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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Documentation Project
English Manual at puppylinux.org
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oli

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 194
Location: Germany, Frankfurt

PostPosted: Fri 15 Aug 2008, 02:54    Post subject:  English Manual at puppylinux.org  

After I handed over the English manual (see www.puppylinux.org) to some new maintainers I concentrated myself on the German manual only and finished it for Puppy 4.00. Now I had a look at the English manual at www.puppylinux.org and unfortunatly I recognised that this manual has still old stuff from Puppy 3.01. I know from Caka (who is the maintainer of the Spanish manual) that he waits that the English manual is finished so he can translate it into Spanish. Because he cannot translate directly from German into Spanish he depends on the English version.

I think the quality of the English manual is most important for the users. So we should think about how to keep it up-to-date. Perhaps one of the maintainers can give a perspective to us.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Aug 2008, 03:20    Post subject:  

Smile Thanks Oli - thanks guys,

As well as 4.00
there is sufficient data emerging on 4.1 to start updating the manual for this:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha6/release-4.1.htm

http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyDingo41

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 15 Aug 2008, 11:51    Post subject:  

Guys, I'm wondering if you should just call it the "4.x manual". If there is anything specific to one version, like 4.1, then a note can be made -- you could even have a little icon with "4.1+" in it. Just a thought.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3212
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 15 Aug 2008, 12:47    Post subject:  

Very Happy Oli
I have posted to this problem before, about the 400/301 discrepancys.
I was holding back for confirmation that I should do this.
I take this as a go ahead. I just didnt want to "overstep my boundrys"

Jay
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caka

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug 2008, 16:53    Post subject:  

Hi Oli, Jay...

I think like Oli that the quality of the manual in English is very important and should be updated before being published.

In addition I can't understand why some new chapters have a content different from the version in German and English. For example:

http://www.puppylinux.org/manuals/puppy-40/deutsch/internetzugang-einrichten/wlan

http://www.puppylinux.org/manuals/puppy-40/english/how-setup-internet-connection/wlan

Perhaps the english chapter and their images are better that the german version; but i believe that the manual should be the same regardless of the language in which it is writing.

Or you seem better than I did a manual in Spanish with my own content without translating the original version ?. What is your opinion?.

And Jay, how you know that I am awaiting the final verison of the manual in english to translate it into spanish. So please Tell Me When you (Jay, Rod & Bill) will finish the manual in english.

Thank you very much and I'm sorry for my poor English.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3212
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug 2008, 20:33    Post subject:  

I feel we need to open lines of comunication between the Manual Translators, to exchange information concerning edits. Perhaps create a list of pages, and split them up between us, to prevent cross editing each other. Many pages requrie a full rewrite to update them from 310 to 400. However, I do not want to rewrite anyone elses work.
The other language Translators are anxious for us to finish the English Manual, so they can translate it themselves, but see the inaccuracy of the existing version.
In its existing form, it is nearly useless for Dingo. If necessary, I will eventually create the necessary pages myself, but this will take some time.
I consider this task an honor, and take it very seriously. However, I do not want to appear to "Step on" anyones work.
I will open a Thread on the Forum to facilitate an easy exchange of ideas, in full view of the Puppy Community, to increase input from others, to aid us in creating the most comprehensive Manual possible.

With Regards, and awaiting your response...
Jay...aka Puppyluvr...
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Billwho?


Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 570
Location: still "In The Dog House" East Coast Oz Trialing 4.20

PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug 2008, 20:57    Post subject:  

@ caka Unfortunately I can't help with your problem as I haven't had anything to do with the newer manual. I have only ever been proof reading the 3xx series manual and not involved with the creation of the 4xx series manual at all. And even this I have been having trouble with, due to the very large amounts of my available bandwidth being used by other projects I currently have going. Just previewing a post can take up to 5 minutes to load.
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caka

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug 2008, 06:21    Post subject:  

Bil Hello and thank you for your reply. I am very sorry that you're not involved in creating the manual Puppy 4.0. Some time ago I told Oli that I don't like the new system to translate its manual form online directly on the website. Always depends on having an Internet connection and we have to go editing, modifying and taxing page by page. I think it was much better the previous system in which Oli sent by e-mail ended the manual in English and translated without being connected to the Internet constantly.

Of course I will prefer that Oli send the whole manual in English gradually because I do not always have an Internet connection to make this work. And also is desperate to have to go editing each page, copying and pasting the content of the English version, to record it and then re-edit the content and translate it into Spanish. THIS SYSTEM IS FOR ME HORRIBLE but I accept it.

Jay I agree with everything you say and of course that there should be greater coordination between the various versions of translators. I continue to hope that somebody tell me that has completed the translation of a new chapter in the English version in order to pass it and update the Spanish version. So please when you change a chapter of the English version tell me to pass it immediately because the Spanish version currently coincides entirely with the English.

And finally say that from my point of view is a mistake that has been published the manual version 4.0 since it appears that many chapters are not updated and there are pictures of the previous version. In my opinion for the next time should not be made public if the manual is not completely finished.

Greetings to all.
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oli

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 194
Location: Germany, Frankfurt

PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2008, 02:31    Post subject:  

I don't agree with you that the English version is too bad and useless. I think the main chapter is how to get and install Puppy. I updated these chapters to version 4.0 before I made the manual available to the community. At the same time I announced my retirement from the English version because it is too much work to maintain the German and the English manual and asked for someone who takes care about the English manual. I pointed out that there is still some work to update the English version 4.00 because some chapters are still from version 3.01.

In the meantime I finished the German manual and made a pdf-version too. I don't feel to be "chief" of all the manuals and I hope that you will find a way how to cooperate at the English manual.

Till now I decided that I write the German manual in my own way, it won't be a translation of the English manual. Of course I will have a look at the English version but "my" manual should have a personal touch and I take liberties to describe my own experiences and preferences (e.g. I describe how to make a backup with rsync instead of the backup-tool because in my opionen rsync is much more powerful and a Linux standard).
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2008, 12:35    Post subject:  

Which came first: the chicken or the egg? German dox or the English? Muppy or Puppy?

N.B. - I'm not fanning the flames of nationalistic warfare here. Inasmuch as the dev and significant portion of the community "build Puppy in English," doesn't it make sense to start there with documentation?

And regarding "personal touch" and "liberties" ...

Is there not going to be standardization with the different language versions of the manual? If not, this project is going to be fraught with failure, IMHO.

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caka

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Wed 20 Aug 2008, 15:57    Post subject:  

oli wrote:
I don't agree with you that the English version is too bad and useless.


Sorry Oli. But I didn't say that the English version is too bad. Shocked I only said that there are some chapters that aren't actualiced.

alienjeff wrote:
Is there not going to be standardization with the different language versions of the manual? If not, this project is going to be fraught with failure, IMHO.


This is my opinion too.

Before Oli coordinated the state of the different versions of the manual, and now I think the person in charge of the English version should advise to the others and try different versions that are suited to the English version.

PS: Oli if you want, in the German version of course you can make changes it deems appropriate, but we should at least coordinate among all.

Regards caka and sorry for my poor english.
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