Puppy 5.0 "New Hope"

[MU]

Someone will.

I doubt this.
We did not even have a simple "deb2pet" converter in the past, though there often were requests concerning the installation of Debian packages.

Modifying a Packagemanager like apt-get really is not trivial.
Amigo indicated some issues, one will encounter, and there are even more.

Someone once got apt-get working as far as I know as a proof of concept, but never released a working package.

When we define goals, we should define goals with a realistic possibilty to be reached.

We have a working slackware based infrastructure.
A reachable goal would be, to use it, to install packages and dependencies.
A second, reachable goal would be, to create a "deb2pet" or "deb2tgz".
This would make it easier, to install debs, that are not available in another package-format.
In a first step, this utility could ignore dependencies.
That would not be too difficult to realize.
Then one might look, to add a dependency resolution.
This could use the utilities mentioned/created by Amigo.

I once had added a dependency check in "PSI".
It included the call, to send me automatically generated packagelists, to create a central dependency database.
I got maybe 10 replies in the first weeks, then no more.
But such a utility could be modified, e.g. to scan libs in a central library description, I think Amigo mentioned this for Slitaz.

Such a description could be generated by a script, that scans all available tgz packages for the included libs.
We would however need a group, that regularily downloads current packages, and updates that description.

Mark

[Béèm]

Yes once we had PSI, the Puppy Software Installer. Thank you Mark.

It had a nice interface
It could do search for packages
It listed the installed packages.
Maybe it could be improved as Mark said by more dependency checking or other features.

So I was quite disappointed it had been dropped in favor of the Puppy Package Manager, which lacks of user friendly features. For me a step backwards.
Not amazing that people come up with a solution like petch.

So I say it again, it's a pity there is no product management type of way of doing things.

And as far as it looks, there will be none in the future either.

[MU]

petch is great, it is a console-utility.
It could be extended by a grafical interface.

My intention was not to suggest PSI.
Just the concept of the dependency-check, petget meanwhile uses one, too.

It runs "ldd" on all newly installed files, and checks, if there are errors.
If yes, it looks up in a "database" (can be a textfile), to what package the missing lib belongs.
This could be done also by a "deb2tgz" utility.

So if you have gtexter.deb, then it finds, that it misses libgtktext.so.2.
Now it would look up this lib in the dependency list.
Here it would find a slackware package "libgtktext", that contains it.
So it could create a slack-required file in the new tgz, that contains this package as required lib.
If you now would install the converted gtexter.tgz, it would install libgtktext.tgz, too.

Mark

[Aitch]

Someone once got apt-get working as far as I know as a proof of concept, but never released a working package.

there's slapt-get.pet

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=21908

and debian puppy

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30136


......and remember guys - Slitaz is still being developed from debian [which draws my attention to Slackware]

Aitch

[MU]

yes aitch, that was what I mentioned, the attempt to run apt-get in Puppy.
An approach, but we never got a working version, or even a testversion.

Hushpuppys last post was in july:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30871

Mark

[Aitch]

Is this any use?

http://www.pokylinux.org/

Aitch

[Aitch]

yes aitch, that was what I mentioned, the attempt to run apt-get in Puppy.
An approach, but we never got a working version, or even a testversion.

so what's this, mark?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=28994

ttuuxxx & amigo seem to have it working

or is there something else?

Aitch

[MU]

no, undeb is very old (and usefull).
But it just extracts a deb, nothing more.
Like unzip.
But a Packagemanager/installer like apt-get is much more complex.

undeb can be the base for extended utilities.
I used it in pb-debianinstaller, and it could be used for a deb2tgz utility.
But some more things are required.
E.g. Puppy does not support, I think it was /etc/libexec.
Here debian stores symbolic links to programs.
I don't exactly remember it, but I had to add a function to deal with that in the pb-debianinstaller.
Other issues are, that older debs have their own menu system, not based on xdg. This also had to be adressed.
Mark

[Aitch]

just found

http://www.mombu.com/gnu_linux/slackwar ... 48533.html

Difference between slapt : swaret : pkgtool?

Hello
I suppose there will always be the hard console camp vs the gooey camp
and hopefully I fall somewhere in between where I attempt to use tools
appropriate to the job. In the case of packages, which I almost never use
directly since I compile from source and have "checkinstall" create a
package. Having been asked "why bother to effectively do both when you
could just do one" this thread seems a good place to answer.

If one installs with "make install" there is no package involved. By
using "checkinstall" which installs from source and then essentially
re-installs as a package, all packaging tools are available for every so
installed application. I've not used swaret but AFAIK it is essentially a
dpkg clone for slack. While debian's dpkg is IMHO vastly superior to RPM
( so swaret might be at least useful in Slack for those unconcerned with
the details of installing applications ) whatever tools you use, pkgtool,
rpm, etc *all* of them can be organized in KDE's KPackage. Here I'll
point out that if all I want to do involves a single package then pkgtool
is just fine, but when someone wishes to deal with many packages at once,
the gooey tool KPackage is very useful, especially to those who prefer GUI
but even to those such as I who use both. In KPackage, one can view what
is installed, what is available ( updated from whatever mirror you like )
search for either installed or newly avilable packages and even see a file
list of all the files and their paths. Because KPackage works with all
package tools it is especially useful to those who run more than one
distro or who may have for example Slack at home and Red Hat, SuSe. or
whatever at work or at a friends. Thus KPackage can bring a consistency to
any linux as well as operate as a "homebase" center when dealing with
large numbers of packages.

So it might be worthwhile for people new to Slack to learn pkgtool while
keeping KPackage open to see the "big picture" and help make sense of
what's really going on, and get a feel for when CLI is sufficient and when
it is best to resort to a GUI tool.

Jimmy

HTH

PS judging from this....

http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthre ... did=142905

apt-get isn't all it's cracked up to be IMHO

Aitch

[changturkey]

So if Puppy 5 can't be Debian based, what about Zenwalk/Arch?

[big_bass]

(I patched and recompiled the slackware kernel )
and now I have puppy mounted and running in slackware 12.1

now puppy runs on a slackware install
now thats a twist

btw thats unipup
running the hardware info tool in puppy (on a slackware machine )
yes its running and no virtual magic either

also has smp support

here is a screen shot
I am having too much fun today

puppy on my slack box slackware 12.1 running the latest unipup that puts an end to package incompatibility
for puppy versions

I also mounted and ran programs from puppy 2.16
I am testing more puppy versions
many programs run


*click on the picture to get a clear view of it

[raffy]

That's excellent! Will be eager to see your how-to.

In my experience, version 3+ runs slowly in Pentium II's. But version 2+ runs well, so am very much interested in your experiments, especially in the use of Slackware packages for Puppy version 2.16.

[raffy]

Barry's recent post has touched on Puppy 5.0: http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00416

Then there is the much-praised Slackware compatibility of 3.x. Well, someone can rebuild 4.1 with the latest Slackware packages if they want. It is a straightforward process, just very time consuming. 3.x is based on Slackware 12 packages, so is getting a bit long in the tooth. If someone wants to rebuild Unleashed 4.1 with the latest Slackware packages, then call it 5.0, why not? Go for it.

I have suggested that big_bass leads the team. Hope you are available, big_bass. This is not a rush project, and you've already moved far ahead.

[MU]

you can download Muppy-build.
It has two subfolders, systemupdate and systemupdate-dev.
They include the extracted and in some cases slightly modified packages from Slackware 12.1 that I used to create the base Muppy.
You would overwrite Puppys files with them, and remove the older ones from Puppy.
These are included:

a52dec-0.7.4-i586-2gsb
__acl-2.2.47_1-i486-1
avidemux2_gtk-2.4.0
avidemux_nls-2.4.0
cairo-1.4.14-i486-1
cdrdao-1.2.1-i486-1
__coreutils
dbus-1.1.20-i486-1
dbus-glib-0.74-i486-2
dbus-qt3-0.70-i486-2
desktop-file-utils-0.14-i486-1
dvd+rw-tools-7.1-i486-1
faac-1.26-i586-2gsb
faad2-2.6.1-i586-2gsb
ffmpeg-svn_13024-i586-2gsb
flac-1.2.1-i486-1
__freetype-2.3.5-i486-1
gamin-0.1.9-i486-1
gcc-4.2.3-i486-1
gcc-g++-4.2.3-i486-1
__ghostscript-8.62-i486-5
__ghostscript-puppy
glib2-2.16.5-i586-1gsb
glibc-2.7-i486-10
glibc-profile-2.7-i486-10
glibc-solibs-2.7-i486-10
gmp-4.2.2-i486-1
gnome-icon-theme-2.22.0-noarch-1
gnutls-1.6.3-i486-1_slack12.0
gnutls-2.2.5-i486-1_slack12.1
gtk+2-2.12.9-i486-1
__gutenprint-5.0.2-i486-1
hal-0.5.10-i486-2
hal-info-20080317-noarch-1
__lcms-1.17-i486-1
libart_lgpl-2.3.20-i486-1
libcddb-1.3.0-i486-1
libgsf-1.14.8-i486-1
__libICE-1.0.4-i486-1-moved
__libidn-1.5-i486-1
__libjpeg-6b-i486-5
__libmng-1.0.10-i486-1
__libpng-1.2.27-i486-1
__libSM-1.0.3-i486-1-moved
libtool-1.5.24-i486-1
__libX11-1.1.4-i486-1-moved
__libXcursor-1.1.9-i486-1-moved
__libXext-1.0.4-i486-1-moved
__libXft-2.1.12-i486-2-moved
__libXinerama-1.0.3-i486-1-moved
libxml2-2.6.31-i486-2
__libXmu-1.0.4-i486-1-moved
__libXrandr-1.2.2-i486-1-moved
__libXrender-0.9.4-i486-1-moved
libxslt-1.1.22-i486-1
__mesa-7.0.2-i486-1-moved
__ncurses
__openssl-0.9.8h-i486-1_slack12.1
pango-1.20.0-i486-1
__pcre-7.7-i486-1_slack12.1
pgrep
pixman-0.10.0-i486-4
__poppler-0.6.4-i486-1
__poppler1-old
popt-1.7-i486-2
__qt-3.3.8b-i486-2
udev-118-i486-3
x264-snapshot_20080430_2245-i586-1gsb

There are other folders with more libs, but you just need these.
You could even remove some of them, not everyone is explicitly needed.

Download:muppy008.4cbuild.tgz, development.tgz:
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/Muppy0084/fi ... ildsystem/

Mark

[WhoDo]

I have suggested that big_bass leads the team. Hope you are available, big_bass. This is not a rush project, and you've already moved far ahead.

I'd second that, raffy. Quiet achievers are a rarity and big_ bass is certainly one of those. Go for it, b_b!

[Aitch]

"Go for it b_b"

2nd that, however I believe ttuuxxx is interested in working with you on this

more teamwork

Aitch

[raffy]

Yes, he has started a discussion.

[big_bass]

Barry's recent post has touched on Puppy 5.0: http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00416

Then there is the much-praised Slackware compatibility of 3.x. Well, someone can rebuild 4.1 with the latest Slackware packages if they want. It is a straightforward process, just very time consuming. 3.x is based on Slackware 12 packages, so is getting a bit long in the tooth. If someone wants to rebuild Unleashed 4.1 with the latest Slackware packages, then call it 5.0, why not? Go for it.

I have suggested that big_bass leads the team. Hope you are available, big_bass. This is not a rush project, and you've already moved far ahead.

WhoDo
I'd second that, raffy. Quiet achievers are a rarity and big_ bass is certainly one of those. Go for it, b_b! Razz

Thanks guys .

That's a definite... I would like to help out.

And do what I already started to do.
if you guys and others like the results then ....?


Leading ? I only care about keeping puppy updated and more compatible
with other packages

Collectively there is much talent alone we fail

I spend too much time trying to make things work and learning new things

Count me in as a long term puppy supporter
And don't forget to put me on the the list
of team players


big_bass aka Joe A

[raffy]

I only care about keeping puppy updated and more compatible with other packages

Collectively there is much talent alone we fail

I spend too much time trying to make things work and learning new things

Count me in as a long term puppy supporter
And don't forget to put me on the the list
of team players

Thanks, big_bass, your attitude (similar to many others') is wealth in this community.

[ttuuxxx]

Hi bigbass

I was talking to another developer and they basically said the best way to make "puppy 5.0 GTS" slackware version is basically, Install the latest Slackware 12.1 which I just downloaded 2.1 gigs worth. Then compile the needed applications which will take some time and then patch the kernel and install/try the default puppy only applications/scrpts and update the devx.
What I figured would work is build it without patching the kernel, install the packages, updated the devx and then hand it over to someone with kernel patching experience to patch it for maybe new small laptops, like eepc and acer-one and other puppy related patches, I'm sure a 2.1 gig distro isn't patched for these small computers, I could be wrong. But it wouldn't make sense due to the fact it wouldn't probably fit/run on them. ?
I don't own one so I don't have a clue.

How you think think it should be worked out?
I'm going to start compiling tomorrow when I get up.
ttuuxxx