Direct boot from hard drive?

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Fox7777
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Direct boot from hard drive?

#1 Post by Fox7777 »

We have a 1996 Dell Optiplex GMT 5166 computer that we installed Puppy Linux 1.0.1 on (1.0.2 didn't work on it). We initially had to use a boot floppy to boot the CD for installation but when the hard drive install was finished we still had to save a couple files to a boot disk to start it instead of booting directly from the hard drive which seemed very unusual. Is there a way to install Puppy Linux 1.0.1 so you can boot directly from the hard drive?

Bruce B

Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#2 Post by Bruce B »

Fox7777 wrote:We have a 1996 Dell Optiplex GMT 5166 computer that we installed Puppy Linux 1.0.1 on (1.0.2 didn't work on it). We initially had to use a boot floppy to boot the CD for installation but when the hard drive install was finished we still had to save a couple files to a boot disk to start it instead of booting directly from the hard drive which seemed very unusual. Is there a way to install Puppy Linux 1.0.1 so you can boot directly from the hard drive?
Well yes there is. Lots of ways really. I think GRUB is the best way.

If you have MS-DOS you can use the GRUB for DOS. And keep the MBR as it is.

Or you can install Linux GRUB to the MBR and the other files on a Linux partition.

Which of these two options do you prefer?

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#3 Post by Fox7777 »

We don't have DOS & would like to have everything on one partition. We now have Puppy installed on a partition but have to use the floppy to boot. Is there a way to use Puppy to install Grub on this computer & then perhaps move the files on the floppy to the same partition so that we could turn on the computer and have the Grub menu come up with Puppy on the menu?

Bruce B

#4 Post by Bruce B »

I don't know if you have a Linux partition. If you have a Linux partition maybe Puppy can install GRUB for you.

If you were running 1.0.2 there is a program called grubconfig. It will install GRUB for you. Maybe it is also in 1.0.1 - check and see by typing grubconfig on the command line.

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#5 Post by Fox7777 »

Puppy 1.0.1 is installed on a Linux partition on the hard drive & we currently have to use the boot floppy to boot.
grubconfig didn't work on this Puppy 1.0.1 system. There is apparently no grub or boot files. Also there is no option to setup grub like there apparently is in Puppy 1.0.2.

Could we use PupGet to download grub & set it up? If so, what about the files on the boot floppy? We think the real value of Puppy (or DSL) is the abiity to install on old computers so they are still useful for the average computer user & don't end up in landfills. Considering this, will we be able to install future versions of Puppy on these old computers?

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danleff
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#6 Post by danleff »

What happened that Puppy 1.0.2 would not work on this system?
I love it when a plan comes together

--Hannibal Smith

Bruce B

Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#7 Post by Bruce B »

Fox7777 wrote:Puppy 1.0.1 is installed on a Linux partition on the hard drive & we currently have to use the boot floppy to boot.
grubconfig didn't work on this Puppy 1.0.1 system. There is apparently no grub or boot files. Also there is no option to setup grub like there apparently is in Puppy 1.0.2.

Could we use PupGet to download grub & set it up? If so, what about the files on the boot floppy? We think the real value of Puppy (or DSL) is the abiity to install on old computers so they are still useful for the average computer user & don't end up in landfills. Considering this, will we be able to install future versions of Puppy on these old computers?
My guess and this is only a guess is that maybe Kernel 2.6 needs some extra arguments to boot some of the these old computers. Examples of arguments I'd try:

ide=nodma apm=off acpi=off noapic

But I don't know except this is what I'd try but I don't have the right computer to test with.

------------------

I don't think there is a .PUP GRUB package.

You should be able to download GRUB binary setup from the Intenet. GRUB is GRUB.

Maybe someone else has a better idea.

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#8 Post by Fox7777 »

When we try to boot Puppy 1.0.2 on the above computer with the necessary boot floppy, it downloads a couple files from the CD & gets to the point where the kernel is starting & just sits there with the cursor flashing. We don't see any place to enter the above commands. What is the solution?

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#9 Post by danleff »

I think Bruce may have hit on it, maybe an acpi issue. Bruce, do you know where to add the arguments on the floppy? Can it be done in Tiny?

The new Puppy iso is also finicky about the speed that the iso file is burned at. Older cdrom drives sometimes have trouble reading home made cdr disks, even worse, cdrw disks. I had to burn mine at 1X or 2X speed to get it to work. This is not too much of an issue, as the file is small enough not to take too much time to burn properly.

If you want to see if this is an issue and don't mind burning another cdr disk, try that. If it does not work, you know that the problem is acpi. Then, if someone knows how to add the arguments to the floppy, try acpi=off first. laptops usually need the noalpic option.
I love it when a plan comes together

--Hannibal Smith

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard

#10 Post by Fox7777 »

We tried writing the CD at 2X speed with but that didn't make any difference. The CD writer has performed very well so it would be a surprise if that was the problem. We also tried inserting acpi=off in autoexec.bat & config.sys on the floppy not knowing what we were doing but that didn't make any difference either. We still need a solution.

Bruce B

Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#11 Post by Bruce B »

Fox7777 wrote:When we try to boot Puppy 1.0.2 on the above computer with the necessary boot floppy, it downloads a couple files from the CD & gets to the point where the kernel is starting & just sits there with the cursor flashing. We don't see any place to enter the above commands. What is the solution?
I don't know how change the command line arguments when booting Puppy CD. I don't think there is a way, but maybe there is. Presuming there is not a way to enter the arguments I'd go about it this way:

You can boot with 1.0.1 correct?

You have a Linux partition or FAT32 partition with free space?

If true do like this:

1) boot with 1.0.1 and copy some files from the 1.0.2 CD-ROM disk to the hard disk at /

* image.gz
* vmlinuz
* usr_cram.fs

2) insert your MS-DOS GRUB boot floppy with the editable menu.lst and add the arguments I suggested to the end of the kernel command line.

Small problem here: You don't have an MS-DOS GRUB boot floppy disk. I'll create one and post it NOT here but in the HOW-TO section.

The idea I have is to make a .zip package with GRUB and a menu system and a freeware editor. The user will only have to copy all the files to an already prepared MS-DOS boot disk and bingo - you have a complete GRUB system with options to boot Puppy on what ever install type or partition.

In the meantime see if you can get an MS-DOS boot disk ready and I'll do my part and put the GRUB package together. Check the HOW TO section of the forum tomorrow.

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard drive? (solved)

#12 Post by Fox7777 »

We copied the 3 files by opening up two rox windows & dragging from the Puppy 1.0.2 cdrom to /(Thumbs). Hopefully that is OK.

Update: The key is installing Grub to the master boot record in these older computers. Problem solved.
Last edited by Fox7777 on Sun 02 Oct 2005, 04:23, edited 1 time in total.

PeterSieg
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grubhd.zip

#13 Post by PeterSieg »

Hi Fox7777.

search this forum for grubhd.zip.
get it to /root.
unzip it there. Don't delete the zip!
run the install-grubhd.sh script.

There are 2 scripts. One for type 2 install, one for type 1 install.
Both will install grub as boor manager on hdd. The script assumes
that Puppy is the only OS on the hard disk (But can handle multiple
instances of Puppy :)!

This works only with 1.0.1!
In 1.0.2 Barry has incorporated this with
grubconfig.

PS
Have fun :)

Bruce B

#14 Post by Bruce B »

I didn't know about the grubhd.zip package someone put together. That would install grub on the hard disk.

I just put a package together which will install a complete grub boot manager on the floppy disk. You can find it in the How To section.

Now you have a range of options!

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babbs
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#15 Post by babbs »

If you can still boot from the CD, you might want to try the 1.0.2-Opera version since it has a startup menu were you can boot without acpi to see if that is the issue between 1.0.1 and 1.0.2. In the end, that may be the easiest way to install grub.

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#16 Post by Fox7777 »

We have the following with 1 being the most preferred:

1. Modify the boot floppy so that we can boot Puppy 1.0.2 on this older computer. We don't know where to put acpi=off (or ide=nodma apm=off noapic) in the boot floppy. We tried putting acpi=off in autoexec.bat & config.sys but it didn't seem to work How do we do this & exactly where do we put it?

2. Install grubhd.zip on our existing Puppy system where we had to install Puppy 1.0.1 on the partition & then copied image.gz, vmlinuz & usr_cram.fs from the Puppy 1.0.2 CD into the partition. Apparently we should do the install-hdgrub.sh option but despite trying many different commands as root, we haven't found the right one. In this scenario we need to have the grub menu come up when we boot the computer without having to use a boot floppy. What do we enter in the command line?

3. Create the grub floppy with grubfd01.zip. We haven't tried this yet but will keep it in mind. Thanks

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gubhd.zip

#17 Post by PeterSieg »

Hi Fox7777.

I had the need for the same requirement. If you get 1.0.2 to work.. fine.
If you must stick with 1.0.1.. the grubhd.zip is for you!

Option 1 install was done by me on request be a Puppy user (with grub..).
I personally think, a type 2 install is more towards a real linux installation..

What you need to do first is make a suitable partition on your hdd.
Size min. 200MB (but more doens't harm :) ) Use cfdisk for that..
Then start the ./install-grubhd.sh.
Here you must enter the above created partition!
The partition must not be already in use by a bootet live Puppy!!!!
If you use the strait 1.0.1 from Barry, Puppy is probably creating a pup001 file
on the first partition it founds. I have used the JohnM 50m Version, because it
has a boot menu option to NOT touch any hdd!
So either make 2 partition in the first run (ex. hda1 and hda2) and let Puppy create
the pup001 file in hda1, so you can install type 2 in hda2...
Or make sure that Puppy is not able to find any partition to use for pup001...

The created boot menu has all possibilities I have build in (hda1-4; hdb1-4).
Just the default entry will be set to the last installation.
That is compatible with type 1 and type 2 install!
So you can have multiple installations of Puppy - even mixed type 1 and/or type 2.

PS
Have fun :)

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Fox7777
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Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#18 Post by Fox7777 »

Dang, we went through the upgrade option on ./install-hdgrub.sh (note that it is not grubhd.sh) & now there is still no grub menu at boot. When we use the usual Puppy HD boot CD, we get a kernel panic message. Not to worry- we can easily reinstall Puppy 1.0.1 but what we really want to do is to be able to boot the Puppy 1.0.2 live CD on this computer & install to the hard drive with that. We tried to boot the suggested Opera Custom CD on this computer but it still stops at the kernel & doesn't give us a chance to select the no acpi option.

What we really need is a modification to the live boot floppy that will boot the live Puppy Linux 1.0.2 CD on these older computers.

Guest

Re: Direct boot from hard drive?

#19 Post by Guest »

We have tried a couple more installs from the live CD using ./install-hdgrub.sh & although it goes through all the motions we don't see the success message at the end. On reboot we get Grub error 17. We really need future Puppy releases adapted for these older computers.

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#20 Post by danleff »

A grub error 17 usually means that Grub can't ID the partition type. What filesystem type is the partition are you trying to install to or boot to?
I love it when a plan comes together

--Hannibal Smith

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