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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
vuppy - puppy with SUN vBOX included
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dWLkR


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 07:03    Post subject:  vuppy - puppy with SUN vBOX included  

hi there!

1st of all - i have just tested VUPPY (=> http://www.puppylinux.org/community/blogs/cretsiah/vuppy) it´s f*ck*ng cool... and something i was looking for quite a long time now...

but i need a little more personalized variation of VUPPY... is someone here able to "slightly" modify VUPPY?
- remove all other puppy-apps (don't be angry with me plz - i like puppy very much - it's only for this derivate...)
- do not show the puppy desktop - auto boot into vBOX and auto grab a previously defined vbox-project (it could be defined in a cfg-file or sth.)
- no interaction with puppy-hostOS

thank you VERY much in advance!
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3199
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 09:36    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello dWLkr

I suppose you could strip out all the unneeded apps. with PetBgone, boot into the CLI with a pfix=nox cheatcode, and put a script in startup to start VBox, but I think you would have to choose the Virtual machine manually.
However, interaction with the host is unavoidable, for display, drive access, input ect...Remember, VBox only THINKS its a computer, the host OS does the real work.
Also, I fail to see the advantage of running an OS this way. If you want no interaction with the native OS, then why VBox, why not just install the OS natively??
Just curious Very Happy
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dWLkR


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 10:09    Post subject:  

hi puppyluvr!

thank you for your hint - i'll check this...

puppyluvr wrote:
(...)However, interaction with the host is unavoidable, for display, drive access, input ect...Remember, VBox only THINKS its a computer, the host OS does the real work.(...)
ah, sorry my description can indeed be understood wrong! with "no interaction with the hostOS" I mean: "no user-interaction with the host OS"...

puppyluvr wrote:
(...)Also, I fail to see the advantage of running an OS this way. If you want no interaction with the native OS, then why VBox, why not just install the OS natively??(...)

no problem, the reason is - i need this for ~40 laptop users (different machines - so normally different driver crap within winxp) - they are field workers... of course you can also do it with ghost-images and stuff like that - but then you will have a lot of work with driver crap - each field worker is once a month in my office - and if there are any updates on the various apps they need - i just give him/her the new vbox-image - and i am done Smile
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3199
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 17:25    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello
So basically what you want is the user can only access XP. So, booting into a CLI Puppy, with a script to start VBox would be easy enough, but a script to pre-select and boot a specific virtual machine would ( I think) have to be a change in VBox itself, unless it has a setup for autoloading a specific machine. or if there is a way to do it with a script in Puppy.

In order to execute something Before X starts, we`d have to edit xinit.rc....


While we`re at it, how about a script in Puppy to backup the VBox VDI of XP and update it on shutdown, maybe keeping a log of changes. Backup with a record in case of any problems.[/quote]

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dWLkR


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug 2008, 03:19    Post subject:  

hi!

sounds very nice!

are you able to do this? my linux skills are currently very descent... Smile

i could help testing on various machines and stuff ^^
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3199
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 03:00    Post subject: Update  

Very Happy Hello dWLkR

Well, heres what Ive got. Ive created a Pup based on FF301, which, when you boot it, goes directly to a fullscreen VBox. All they would have to do is click start. No desktop, no menu, no right click menu, no access to Puppy at all. Works great. And it can be booted from the CD. However, here`s the problem(s).
1. In order to install this Pup, you would need the GUI. If you know how to do a "manual" frugal install, (copy 4 files and edit grub), I believe you could install it that way. If you make the grub title Windoze, they would have to click it, and then "start" in Vbox to boot Windoze.
2. Screen size. In Vbox, you are limited to the standard resolutions. Say your laptops are 1024x768. If you set XP`s resolution to 1024x768, the borders of VBox will cause you to have to scroll to see the whole screen. They would be limited to 800x600. 1024x768 on a native 1200x900 would be better, but would have a black border.
3. CPU usage. Vbox will make a laptop run much hotter than average because the CPU is pulling "double duty". most laptops will survive, mine wont. (P4, not the mobile version). If they run hot anyhow, theyll be smoking under VBox.
4. Shutdown. If you close VBox, without any GUI access, how do you shut down. The only way, so far as I can see, is ctrl / alt / bkspce and poweroff.

Quote:
my linux skills are currently very descent...


Very Happy Thank goodness, because mine are not. Very Happy

@ Basically, all I did was:

Booted Puppy ( I used FF301, its 63mb.)
Installed VBox. ( 3 Pets, on 301 and 400)
Created the VDI for XP. (Dynamic Drive Size!! As big as reasonably possible in reality)
Created a Directory in root, "Startup". (Puppy 400 lready has one, 301 didnt, but knew
to look for it.)
Created a script in "Startup" to start VBox.
Edited xinit.rc in Root to comment out the Rox pinboard.
Edited Jwm.rc to comment out the panel.
Dropped out of X and made a save.

##End User perspective##

(Re)booted to a black screen and then VBox.
Click start on the VBox menu.
Used obsolete operating system
Shut down OS thru menu.
Black screen with no access to native OS.
Ctrl / alt / bkspce to prompt (necessary, a direct kill screws up X, requireing user input on reboot)
Type Poweroff.

Is this too much trouble???
VBox gave me access to the CD/DVD drive, but not the USB.
Would this meet your needs??

All in all an interesting project, Thank You!!

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dWLkR


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug 2008, 11:15    Post subject:  

sounds cool!

nice work! finally someone who liked my idea and gave it try ^^ Smile

where is the ISO? Twisted Evil

is there any way to interact with puppy (boot-cheatcodes)?
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3199
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug 2008, 17:59    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Still workin out da bugs, and looking at a way to enable/disable OS interaction.
Maybe a hot=key to turn JWM on and off instead??( Help, Geniuses)
Still pretty dirty, needs more cleanup!!
May need to do some studying. Will post when I know more, or have an ISO ready!! Very Happy

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dWLkR


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 03:10    Post subject:  

sounds really cool man!

thank you so far! ^^
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3199
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon 11 Aug 2008, 00:40    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello dWLkR

@ I hope you dont think Ive forgotten you!! Very Happy
I should have you an ISO in a day or so...
Interaction/ noninteraction created quite a connundrum!!
My first thought was to turn off the pinboard and panel in JWM. This worked well, except, it wasnt "Switchable", meaning no "interaction" was possible. Also left the user no shutdown options except "ctrl / alt / bkspce" and "poweroff". No good.
So heres what Ive come up with!!
2 window managers...(Duh)..Jwm for "no access" and ICEWM for you!!! (You need to be able to install from CD, after all. Very Happy
Readers Digest Version.....
So you boot from the CD into ICEWM, VBox will start. Set up the VBox XP machine, (Put the VDI outside of Puppy.) Install XP.Drop out of X and Switch to JWM. Drop out of X again and type reboot. Make your pupsave.
When rebooted, the machine will boot to a JWM VBox fullscreen. Start XP.
Shut down XP to VBox screen, Close VBox, Right click blank screen, and choose "Shutdown", the only choice. Done deal.
You can access Puppy through IceWM, but they cant.(unless you show them how).
You can also copy their VDI to your VBox to see what theyve been up to...as well as replace it for easy updates......(Or copy, update, replace)
I will include detailed instructions...I promise Very Happy Very Happy
Will post soon, maybe tomorrow, cant think anymore tonight, and a few bugs left to go before I do.. Booting from CD alters my alterations..LOL Twisted Evil

..........Jay............
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dWLkR


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed 20 Aug 2008, 09:03    Post subject:  

hi puppyluvr!

i also hope you don't think i've forgotten you!

i am still waiting impatiently for your release!

everything you have written so far sounds really impressive and i can't wait to get it on my USB-stick/harddisk to play around with it! ^^
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3199
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Thu 21 Aug 2008, 00:03    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello dWLkR,
No, Im still here. Very Happy
Ready to do some testing???
The iso is in my directory at Puppylinux.ca. ( the link in my signature)
It is called "Undercoverpup" and is 90mb. D/L it and the md5.
Attached are instructions.
Awaiting your results.
Remember this is an alpha, not the finished product.

Thanks..
.............Jay....................
Instructions.tar.gz
Description  Zipped Instructions
gz

 Download 
Filename  Instructions.tar.gz 
Filesize  1.29 KB 
Downloaded  553 Time(s) 

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cretsiah

Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Thu 21 Aug 2008, 23:57    Post subject: hi and sorry
Subject description: hi and sorry i came across this thread only by chance
 

ok sorry puppyluvr i havent as yet read ur how to

but was wondering a couple of things.....

a) if you can modify the puppy load up splash then dWLkR could put his companies logo in its place....

b) y not just put a sleep 10 and then add this VBoxManage startvm "windows xp".vdi (or what ever dWLkR has named the virtual machine)
in the rc.local file at etc/rd. (instead of startup)

the sleep command would allow u access to the host o.s. but u would have to modify the boot options screen with a "puppy disable rc.local" option otherwise it would still load into the vm..

as for the shut down options maybe symlink the shutdown reboot option from vbox to puppy's shutdown and reboot commands...

(i have to admit my linux knowledge is pretty crummy ( i cant find the files i need to edit sorry) ...

c) also im a lil worried about the network settings as this only works in vbox if the hosts settings r configured ...we were talking about trying to make use of the booting "load network module" script to include a detect, load corect module (ie ethernet card or wlan card) save then auto dhcp (however this part would need to be left in the open state due to issues with closed networks).....if we could get the detecting/load/auto connect script in the boot up then ppl wouldnt know u were on a virtual computer..

d) the other problem u might have with virtual box is that they like u to register every copy .....and loading onto 40 diferent type of computers might be considered a commercial operation...vbox is not fre for commercial use..

that being said if you can find the save file of the registration detail and copy that to a remaster cd then u would no longer have to keep registering everytime u loaded puppy onto another computer....

once the first vbox session had been setup (using the gui setup) u would want to make sure that the usb v1 and v2 option was enabled, network card option was enabled, booting fromcd drive or just from harddrive option was enabled, serial ports might have to be enabled for dial-up modems (not sure on this) but serial ports on puppy would also have to be configured..

e) if you care to read the manual section about vbox manage, then u can even turn off the vbox logo, and also disable the gui booting option screen....
if u write a script that includes all the vbox manage options ie nologo,startvm "whatever it is" (shouldnt have to include the cd stuff if u have already configured in the gui), then add symlink or echo from vbox's power-off and reboot options to puppy's shutdown and reboot scripts then add this script name to rc.local NOT RC.LOCAL0 ...this hould solve ur problem......

NOTE VBOX RELIES ON HOST BEING CONFIGURED......HOWEEVER U COULD RUN VBOX HEADLESS IF THEY WERE 2 DIFFRENT MACHINES (IE LIKE CONNECTING TO A REMOTE SERVER)

anyway dont know if that helps .......Im having trouble locating the correct files to do the testing.....
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cretsiah

Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Fri 22 Aug 2008, 01:29    Post subject: ok further news on te shut down thingy
Subject description: ok further news on te shut down thingy
 

ok guys have found the shutdown and reboot option script.....

the symlink you would have to make from vbox power off to puppy's compute shutdown would be to the rc.shutdown script at /etc/rd

BUT BIG BUT:: you will have to modify the script to eliminate the options and either change it to auto save to hardrive or no save just shutdown...which would be better im not sure....

the other script (the rebooting script) is part of the wmreboot script it is inside it so this would have to be modified or symlinked to the right spot in the wmreboot script....
the wmreboot script is in usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot

hope that helps

idea is cool though...
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8252

PostPosted: Fri 22 Aug 2008, 13:32    Post subject:  

Hi...

I tried replacing dummy jwm with qemu set to run fullscreen (in my case but vbox would behave similarily) in /root/.initrc and adding echo -n "poweroff" > /tmp/wmexitmode.txt just before.

once in dummy jwm mode boots to windows.......runs............
shutdown in windows shuts down puppy.
crtl-alt-backspace also closes down puppy.
no window manager underneath or pinboard..ie no easy puppy access.
access by either pfix=ram or pfix=nox and swapping window manager.

user point of view...normal windows with dos like initial boot and normal shutdown.

mike
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