PB-dict-dictionary - now with 76 databases (translation etc)

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otropogo

#21 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:
What about Pdict? Is there any reason to keep its tab or is PBDict2 performing all of Pdict's functions?
No need to keep it.
PBDict2 includes everything from the older versions.
Thanks Mark.

BTW - while looking through the list of online databases, I couldn't find a single one that supports Chinese. This strikes me as a big flaw in a world dictionary, since one quarter of the world's people use this language.

I realize that representing Chinese with Western fonts and keyboards presents special problems, but Japanese has a similar problem in that it relies on some 2,000 Chinese characters for everyday usage. And yet there's a German to Japanese dictionary in the lineup.

Chinese can be represented phonetically using the pinyin system, the only additional requirement being to represent the five Mandarin tones in order to reduce the number of homophones. This is usually done by using numbers to represent the tones - (ie. wo3men2 chi5fan4 hao3ma5). It's ugly and cumbersome, but far better than nothing.

Is anyone working on this?

I've tried to get Chinese character support in Puppy 4.0 by running the Chinesesupport.pet and installing the wqy bitmap fonts following the simple instructions from CECC. But I still can't display the text on his Chinese Pet forum, and my report by PM of this failure has gone unanswered. So I'm completely frustrated in my attempts to access Chinese character text with Puppy_Seamonkey.

I'm also wondering whether there are any European online dictionary database files available for download so that Pbdict2 can access them offline? I'm particularly interested in French, German, Portuguese, Russian, and Spanish.

I believe you mentioned Babylon dictionaries when I asked about this initially....

Do you know of any URLs where such files can be downloaded?

PS> I tried just now to enter a single Russian word from the eng-rus freedict into pb2dict, and after following all the syntax requirements, I got the following error message when attempting to save the file:

"can't convert codeset to ISO-8859-1"

Very frustrating!

But then, even if it worked, this would never be a viable way of building a personal dictionary. In running this little test, I looked up the words, "eat food dinner lunch breakfast supper" by turns. And the last one of the six was the only one for which the eng-rus Freedict database had an entry! Not much to work with...

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#22 Post by MU »

The "help" buttons explains, how to install offline dictionaries.
get them here:
http://www.dict.org/links.html
PS> I tried just now to enter a single Russian word from the eng-rus freedict into pb2dict, and after following all the syntax requirements, I got the following error message when attempting to save the file:

"can't convert codeset to ISO-8859-1"
What word exactly?
I use the dictionary very seldom, so I depend on detailed descriptions to be able to reproduce problems.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

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#23 Post by MU »

To save russian, use "save as", then in the combobox use "utf-8" as charset.
Simply confirm to overwrite the existing document.
Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

otropogo

#24 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:The "help" buttons explains, how to install offline dictionaries.
get them here:
http://www.dict.org/links.html
Thanks, have got them now (what little there is to get). And will try to install them later.

Unfortunately, the only languages with substantial bidirectional support for English are Croatian and Hungarian. Eng-rus has 1693 headwords and hasn't been modified since Nov. 2005, jap-deu has 441 headwords, and was last modified the day after the russian list.
otropogo wrote:PS> I tried just now to enter a single Russian word from the eng-rus freedict into pb2dict, and after following all the syntax requirements, I got the following error message when attempting to save the file:

"can't convert codeset to ISO-8859-1"
MU wrote:What word exactly?
I use the dictionary very seldom, so I depend on detailed descriptions to be able to reproduce problems.
otropogo wrote:I looked up the words, "eat food dinner lunch breakfast supper" by turns. And the last one of the six was the only one for which the eng-rus Freedict database had an entry!
Sorry Mark. I should have been clearer - It was "supper".

Another question that comes to mind. If I wanted to enter a Russian word into my eng-ru personal database via the keyboard, does Puppy have a native tool for doing this (ie. input of cyrillic alphabet)?


Have now followed your directions on changing the font, and saved successfully, But I find the directions for manual entry quite confusing.

They seem to be saying to put an asterisk before and after each entry (ie. on the same line as the entry), which doesn't work, when actually, you need to put a dotted line between two asterisks (does it matter how many dots?) on the lines preceding and following the entry.

One feature of pbdict2 I find especially annoying is the need to click on the "dict" tab to get the translation. It really causes a lot of extra mousing and delay. Would it be possible to implement the use of the Enter/CR key instead?

In fact, since pbdict2 seems only to look up the first word entered and ignores everything after a space (try entering "heavy" and "heavy metal" in an "all online databases" search and you'll see the results are the same), why not enable the space bar to finalize the input and start the search?

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#25 Post by MU »

One feature of pbdict2 I find especially annoying is the need to click on the "dict" tab to get the translation. It really causes a lot of extra mousing and delay. Would it be possible to implement the use of the Enter/CR key instead?
ok, I updated PBDict2, now you can press enter.
In fact, since pbdict2 seems only to look up the first word entered and ignores everything after a space (try entering "heavy" and "heavy metal" in an "all online databases" search and you'll see the results are the same), why not enable the space bar to finalize the input and start the search?
I get translations for both words.
Try it with "das Auto" (german for the car), that gives a result easier to examine.
They seem to be saying to put an asterisk before and after each entry (ie. on the same line as the entry), which doesn't work, when actually, you need to put a dotted line between two asterisks (does it matter how many dots?) on the lines preceding and following the entry.
I don't understand this.
What do you try to enter?
PBDict2 uses this syntax.
wordTABexplanation-line1\nline2
Like:

Code: Select all

Tisch	table
So you enter the word, hit the TAB key, then enter the translation.
If the transltion has several lines, you type \n as linefeed.
Another question that comes to mind. If I wanted to enter a Russian word into my eng-ru personal database via the keyboard, does Puppy have a native tool for doing this (ie. input of cyrillic alphabet)?
I think for UTF charsets like russian or vietnamese you need "scim".
Please search for it with: http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html
Though some apps like leafpad also have a native input method: right click the text - "input methods".
Here you can choose kyrillic, but not every Puppy might support it.
In Muppy0084 based on Puppy3, I can type kyrillic then.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

otropogo

#26 Post by otropogo »

One more problem:

After downloading several freedict packages, I tried to follow the instructions in the PBdict2 Help file to install them:
Extract deu-eng.tar.gz in the folder:

/usr/share/dictd/

After restarting PBDict, you can select it.

----------------------------
The example-phrase creates sentences from the FIRST word only!

----------------------------
Personal dictionaries:
A new one is created automatically, if you click on
"edit personal dictionary"
It will have the same category as the dictionary you selected above.

To create a completely new category like "eng-fra_jura", you must
create a copy with your filemanager in ~/my-dictionarys.
I unarchived the contents of the gz packets to /usr/share/dictd and restarted PBdict, as instructed,


The first problem is that none of the new dictionaries (for example deu-eng)appear in the personal list, and I don't know how to make them appear.

The second problem is that even those dictionaries that do appear in the list of personal dictionaries, such as eng-deu, (because they were there before) don't respond to any searches. I've checked in eng-deu, for instance, by looking for a listed word in the index file, and then entering it in the pbdict search window. There's no output.

Of course I've tried clicking on "edit personal dictionary', as it says above, but what I'm supposed to do after that, I have no idea....

Ironically, the ONLY personal dictionary that works is the one containing my solitary Russian translation of "supper" and which I "saved as" eng-rus1 (but WITHOUT first creating the file in ~/my-dictionarys). And even more strangely, there's no sign of it in the /usr/share/dictd folder. In fact, the ONLY places on the system where the only working personal dictionary exists is in /root/my-dictionarys and /intird/pup_rw/my-dictionarys

It seems to me there's something very wrong with the PBdict help file installation instructions.

otropogo

#27 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:
ok, I updated PBDict2, now you can press enter.
Thanks, that's much better!

Now if I can only figure out how to get my offline personal dictionaries installed..
In fact, since pbdict2 seems only to look up the first word entered and ignores everything after a space (try entering "heavy" and "heavy metal" in an "all online databases" search and you'll see the results are the same), why not enable the space bar to finalize the input and start the search?
MU wrote:I get translations for both words.
Try it with "das Auto" (german for the car), that gives a result easier to examine.
You're right. Maybe my example of "heavy metal" was just a fluke.

They seem to be saying to put an asterisk before and after each entry (ie. on the same line as the entry), which doesn't work, when actually, you need to put a dotted line between two asterisks (does it matter how many dots?) on the lines preceding and following the entry.
MU wrote:I don't understand this.
What do you try to enter?
PBDict2 uses this syntax.
wordTABexplanation-line1\nline2
Like:

Code: Select all

Tisch	table
So you enter the word, hit the TAB key, then enter the translation.
If the transltion has several lines, you type \n as linefeed.
Interesting. I've never seen these instructions before. What I was going by is the text that appears when I click on the "edit personal dictionary" tab at the bottom of the pbdict2 window.
# personal dictionary database for PBDict
# each record must be between "*----------*"
# the indexword must be followed by ":#:"
# then you can add several lines of text, that will be presented as translation.

*----------*
word :#: translation
*----------*
anotherword :#: anothertranslation
line two.
*----------*
Where do I find the syntax guide you've just described?

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#28 Post by MU »

*----------*
That was one of the first releases, this syntax is no longer valid!
I had to modify it to the new syntax described above for compatibility with stardict. Sorry.
The first problem is that none of the new dictionaries (for example deu-eng)appear in the personal list, ...
The second problem is that even those dictionaries that do appear in the list of personal dictionaries, such as eng-deu, (because they were there before) don't respond to any searchespear.
Ok, this is a new problem.
It took me a moment, to sort that out.
My old example dictionaries like spanish were not UTF8, but your russian is.
The dictd server must be started different, if a UTF8 dictionary is installed, or it refuses to work.
So you had no result at all.
I modified it, please download and install again.

BUT:
You can use such UTF8 dictionaries offline only, if you have .utf8 support in your Puppy.
Please look up in your filemanager, if the folder /usr/lib/locale/ has a folder like en_US.utf8.
Old versions of Puppy did not have it, even the "chooselocale" language installation in the menu did not offer them.
In my puplet "Muppy", I added them from Slackware-Linux.
This works with Puppy 3.

If you use Puppy 4, then I don't know, if they can be added.
So please tell me, what Puppy you use, and if you find such .utf8 folders.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

otropogo

#29 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:...
...
My old example dictionaries like spanish were not UTF8, but your russian is.
The dictd server must be started different, if a UTF8 dictionary is installed, or it refuses to work.
So you had no result at all.
I modified it, please download and install again.
Ok. I downloaded and installed the revised version, and got this error message when I started it in offline mode:
ERROR: PBDict2 could find no "utf8" encoding on your system.
Please install en_US.utf8 or a utf8 encoding for your primary language.
Without it, PBDict2 will not work, if you install a UTF8 dictionary like russian or hindi.
MU wrote:BUT:
You can use such UTF8 dictionaries offline only, if you have .utf8 support in your Puppy.
Please look up in your filemanager, if the folder /usr/lib/locale/ has a folder like en_US.utf8.
Old versions of Puppy did not have it, even the "chooselocale" language installation in the menu did not offer them.
In my puplet "Muppy", I added them from Slackware-Linux.
This works with Puppy 3.

f you use Puppy 4, then I don't know, if they can be added.
So please tell me, what Puppy you use, and if you find such .utf8 folders.
I don't have en_US.utf8 in /usr/lib/locale, but I do have zh_CN.utf8, which I assume is for Chinese character support. So why won't PBdict start in offline mode?


I''m running Puppy 4.0 kernel 2.6.21 on this system. But I also have a laptop which is running 3.01 Retro Kernel 2.6.18. I haven't tried installing stardict or pbdict2 to the laptop yet, but that's where I'm going to need them, especially for creating an enhanced eng-fra, fra-eng dictionary for legal terms.

Russian is not really a big deal, especially since the existing dict database is so small, it's hardly worth the bother. What I'd really like to have is Chinese Character support.

So how do I remove the Russian utf8 problem now?

PS. after I close the error message window, PBDict offline opens a window anyway, despite the warning. But I still can't get any search results except for your eng-deu.example

And when I try to open the other downloaded dictionaries with the editor to look at them, there's nothing except the superseded syntax guide. They're all sitting in the wrong directory doing nothing, but I don't know how to fix it.

I tried copying the contents of the eng-rus1 file and the eng-rus index files i downloaded with Geany (select all, copy) and pasting them into the corresponding text files in /usr/share/locale. But that didn't work. Now I can't even get a response when I enter "supper" in the search window....

So I'm afraid I'll just mess things up more.
I

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#30 Post by MU »

puh, that is a special case...

ok, aded a workaround for you.

Please download and install again.

then create this textfile:
/root/pbdict2utf8.txt

It must have this line:

Code: Select all

zh_CN.utf8
now the dictd server will be forced, to use your chinese UTF8.

I think to input chinese characters, you need scim-bridge.
See the localization forum:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=16

I think this is not trivial, the threads dealing with it, are very long :shock:

For Puppy 3, you can extract the dotpup that I attach in /usr/lib/locale/.
It has then en_US.utf8.

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

otropogo

#31 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:...
Please download and install again.

then create this textfile:
./root/pbdict2utf8.txt

It must have this line:

Code: Select all

zh_CN.utf8


now the dictd server will be forced, to use your chinese UTF8.
Great! Thanks.

Now I can search all the downloaded personal dictionaries, including eng-rus and deu-jap, offline, but only one at a time.

For some reason when I search with "Personal:All" the only words I can find are those in your deu-eng and eng-deu example files. Why is that?

MU wrote:I think to input chinese characters, you need scim-bridge.
See the localization forum:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=16

I think this is not trivial, the threads dealing with it, are very long :shock:
Thanks for the warning. I don't think I'll even go there...

I'd be happy just to be able to display Chinese characters properly in a browser when I visit Chinese websites. But it looks like that's also beyond Puppy's abilities.
MU wrote:For Puppy 3, you can extract the dotpup that I attach in /usr/lib/locale/.
It has then en_US.utf8.

Mark
Thanks. Will try to install it together with the latest version of pbdict on the laptop within the next week or so. I still haven't figured out how to use Stardict yet. For instance, can stardict translations be imported into pbdict personal dictionaries?.


I'm also curious - why does Puppy 4.0 include zh_CN.utf8 when there are no Chinese freedict dictionaries for it to display, and the browser isn't capable of displaying Chinese either?

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#32 Post by MU »

You must use
"All databases".

If you use:
Personal:All, then only the ones you created yourself are searched (those in /root).

If you use: "All databases", then the personal AND those downloaded to /usr/share are searched.
I still haven't figured out how to use Stardict yet. For instance, can stardict translations be imported into pbdict personal dictionaries?.
Yes, I think you did that already?
Ah no, that was Paulski, on the first page.

The help button explains, what to do.
I'd be happy just to be able to display Chinese characters properly in a browser when I visit Chinese websites. But it looks like that's also beyond Puppy's abilities.
I think you just need a chinese font.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26978

Glad it works now.
Keep me informed about your experiences, please.
As I said, I don't use it myself, so I will add enhancements only on demand.
The more details are provided (as in the last messages), the easier it is for me, to reproduce what you want :)

Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

otropogo

#33 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:You must use
"All databases".

If you use:
Personal:All, then only the ones you created yourself are searched (those in /root).

If you use: "All databases", then the personal AND those downloaded to /usr/share are searched.
OK.





That leaves three problems:

1.How do I convert or import downloaded dictionaries to personal ones so that I can edit them by adding more words? I've tried simply copying and pasting the contents and that doesn't work.


2. I also need some way to limit the search to groups of dictionaries as the situation requires. For instance, I may want to search fra-deu, fra-eng, and fra-spa in some instances, and deu-eng, deu-fra in others.

3. It would be also be preferable, so long as I have to use the "all databases" setting, for this be be the default setting when I open pbdict, instead of having to open the drop down menu and select it from the middle of the list every time. Even better would be a preferences option to allow the user to rearrange the order of the dictionaries in the list, the way stardict does. Maybe the same input screen could be used to disable or enable any group of dictionaries for that session.

I'd be happy just to be able to display Chinese characters properly in a browser when I visit Chinese websites. But it looks like that's also beyond Puppy's abilities.
MU wrote:I think you just need a chinese font.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26978
I wish. I've installed a number of fonts suggested by various people, and some didn't work at all, others worked only partly, and then stopped working after I installed Bluefish.

Glad it works now.
Keep me informed about your experiences, please.
Don't worry. I need to get this personal dictionary thing on the road soon. And unless I want to type everything in letter by letter, I have to figure out a way to get a compatible glossary for english-french legal terms that I can copy and paste into the personal files.

So you can be sure I'll be calling you for help again.

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#34 Post by MU »

1.How do I convert or import downloaded dictionaries to personal ones so that I can edit them by adding more words? I've tried simply copying and pasting the contents and that doesn't work.
Conversion only works with stardict dictionaries, as explained in the help.
But that is just intended to import them, not to edit them.

I'd suggest to seperate your personal entries from the downloaded ones.
Simply create a new personal textfile that uses the same syntax as the other ones.
Like eng-fra2.

Concerning the search in only some dictionaries:
At moment, I have no time to add this, but II'll add it to my todo list.
Mark
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=173456#173456]my recommended links[/url]

otropogo

#35 Post by otropogo »

MU wrote:
I'd be happy just to be able to display Chinese characters properly in a browser....
I think you just need a chinese font.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26978
Thanks Mark. You finally found me a method that works. The only caveat being that for Puppy 4.0 the fonts go into

Code: Select all

/usr/lib/x11/x11/fonts/misc
Two unexpected benefits of this exercise are that I've learned that:

1. the Chinesesupport.pet is NOT required to display Chinese fonts in Seamonkey, the font installation method described in the URL above is all you need. and,


2. the Chinesesupport.pet DOES perform a vital function. After I uninstalled it with PETget, I found that I could no longer access the downloaded freedict dictionaries in PBdict's offline mode, only the personal dictionaries were available in the drop-down menu. This despite the fact that zh_CN.utf8 had not been removed by uninstalling the pet.

When I reinstalled Chinesesupport.pet, the downloaded freedict dictionaries reappeared in PBdict's offline menu.

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