Puppy Linux community repo is active on sourceforge

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Lobster · #21 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 08 Sep 2008, 07:35

That is the part that will become hairy

HairyWill is going to become part of the matrix, just for Puppy?

a worthy sacrifice

tombh · #22 Post by **tombh** » Mon 08 Sep 2008, 09:01

*lol* great pun work there Lobster!

Yes, if there's anything I can do to help at puppylinux.org with GIT/SVN I'm happy to oblige, there's loads of space, and bandwidth seems to be holding out well too, though yes it is in America.

So what's being suggested is that Puppy 'lives' on a GIT/SVN server? I guess that makes sense if Barry is no longer the custodian. Then live, up to the minute, snapshots can be accessed by all (who have access), any time from anywhere. But it will live as code, not binary? Will it have its own Makefiles!?

It struck me as odd having an entire operating system on GIT/SVN, "that's a bit much for a versioning system to handle, isn't it?" I thought, but then thinking about it, Puppy is actually smaller than a lot of applications!

HairyWill · #23 Post by **HairyWill** » Mon 08 Sep 2008, 09:11

Agent Smith wrote:Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program.

thorny isses here indeed.
How do other large distributed projects manage the trust issue?
How do I get commit access to mozilla or the kernel?
Here is a post from Linus discussing distributed development.

The release repository could be different to the development repository
this means that the development repository can be fairly relaxed about what is allowed to happen in development.

Migration from development to release decided by comittee vote or by single 'release engineer' these could have absolute power or be elected/rotated(this mitigates dependency on a few individuals on a regular basis.

Dev committee could have power to appoint/revoke leader, appoint new members, kick members.

New members coud be appointed after submitting several patches and require sponsorship by an existing committee member.

How does the committee start?
Barry appoints a single person.
Barry appoints a group.
Anyone that wants in (I think this is undesireable)

What is the minimum compentency required for membership.
There appears some tension between those that classify themselves as devs and not as to whether only devs decide on what gets released. Should the code monkeys / art team / hardware gurus rule?

Are the people that want power or responsibilty the best ones for the jo?
Do the people that can make puppy work want to work in this setup at all?
How many people are there that are capable of rebuilding puppy from scratch and I don't just mean building the unleashed tree (I haven't got that far yet; I've never really felt the need)

My understanding was that complicated build systems pulled souce in from a number of different repositories. For example running
svn checkout on pjsip pulls down the tagged release version from the portaudio subverson tree as well. I believe ths means that pjsip can upgrade the version of portaudio used simply by changing a tag in the pjsip repository.

more questions needed....

Lobster · #24 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 08 Sep 2008, 12:12

The community of script monkeys (and general purpose monkeys)
already exists:

http://puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old ... -community

People work individually or in a small group, communicating in a variety of ways

We are pretty wide rather than centralised. Makes us adaptable and flexible . . .
So the question is how we improve what we have?

#25 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 05:56

But it will live as code, not binary? Will it have its own Makefiles!?

Well, what I was talking about would just be the Unleashed tree, so just binaries and scripts. Basically, it's what you get if you take every PetGet package in Barry's official repo, including the ones that make up Puppy itself, and extract them all to their own directories. Plus an extra directory with the scripts used to put them all together into Puppy.

A lot of manual work goes on at this level, that's why I think it needs to be in SVN/GIT.

I haven't used T2 yet, so I don't know what we'd need to do to support that. From what I understand it doesn't exactly spit out material directly usable in Puppy. You have to go through and manually cull out a lot of the fluff to get things stripped down as much as we use. Compiling everything from scratch is something that wouldn't be done nearly as often either.

T2 is used for the non-puppy-specific sources. Stuff like GTK, Xorg, etc. I think that the Puppy-specific projects that need compiling might be best to keep on SourceForge, and then incorporate specific binary releases of those into the overall unleashed tree SVN, along with any tweaks needed to make it play nicely (which could be submitted back to the developers of that app at SF in case they want to modify their "vanilla" release to have them in by default).

So with this model, whenever Zigbert gets around to creating Pkitchensink, he'd have the source version at SF. Every so often he'd have something he wants to release as a package, so he'd compile it and make a .pet, and also host that on SF. The people maintaining Puppy itself would then see the new version and decide they want it, so they'd download the most recent .pet, extract it, import it into the SVN, make any tweaks they need to make, and carry on. If they do anything important they may want to let Zigbert know.

Notes on which version of Pkitchensink was used would need to be included in the comment for that import. Also, doing the little tweaks needed is important to do only after importing it into the repo. That way it's imported in the initial vanilla state, and all modifications are logged by SVN. So we know exactly what has changed. Also, if we wind up in a situation where we need to produce all the changes we've made (somebody questions our GPL-ness or whatever), it could be done by just having SVN output a log (something like svn log <path>/Pkitchensink I believe).

I tried reading up on our embargo, but it wasn't clear to me whether this sort of endeavor would be covered by it. SourceForge involves optional money (donations, hiring people, etc.) and in some cases is used by actual companies. So they fall under it. But I don't know if we'd technically be breaking any kind of laws by letting Cubans or people in "terrorist countries" participate in Puppy, using a US hosted server. It would be really annoying if Uncle Sam came along and confiscated our server while we're in the middle of something, and even more so if he tried fining all the US members of the committee or whatever.

I'm probably just being paranoid. But things like the local laws of wherever the server is located are definitely something to consider. Also the laws of wherever the organization is based. Just in case somebody tries to raise a stink about something.

Here is a post from Linus discussing distributed development.

Thanks, that helped somewhat. I'll need to actually install Git and poke around a bit before I understand it fully. I do think that if we went with Git, the structure I've been describing would need to be modified somewhat.

What he said about private branches sounds like one of the bigger pros for Git. That would make some things much cleaner I think.

Aitch · #26 Post by **Aitch** » Thu 09 Oct 2008, 20:03

Hi guys, is this any use?

http://progetti.arstecnica.it/trac+darcs/

looks cool to me, but what do I know

PS puppyluvr link, requesting terminal/gui downloader

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=33449

Aitch

#27 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 00:15

PS puppyluvr link, requesting terminal/gui downloader

That isn't exactly relevant to this. We're discussing a different sort of "repo". The other sort is a whole 'nother can of worms, one that we'll definitely need to look into again before long, if Puppy is to get much more popular. Meanwhile Petch is a half-way answer.

Hi guys, is this any use?

http://progetti.arstecnica.it/trac+darcs/

For the Unleashed-reqo, possibly. The thing you linked to, specifically, is a plugin to use Trac with a different version management software than either SVN or GIT. Trac itself seems to be generally for SVN. Whatever we wind up going with, we'll definitely want a good web-based frontend. It makes it easier for somebody to do a quick look at what's going on, or to reference a file in Puppy when not actually running Puppy, among other things.

I don't think it's relevant to the SourceForge SVN though, since I doubt we could install it there, and anyways SF does have a web interface already.

Somewhat back on topic (since the Unleashed-repo is technically off topic), I've started work on a volume setting program, mainly as a way to practice my GTK programming which I've almost never done. But I have also never liked any gui volume mixer that Puppy has used. Xtmix came closest. The only thing really worth using right now is alsamixer, which I do like.

Well, that part is mostly off topic. The on topic part follows:
I'm using the SourceForge SVN for this, and currently it holds my non-functional work-so-far. The functions for setting and reading volume are in, but not bound to anything because I haven't finished the widget yet. Have to write my own, since all of the default ones are worthless when it comes to volume setting. Sure, they seem like they'd work, and do, but are completely non-ergonomic and disgusting.

Besides which, they lack the retro feel I desire.

On cb88's request, I wrote a short guide to using it (the SourceForge SVN repo, that is). Also, I made and uploaded a .pet of SVN, because the one included in Puppy's devx file doesn't support SSL properly, which SourceForge requires. I haven't tried Puppy 4.1 yet, so maybe that one's does, I dunno.
http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/how-tos/ ... rsionguide

I also noticed that there are already some pages in there from the old wiki about an SVN repo that doesn't seem to be around anymore. Maybe those have info that could help people too.

cb88 · #28 Post by **cb88** » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 20:49

thanks pizzasgood...

didn't know cuba was blocked ....it is a tough issue there..

on what we should be uploading... drivers source etc... should just be uploaded to a regular server not a version control system

the only thing that should be in our version control system is the source for the unleashed system T2 profile and patches (for any external source... if we do you T2 we should actually submit these to their SVN)

and also any puppy related scripts

putting ALL the source in a version control system would be a massive pain and that would really be overkill

also I am pretty sure that we can actually use trac.... we would just need to install it on the source forge host... which i think you have access to pissazgood but i not 100% it is a standard ssh login we can set up a small webpage there as well

cb88 · #29 Post by **cb88** » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 21:14

when T2 8.0 comes out... I will upload the T2 base to the SVN so we can work on it and keep it up to date

I was able to install cygwin here at home yesterday so i was able to get the svn downloaded so i can get a little bit done on that front I still have practically no free time though

raffy · #30 Post by **raffy** » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 22:13

Pizzasgood wrote:On cb88's request, I wrote a short guide to using it (the SourceForge SVN repo, that is). Also, I made and uploaded a .pet of SVN, because the one included in Puppy's devx file doesn't support SSL properly, which SourceForge requires. I haven't tried Puppy 4.1 yet, so maybe that one's does, I dunno.
http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/how-tos/ ... rsionguide

Thanks for the SVN guide (specific to Puppy Linux and sourceforge).

The old SVN page in the wiki refers to rarsa's initiative. We are of course continuing with SVN but now at sourceforge. (Link is given here to help new readers.)

#31 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 02:25

Oh yeah, I forgot that SF also lets you set up a webpage. So maybe Trac would work.

re. the ssh, I haven't played with that part yet. Will definitely look into it when I get a chance.

HairyWill · #32 Post by **HairyWill** » Wed 05 Nov 2008, 10:13

please can you add my sourceforge account
hairywill

Sage · #33 Post by **Sage** » Wed 05 Nov 2008, 11:39

Cubans aren't allowed to develop using SourceForge due to my nation's idiotic laws

"All things must change."
Congrats. to the good citizens who voted in a new era.

cb88 · #34 Post by **cb88** » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 06:32

yah socialism!!!! ... not

we block the cubans because THIER government is bad stop getting yourself confused

#35 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 07:03

Exactly. Because our government doesn't like their's, we don't allow them to tap our handy nearby internet. Which means they have to get it through slower methods. Which just gives their government more reason to limit their public's internet access, in the name of keeping their limited service from becoming clogged.

Anything short of completely cutting them off from the outside world will mainly impact the general public, not the higher-ups. What do they care if stuff costs a little more? No skin off their backs. The only real impact is to turn the public against them to get the embargo lifted, which can easily backfire and result in nothing but animosity.

You got a problem with a dude, you work it out with that dude (through words, fists, janken, pata, whatever). You don't go after the dude's family. Not unless you are a dastardly honorless sort of fellow.

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Puppy Linux community repo is active on sourceforge

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