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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
Which software (cms) should Puppylinux.org use?
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Which software (cms) do you think we should use to manage and maintain puppylinux.org?
raffy's one
50%
 50%  [ 2 ]
CMSimple
25%
 25%  [ 1 ]
Php-fusion
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Others (please specify in your post)
25%
 25%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 4

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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sat 12 Nov 2005, 18:21    Post subject:  Which software (cms) should Puppylinux.org use?  

After much testing I guess it's time for us to decide Smile

Raffy's one
Actually I'm not sure it's intended for the 'member's pages' or for the front page. And I don't know much about it (raffy seems to be recommending it highly thou, both frame and non-frame version). Maybe he can tell us more (name, homepage, forum, docs..?). Anyway I'm including it here. Demo

CMSimple
Demo, password: fans
Homepage | Features | Support forum | Addons/Plugins | Templates
From the feedback in other posts it seems to me that people is quite happy with this one Smile Extra info: both the login and settings links can be hidden for better security; it also has multi-lingual support.

Php-fusion
Homepage | Demo | Support forum | Mods | Themes
Users login: puppy / puppyfans
Admin login: admin / adminpass

I just know from their homepage that iWare has been acquired by another company and the name is also changed. As things are uncertain we aren't including it as one of our choices Smile

Some questions you may want to consider when choosing a CMS:
Does it offer the features needed (now or later)?
Some of those we may need or have been mentioned in this forum include: wallpaper gallery, newsletter, dotpup repository, search, sitemap, shopping cart, etc. IMO a simple cms should still be comprehensive, just like Puppy Wink
Support?
Documentation?
Addon, Mods...etc?
Themes? How many?
Can a large amount of links/pages be managed easily in an organized way?
Ease of use?
Is the CMS under active development?
Does it match our documentation pages?
Size?
Price?

...and so on.

For more information and the login details of the demo sites please see this post.
For a discussion of color read this.

After deciding which cms to use we can move on to the choosing of themes, banners and logos. I think we have many graphics experts here Very Happy

Last edited by puppian on Sun 13 Nov 2005, 04:07; edited 2 times in total
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sat 12 Nov 2005, 21:31    Post subject: Oh, anyway, thanks!  

Uh-oh, my name suddenly appeared there Embarassed

There are principles in what i've done so far, which i have not had the time to explain, so let me do so now:

1. What a CMS is - When you hear about CMS, it connotes a comprehensive set of tools for Web publishing, with active development and support (and with the author/s requiring you to use their link at the footer Wink ). What I have been doing is getting the simplest features of CMs's and using them in my publishing work. One area where I've done independent work is the use of tiny index.php file to deliver HTML pages - something that approximates the speed of direct serving of HTML. So while you may call it CMS, I tend to call it my "simple set of publishing tools".

2. What users can do with a CMS - In the open-source way, a user doesn't sit and judge a CMS - s/he joins in and helps it acquire the feature s/he wants. The main feature of what I've developed so far is simplicity, both of the page design and of the backend. I've put up the template of the page for comments, but this is something every user can design for him/herself as s/he uses "it". But I've done my best to live with the suggested specifications of Pizzasgood - see this thread.

3. Design for Participation - As I have been designing the pages for Foundation activities, I gave every reader the opportunity to contribute (a participative way to publish pages). Am just finishing the admin control of those user comments/contributions. So what I've done may not be for everybody - but it is supposed to be good for people mobilizing groups for certain tasks or projects, in a participative way.

Allow me to repeat that the page design is a non-issue - every user can design the page the way s/he likes (layout and content are separated, remember?). As to control, the sample page with instructions is there. Control of the MySQL addition (the user feedback) will be finished this week.

After doing these (the PHP and MySQL components) within these two weeks, as I originally scheduled, I could then focus on other Foundation tasks. I will publish a How-To of that "CMS" by the wekend of Nov 25.

(BTW, the National Inventors' Week here has been moved to Nov 17-21.)

Cheers!

PS - The Frames issue is already over - note that the template has no frames.

Last edited by raffy on Sun 13 Nov 2005, 06:27; edited 1 time in total
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klhrevolutionist


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Sat 12 Nov 2005, 22:44    Post subject: anybody  

Well, I think since it is for puppy that puppy's themselves should be first come, first serve. I support raffy. Second choice being phpfusion.
And what is this newsletter you mentioned, give more details as to what the foundation is trying to do in this area.

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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 01:23    Post subject: Re: Oh, anyway, thanks!  

raffy wrote:
What I have been doing is getting the simplest features of CMs's and using them in my publishing work.
As I have mentioned, simple can also be comprehensive with the needed features. Simple doesn't mean rough or not organized. I like simplicity too.

raffy wrote:
2. What users can do with a CMS - In the open-source way, a user doesn't sit and judge a CMS - s/he joins in and helps it acquire the feature s/he wants.
Why not build a good site from the start if it's so easy with the cms mentioned? Why build a lack of features one, and then sit there and wait for others to improve it for you? As a user who first come to your website, all I can use is the comments function, no more. I even can't search the site!

Let me clarify that I have no opposition in using your cms for the member's pages (although CMSimple can also do the job, it's very small and can also be installed in different folders for different users, like what you did with your cms; moreover users can choose the template they like, and there's NO need to write one themselves). Your cms is great for elearning and offering the chance for people to try web-authoring for the first time. However if we are talking about creating a great website for a great distro, I don't think it's enough.

Take a look at the website of the top-5 distros at distrowatch.com:
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/
http://www.mandrivalinux.com/
http://www.suse.com/
http://fedora.redhat.com/
http://www.mepis.org/ (obviously they're using Drupal, another great cms, they haven't changed the default theme much Wink)

We don't have to copy exactly what they did, but we can learn from them. And do better than them.

Quote:
But I've done my best to live with the suggested specifications of Pizzasgood
With the cms I suggested it's easy to choose a template that do so (if you don't like those of course you can write your own, it's just two files, one html and one css, very simple). There are hundreds to choose from.
I haven't seen much interests in creating templates for your 'member pages'.

raffy wrote:
Design for Participation - As I have been designing the pages for Foundation activities, I gave every reader the opportunity to contribute (a participative way to publish pages).
Again, I have NO opposition to your idea of member's pages. Of course I can not "gave every reader the opportunity to contribute" as I don't think I'm that official/authorized.

raffy wrote:
Allow me to repeat that [i]the page design is a non-issue
I don't think that's an issue for the member's pages, but that can be an issue for the front page. But again, my focus is not on page design. My focus is on features.

I don't see any reason why we can't use more than one cms to do the job. One for the 'member's pages' if needed, and one for the other 'stable pages'.

Btw, you still haven't told us what your "simple set of publishing tools" is. Don't even have a name? No homepage, forum, addons etc? Or it's a script that you wrote? Also, does it have the FEATURES that people visiting puppy website would expect to see?

raffy wrote:
After doing these (the PHP and MySQL components)
I don't really understand what you mean by this. Anyway it's not neccessary to do everything from scratch if it's already available there in other cms, unless you want to practice your own script-writing skills.

Please don't take it too personal. I don't care who will be maintaining puppylinux.org. I'm happy if you can (I've also mentioned this before in another thread). All I want is to have a great website that match our great distro Puppy. I think Puppy deserves that, and it deserves to be in the top-ten or even top-five of distrowatch.com!

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Last edited by puppian on Sun 13 Nov 2005, 02:33; edited 2 times in total
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jcagle

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 634

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 01:57    Post subject:  

Has anyone considered phpwcms? I've mentioned it before in another thread.
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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 02:11    Post subject:  

jcagle wrote:
Has anyone considered phpwcms? I've mentioned it before in another thread.

I have but it's quite large in size (almost 8MB uncompressed, while php-fusion is 5MB). It takes much time to upload and I don't want to find out it doesn't install properly after spending much time to upload Smile (cms installation often fail for various reasons...)

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jcagle

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 634

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 02:16    Post subject:  

ah, understandable.

phpwcms, as well as many other content management systems, comes with CPanel on many hosts. It's normally part of the Fantastico scripts. I know I've got it (as well as all of my clients) with my reseller account, so I haven't had to upload it.
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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 03:18    Post subject:  

Btw, if you want user's contribution, php-fusion is your choice.

Users (members) can submit articles, news, links, wallpaper/images, etc and even can send pm (it even comes with a forum, but can be disabled). People can also comment and rate all submission (and that can be disabled too).

User contribution in this way can keep page layout consistent throughout all pages. It also makes contribution very easy.

You can allow people to register. Or you can disable registration, create a few user accounts and give the login info to anyone you want.

Please try it out and see what php-fusion offers.

A new user with more rights (submit articles, submit photos, create categories, validate submissions, etc) has been created to demonstrate the idea. This user has no access to the System admin panel or the User admin panel. It only has access to the Content admin panel.
Login: pup / advancepup

You can create users (admin) with different rights if you login in as Super Administrator:
Admin login: admin / adminpass
Go to User admin panel --> Members to add new member. Go to User admin panel --> Administrators to add a user as admin.

I haven't mentioned much about the ease of User Contribution with php-fusion before because I thought as a distro's website Puppy may not be focusing on that.

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 06:19    Post subject: Features, Fairness, History  

Ah, Puppian, you put my work in the list, so I can't sit still! I have to elaborate on it. BTW, thanks for including my work, so it stood at par with the other mature CMs's - I can't thank you enough for that Wink (So it's me here saying "thank you", rather than raising the issue of fairness as to comparability of my work to mature CMS's.)

I say "mature" because I have already seen CMSimple years back - at the time, its banner had a big picture of a naked lady (lying prone, of course) - that must have speeded up its development Laughing

Now, kidding aside, let me explain the history of my work, at

http://www.ph-islands.net/pupinstall

which, as you will see below, performs well in Yahoo searches



The only limitation of the page there is that it is static, revised by the author and the page is uploaded via FTP. For puppylinux, I changed the page updating/editing to make it browser-based/interactive. There is also simplification of the user feedback system - the voting feature is removed, and the sorting of entries is instead done by date (latest entry goes to top).

Other features will be added, of course, such as the search function. I guess you have some solid ideas about that. (BTW, i recall one winner in egovernance website contests years ago - the winner was a one-click website, meaning, you don't have to search. All the links are there on top and you know quite clearly what you expect when you click on a link.)

As to name, of course I have a name for my work, originally it is "Eminima", but am not mentioning it out of respect of people here, who might misunderstand it as a promotion of a personal project.

But feel free to think of a name, you've been very helpful so far Smile

For now, i can call it "Equality" CMS, as the idea is to put the reader on equal footing with the page author Very Happy

So expect the HOWTO of "Equality" CMS by November 25!
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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 06:33    Post subject:  

oh...we aren't going back to the search engine discussion are we? I thought it's over Smile

well, I just guess you wrote it as you've never mentioned its author...
[. . . . .]
[. . . . .]

raffy wrote:
the issue of fairness as to comparability of my work to mature CMS's.
I didn't intend to compare your work with the other cms. We are comparing them in this thread because you announced in your post that you will be using your cms for puppylinux.org, despite the fact that there are much better options out there,[. . . . .]
[. . . . .]

If you don't like the cms I suggested, there are many others out there. Just choose another, that's fine with me as long as the one chosen is a good. I didn't write any of them Wink

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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 10:27    Post subject:  

raffy wrote:
you put my work in the list

I put it there out of respect, as you said you are using it for puppylinux.org

I think it's the right thing to do to inform everyone ALL the options they have BEFORE a choice is made.

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Artie


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 446
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 10:53    Post subject:  

In my opinion the Puppy information is in a terrible mess, with different sites all over the place. I get totally confused every time I'm searching for something. Use CMsimple or something similar. Use the template for Distrowatch, just change the banner to a picture of Puppy and change the colors a bit. Consolidate every! single piece of information using the same technique they use with boxes on the left and right side of the screen. Let every developer and contributor and fan get access to their own password-protected area where they can write whatever they like like a blog showing up in the middle of the screen. Moderated of course. Make a community on one site. Check out the Opera community and learn.

Artie
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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 14:43    Post subject:  

Very well said Artie Very Happy

Artie wrote:
In my opinion the Puppy information is in a terrible mess, with different sites all over the place.

I think so too.

Artie wrote:
I get totally confused every time I'm searching for something. Use CMsimple or something similar. Use the template for Distrowatch, just change the banner to a picture of Puppy and change the colors a bit. Consolidate every! single piece of information using the same technique they use with boxes on the left and right side of the screen.

That's exactly what I'm doing on the test sites.
php-fusion
CMSimple, pldp
CMSimple | blue theme | green portal theme

Artie wrote:
Let every developer and contributor and fan get access to their own password-protected area where they can write whatever they like like a blog showing up in the middle of the screen. Moderated of course. Make a community on one site. Check out the Opera community and learn.

Php-fusion does all these easily Smile
A user account has been created as an example.
php-fusion | Login: developer1 / puppup
The Developer sections under 'Documentation' and 'Download' are only visible to this user and the other users in the developer group. Other users won't see them. This way each community can have their own place to interact.
CMSimple allows inclusion of external page:
http://stet-vip.net/puppian/cmsimple/?Wiki_News

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
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Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 15:37    Post subject: Attention to Process  

Respectfully, Puppian, may I call your attention to process - you have been given the opportunity to lead the documentation for Puppy, and the directory puppylinux.org/docs to go with it. You can put the CMS to be used in that directory to a vote, and that will be OK.

What you are trying to do now is to raise the issue of CMS even for the Foundation pages, which am trying to develop. What I tried to show you is not a re-discussion of search engine - it is the fact that my initial work has born satisfactory results, and am following-up on the properties of those successful pages as I develop the Foundation pages.

Let me appeal to you now to respect this separation of responsibilities and the individual pursuit of meaningful contribution to Puppy Linux.
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puppian


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 16:07    Post subject: Re: Attention to Process  

Respectfully, raffy, before I started something called PLDP, I don't think there's such a "separation of responsibilities" you mentioned. Also, the reason that I choose to install the docs into a seperate folder has nothing to do with that "separation of responsibilities" either. The test sites for CMS are intended for choosing a CMS for Puppylinux.org, NOT for docs only. I think you know that very well but just ignore it.

As to who is doing what, I haven't given that much thought. What I consider is 'what's the best for puppy'. You can conduct a poll for which cms to use for the docs folder if you want. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I prefer the docs and the front page to use the same cms thou. They aren't unrelated things.

Btw, I'm confused, whether you are the webmaster or the Foundation Chairman (hey where's the "separation of responsibilities"? Wink). A Chairman can develop the Foundation pages without managing any cms. IMO a chairman's job is to give the job to the appropriate person. There're many other Foundation tasks that need the coordination of a chairman. I don't think the chairman should be busy managing a cms (the head of a company would even pay for others to do that job for them). But of course you can if you want, and I have no objection to that. I'm just suggesting which tools are the best to use.

In fact, with all the other cms more than one person can help maintaining the website. Anyone can be made an administrator with the login information (just see the test sites). With the password all members of the docs committee are managing the docs site too. [. . . . .]

Also, choosing a web-authoring tool for our website is NOT your own thing. [. . . . .]

. . . . .
[. . . . .]

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