly in 1.05Beta looking good. I am looking to work on the new alpha when it is released.. - Ted Dog
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7060
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 17 Sep 2005, 19:53    Post subject:  

Ted,
Note, although 1.0.5rc does not require scsi-emulation, BUT I haven't looked at the multi-session code, which as I recall still uses scsi-emul.
So, will take a look at that now.

If you look at /usr/sbin/createpuppyonline in 1.0.5rc, you will see how burn to cd with cdrecord:

Code:
cdrecord $BURNMULTI -data -eject -v speed=4 dev=ATAPI:$CDR puppy-$RIGHTVER-custom.iso


where CDR="/dev/hdc" or whatever.
BURNMULTI="" or "-multi"

What about growisofs? can it accept something like dev=ATAPI:/dev/hdc?
...what would the format be?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2391
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 17 Sep 2005, 21:03    Post subject: DVD codes  

growisofs is multi-session by default. the tricky stuff is there must not be any spaces around the equal sign. to burn an iso. cdrecord is not piped, not needed.

Code:

growisofs -Z $CDR=puppy-$RIGHTVER-custom.iso


It behaves better if growisofs burns files straight to disk, note lack of equal sign.

Code:

growisofs -Z $CDR  -J -R -D -b isolinux.bin -c boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table $WRKDIRECTORY
 


the -pad should be avoided in constructing iso.

this is the code to append from rc.reboot-cd
Code:

growisofs -M $CDR -J -R -D -new-dir-mode 0755 -graft-points -path-list /tmp/listfinalshutdown.txt 
[/code]
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Ted_Dog
Guest


PostPosted: Sat 17 Sep 2005, 22:30    Post subject: code snippit from modified reboot-cd supporting DVD  

with SCSI on limit 2g
Code:
 echo "Now saving session to burner drive..."
   growisofs -M /dev/scd0 -J -R -D -new-dir-mode 0755 -graft-points -path-list /tmp/listfinalshutdown.txt 
echo "...done"
  fi #ID001

without SCSI limit 4g for last new directory. Data can go to 4.7G physical limit (or over with -overburn )
Code:
  echo "Now saving session to burner drive..."
   growisofs -M /dev/hdb -J -R -D -new-dir-mode 0755 -graft-points -path-list /tmp/listfinalshutdown.txt 
echo "...done"
  fi #ID001

my DVD burner is slave on first ide '/dev/hdb'
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7060
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2005, 06:41    Post subject:  

Ted,
In an earlier code example, the growisofs example did not have the "-D" option
-- what does that do?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2391
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2005, 13:22    Post subject: -D removes deep relcation: growisofs uses mkisofs cmds  

Code:
   #...see note above. Feeding in filelist this way...
   mkisofs -D -J -R -C $SECT -M $DEV -pad -new-dir-mode 0755 -P "Puppy Linux" -p                      "Barry Kauler" -graft-points -path-list /tmp/listfinalshutdown.txt  $MYDATE/$LO                     G=$LOG | cdrecord -multi -data -eject -v speed=4 gracetime=1 dev=$CDR  -
   #...v1.0.4 added -D option. got deep relocation error for PupGets installed i                     nto /root/.usr/
   #   deep relocation does not work for multisession CDs. -D turns it off, but                      violates ISO9660.
   echo "...done"
  fi


I used it to be consistant with above code. In the first example code no mkisofs options are used since the already exist within the preconstructed ISO file.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11129
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2005, 14:45    Post subject:  

Violating iso9660 standard might be acceptable. I only have a hazy notion of how multisession Puppy works, but it seems to me that, except for forensic purposes or the possibility of an undocumented quirk in the CD drive or its firmware, it makes no difference what filesystem multisession Puppy uses on the CD. The multisession CD is completely self-contained; the software that reads the filesystem on the CD, is contained in the OS on the CD.
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep 2005, 18:31    Post subject: Differance  

Quote:
I think a live-dvd strategy will be a winning combination !


so how does that differ from before?Confused
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Perkins

Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2005, 21:23    Post subject:  

Yes, you could use any file system you want on the CD. However, a standard file system that can be read by other operating systems is definitely a good thing. It's really handy to be able to read my files from any machine without having to boot puppy.

Back to the original subject of this thread for a moment, I think packet writing would be a nice addition at some point. Theoretically one could then use a CD/DVD RW as a read-write disk drive. So by carrying a live-CD, and another disk, you could have the equivalent of a computer with a harddrive in terms of the space available and the way programs can access the disk.

One would of course have to be careful to keep backups since RW disks do have a finite number of write cycles. But that would be a relatively minor hassle compared to being able to actually have and run large programs without needing huge amounts of memory or access to a harddrive.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11129
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2005, 22:56    Post subject: Re: 4GiB limit on puppy ver 1.02 multi-session DVD  

Ted Dog wrote:
...Using puppy version 1.02 the new limit was reached. The DVD very near 4GiB boundry gave a new limit...

See about 3/4 the way down this page; the first entry under "Technical Ramblings."

Perkins, the way I interpret it, this means that the 4GB isofs limit would not exist if multisession DVD Puppy used, say, ext2 filesystem instead of isofs. The isofs addressing limit is really 32 bits, but that still potentially wastes ~500MB of a full-size DVD.

As for being able to access a multisession Puppy DVD on any machine, Windows can't open any file on my multisession Puppy DVD. Anyway, in general I wouldn't want it to be easy for anyone to read what's on my DVD.

Using a DVD as a replacement for a hard drive is problematic because of the limited rewrite lifetime of a DVD. From what I've read, DVDs can only be rewritten around 1000 times in a particular spot. Much better to use flash memory for what amounts to swap memory, since flash can be rewritten around a million times. Some flash filesystems move the writing area around so as to maximize the lifetime of the memory. The same could be done for DVD, but flash memory would still last about a thousand times longer than DVD in that service.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2391
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2005, 23:09    Post subject: Windows XP and puppy DVD  

Flash,
How odd, my version of XP service pack2 can read the DVD's just fine. However my laptop (once a ME) has a issue with any CD/DVD with second sessions. Confused
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11129
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2005, 23:22    Post subject:  

Ted, I'm not sure you understood what I meant. Windows can see the files on the DVD (boot.cat, isolinux.bin, image.gz, etc.,) but can't open them. Also Windows also only sees the first session on the DVD.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7060
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2005, 23:58    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Ted, I'm not sure you understood what I meant. Windows can see the files on the DVD (boot.cat, isolinux.bin, image.gz, etc.,) but can't open them. Also Windows also only sees the first session on the DVD.


But you guys are using DVD-RW or DVD+RW right?
I think someone posted that a DVD-R, Windows can see all the sessions?

For DVD-RW/+RW, it may depend on whether the sessions are saved in
sequential mode or overwrite mode.
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2005, 00:04    Post subject:  

i think packet writing drivers deliberately fragment files so all the sectors on the disc are used, to maximize the number of writes that can be done ... and flash drives do the same thing

an interesting (Windows only) program that uses packet writing is AccuBurn

it doesn't require any drivers to be installed either to write or to read the discs, like InCD or DirectCD ... the discs it creates can be read on any OS just like an ordinary disc

what it does, is burns cds/dvds a sector at a time, and checks that the sector burned ok ... if it did not burn ok, it doesn't use that sector and burns the sector again, until the sector is burned properly

then, after all the sectors have been burned, it creates and burns the updated Table Of Contents using only the good sectors that were burned

so the burn is usually very reliable

of course, if there is a problem burning the Table Of Contents, you can lose the contents of the disc, just like a regular cd/dvd

because it burns a small packet at a time, it's impossible to have a buffer under-run

the program is very simple to use, just drag files/folders to the window and click the big red Burn button ... everything is automatic, it asks for a new disc if there is not enough room on the disc ... it doesn't need to be configured for your hardware either, it figures out what hardware you have and what options it needs to use, like cd burning speed, automatically

it's good for TC (technologically challenged) people, but i liked using it because it was so simple and easy to use (i like simple)

it has copy protection in it that connects to the internet the first time you install it, which i found slightly annoying

i have not tried the latest version

anyway, just a review of a Windows program some people don't seem to know about (i have no connection with the company other than having used the program) ... if Linux had an open source equivalent of a program like this, it would make cd/dvd burning very easy and reliable for TC people

picture of Accuburn ... all you ever do is drag files/folders to the right window pane and click the red Burn button

more details
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