Puppy 4.2 Alpha3 Seamonkey Bugs & Fixes

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capoverde
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#81 Post by capoverde »

Downloaded Alpha3 yesterday, tested only today.

The calendar takes quite a bit to appear, the clock then shows up at the first mouseclick, anywhere on the screen (known issue); seems done on purpose, LOL.

Clicking over the browser icon in the upper tray doesn't start anything, whereas other apps are started clicking over their respective "placeholders" although no icon is present (possibly already known issue too?).

Hope nobody feels offended, but after playing a bit with 4.2Alphas I must say that the pop-in top tray and side tabs, though giving a geeky touch, are not so very useful as they sometimes are rather a nuisance -- guess nobody adds icons or widgets every day, thus the standard entries in the main menu should suffice; and the top tray simply doubles some of the apps in the menu or in the desktop icons. Just one exception: the shutdown button on the top tray, which might easily be replaced by a suitable icon on the desktop.

In the long run, Barry's more spartan choices (simple, fast, secure) are always Puppy's strongest points...

As for Whodo's proposal of a CUPS-less Alpha4, that's OK with me if that means an overall cleaner and updated printing system in the future. And seeing how much work has already been done, I refrain from asking Ttuuxxx to recompile mhWaveEdit in order to have the same result we can get by simply adding some 20 bytes of text... (Re. my previous post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 130#270130 and Whodo's reply: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 162#270162)

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ttuuxxx
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#82 Post by ttuuxxx »

Testing Version, Works on Ext3, Use with Caution on 'Windows Partitions '


Ok guys here's the thing for about 2 months I've been using a 12GB Pup_save file, its worked perfect, never let me down once, and you know how much compiling I've been doing. Also Lately I've been using a 15GB Pup_save file, So today I updated the script, Made it easier to understand with about 50% less words, makes it much less confusing. Plus I changed the menu icon to the silver puppy logo, so it would be easier to find in the menu, Plus its called 'Pup_Save' well here's a screenshot and a package.
ttuuxxx
Attachments
pupsave.jpg
(67.86 KiB) Downloaded 1037 times
Pupsave.pet
(2.56 KiB) Downloaded 751 times
Last edited by ttuuxxx on Wed 04 Feb 2009, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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HairyWill
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#83 Post by HairyWill »

ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
My understanding was that you rolled back to a fresh copy of your default pup_save quite regularly. What is the longest that you have used the same pup_save without reverting?
How full have you got it?
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]

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ttuuxxx
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#84 Post by ttuuxxx »

HairyWill wrote:ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
My understanding was that you rolled back to a fresh copy of your default pup_save quite regularly. What is the longest that you have used the same pup_save without reverting?
How full have you got it?
Well with my 12GB I was using I usually would bring it down to about 3GB and then I would delete it, and replace it with my backup 12GB, right now I have two 15GB pup_save files, That I just started up a few hours back, because before I had icewm+parcellite etc a few apps that at the time weren't included with puppy, but are now, so I started over from scratch.
The longest I used a Large Pupsave file is about 2.5 weeks without any fault what so ever.
All I did to increase the pup_save script is followed the example before me and increased it, then I tested each new setting, It all works for my pc.
ttuuxxx
Last edited by ttuuxxx on Wed 04 Feb 2009, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

aragon
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#85 Post by aragon »


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rcrsn51
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#86 Post by rcrsn51 »

Regarding CUPS:

At the very least, you should release a version that has authentication turned OFF. This should just be a matter of modifying the appropriate directives in cupsd.conf.

Are the developers also working on BarryK's cups_shell front end? I have two quibbles with it.

1. It uses a basic HTML viewer from the mozilla package to open the CUPS web interface instead of the user's default browser. This viewer has no Back or Forward buttons, so the only way to make a change is by starting the session over.

2. For some reason, cups_shell creates all the Gutenprint PPD files at the start of the session and deletes them at the end. This forces the user to go through the wizard, with its confusing pause, instead of launching the web interface directly. I can't see any good reason for this, other than possibly to reduce space.

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ttuuxxx
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#87 Post by ttuuxxx »

rcrsn51 wrote:Regarding CUPS:

At the very least, you should release a version that has authentication turned OFF. This should just be a matter of modifying the appropriate directives in cupsd.conf.

Are the developers also working on BarryK's cups_shell front end? I have two quibbles with it.

1. It uses a basic HTML viewer from the mozilla package to open the CUPS web interface instead of the user's default browser. This viewer has no Back or Forward buttons, so the only way to make a change is by starting the session over.

2. For some reason, cups_shell creates all the Gutenprint PPD files at the start of the session and deletes them at the end. This forces the user to go through the wizard, with its confusing pause, instead of launching the web interface directly. I can't see any good reason for this, other than possibly to reduce space.
#1 The last couple of release I made of cups used 'defaultbrowser' so that you could use the back and forward button, which I also found handy.

#2 When I start building the next version very shortly after WhoDo releases the next alpha, First I'm going to try to get it going by the package defaults, then I'll see what scripts are needed if need be and consult the forum on the outcomes, maybe make 2 or 3 packages. My main goal is to get it as small and stable as possible. Plus make it user friendly somewhat. Plus I hope to have some of the developers join in if scripts need to made. :) and make it a group project.

ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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HairyWill
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#88 Post by HairyWill »

HairyWill wrote:ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
How many people do you think will benefit from the change?

I suspect that there may be problems with filesystems that do not support files as big as the dialog allows to resize to. I am also concerned about performance issues when trying to do a large resize on ntfs. Also image trying to do a 15GB resize with p133 processor, the user needs to be made aware that the next boot may take many minutes while the resize is done. I haven't tested it but a p133 might take an hour to do a 15GB resize. This has the potential to cause problems for more people than it helps.

Every change introduces a risk of breaking something. We need to be aware of and manage/mitigate that risk where it is justified. It would be nice to fix the problems we have already before introducing new ones.

One of the differences between the trunk puppy version and puplets is that the trunk version needs to ensure that it is feeding its improvements back into the base packages that it is constructed from. This means it is important to know which original package to patch.
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]

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ttuuxxx
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#89 Post by ttuuxxx »

HairyWill

When I make a 15 gig pupsave at boot it takes around 5mins or less on a sata2, its much quicker than say moving a 15 gig partition on a hard drive.
I could add a caution on the script, That sounds about right?
what do you think?
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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HairyWill
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#90 Post by HairyWill »

HairyWill wrote:
HairyWill wrote:ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
How many people do you think will benefit from the change?
ttuuxxx
I can't force you to answer my questions, but if you want to have a discussion then you should.
You probably need to check the code in init as well to see exactly how it handles this for every case.
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]

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ttuuxxx
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#91 Post by ttuuxxx »

HairyWill wrote:
HairyWill wrote:
HairyWill wrote:ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
How many people do you think will benefit from the change?
ttuuxxx
I can't force you to answer my questions, but if you want to have a discussion then you should.
You probably need to check the code in init as well to see exactly how it handles this for every case.
Sorry I wasn't avoiding your question, It just slipped by,
Well since I've been using the large pup_save files I now install puppy, before I ran live over 1yr, because When I ran live I had more memory then installing, it was almost double, well until I figured out how to alter the pupsave, since then I've been very happy with the frugal install, The strange thing is that I could never get a swap drive working either, could that be a sata2 thing?
Everytime I boot up live or frugal I get swap failed in red, and everytime I try to make one in gparted, it deletes the partition and makes the swap and when it refreshes I get a yellow caution sign. and it doesn't work, Thats why I was forced either to run live or use a very large swap.
So to answer you question yes I think a lot of users might find a real use out of this. Like I have.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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ttuuxxx
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#92 Post by ttuuxxx »

I also would like to see that script redone with gtk dialog and maybe 2 tabs like the first tab a regular 16mb-512mb and the second tab say large file.
The first tab could be the intro, plus the regular dialog and the second tab could have Caution for power users, use at your own risk, etc
Plus it would look so much nicer and fit in better with the rest of the dialogs/scripts. I found that sort of code that its built on very limiting,
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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HairyWill
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#93 Post by HairyWill »

ttuuxxx wrote:Like I have.
I personally do not find your rather specific example a good justification for the general case.
HairyWill wrote:ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
You still haven't answered these.
It is not my place to determine what goes into the iso. You don't have to justify it to me,however you did ask.
ttuuxxx wrote:what do you think?
My concerns are not yet satisfied.

If it takes you 5 minutes to create a 15GB pupsave on a sata disk with presumably a processor of at least 1000mHz. Someone with my example old clunker who didn't read the dialog carefully would probably think that the boot process had crashed.
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]

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ttuuxxx
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#94 Post by ttuuxxx »

HairyWill wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:Like I have.
I personally do not find your rather specific example a good justification for the general case.
HairyWill wrote:ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?
You still haven't answered these.
It is not my place to determine what goes into the iso. You don't have to justify it to me,however you did ask.
ttuuxxx wrote:what do you think?
My concerns are not yet satisfied.

If it takes you 5 minutes to create a 15GB pupsave on a sata disk with presumably a processor of at least 1000mHz. Someone with my example old clunker who didn't read the dialog carefully would probably think that the boot process had crashed.
Well I've been just running it under all the alpha's and before that I was running it under 4.1, And as for the question which package it goes in the original unleashed, I can have a look tomorrow, I have the unleashed locally, Its late tonight 4am.
ttuuxxx

ext3 is the file system oops :)
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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#95 Post by HairyWill »

super
I think fat and maybe ntfs will cause problems
Will
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rcrsn51
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#96 Post by rcrsn51 »

Regarding CUPS:
Patriot wrote:I know that the default CUPS 1.1.23 works just fine.
ttuuxxx wrote:The older cups wasn't working out of the box, its been patched on top of patches, on top of patches, Its old and ugly and not so user friendly, The newer one has worked but with issues, and some of the issues is that we were applying the newer version overtop the older version, which it wasn't made to do and patching it along the way and blowing up the package size, we need a clean slate like WhoDo has kindly offered, better late then never, Its not really going to hurt anybody, not to have cups in 1 release. It might take a couple of days of testing, but the end result will be a more stable and smaller package of cups. I'll recompress the images, clean up formating etc and make it small as possible, without removing any functions.
ttuuxxx wrote:...I have no way of testing cups because the only printer I have is on my wifes pc, my other 2 pc's don't have a printer,
ttuuxxx wrote: It makes it hard to focus on one task that I can't even fully test,lol
Sigh.

Jim1911
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#97 Post by Jim1911 »

This alpha release really looks good and runs great as a frugal install, haven't tried it otherwise.

A few problems, some of which others have experienced also:
1. There are icons showing for 6 non-existing partitions, one of which is shown mounted. (Using the Desktop drive icons manager, I just unchecked the tick boxes to remove all from the desktop.)
2. P-widgets is a fine addition but the clock doesn't show until you click somewhere on the desktop. Also, how do you change the weather application so that it shows temps in F instead of C?
3. CUPS not working, error message (404 Not Found). EDIT: Installed the cups-s.4b2-i386-v2.pet which appeared to install properly, however got the same error message.
4. Parcellite doesn't work.

Consider adding Gslapt. It works fine with this alpha. If it can't be added, how about including it on the Puppy site as an official pet file so that it will show up in the package manager? Also, we need official pet files on the Puppy web site for the latest versions of other more powerful browsers such as Firefox 3.06 and Opera 9 both of which work great with this alpha.

Thanks to all the developers who have put so much effort into making this super release.

Jim
Last edited by Jim1911 on Wed 04 Feb 2009, 19:27, edited 1 time in total.

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dogone
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Super Size It

#98 Post by dogone »

ttuuxxx, with utmost respect, I share Hairywill's concerns. I too have created an 11GB pup_save on an ext2 partition and found it to work just fine. Creation took less than 10 minutes on a 2GHz Athlon and recent PATA drive.

*However*, the integrity of Puppy's save file is paramount. Unlike the pup_xxx file, if the pup_save file fails, all user data can go with it. A few such occurances and we could find ourselves doing heavy duty damage control in Puppydom.

I believe this great new feature needs LOTS of wors-tcase testing on all subject file systems and a range of hardware with no, light and heavy encryption. Note too that, like it or not, we must consider Vista and Windows 7 FS abberations as well. Lots of permutations and no room for error.

Forgive, but I suggest you revise your post to indicate that testing of your new script has "begun" and that it's yet unproved (potentially dangerous). It might be wise the rename the script accordingly. Some careful testing by you, me, Harrywill and others, should only take a week or two. I suggest then bouncing the idea off Barry. That done, it should be safe to move forward.

Sorry to come across like a bad day with Mum. I just don't want to see Puppy pee the carpet.

aragon
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#99 Post by aragon »

capoverde wrote:And seeing how much work has already been done, I refrain from asking Ttuuxxx to recompile mhWaveEdit in order to have the same result we can get by simply adding some 20 bytes of text... (Re. my previous post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 130#270130 and Whodo's reply: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 162#270162)
i haven't seen this before, otherwise i've included a solution for my actual build. possible solutions:

1. symlink xmixer to sgmixer => tested works
2. /root/mhwaveedit/config with 'mixerUtility = sgmixer' => tested works
3. recompile with patch

1. is an easy winner.
2. I don't like to include config-files (if the user has already one...)
3. most work, but mhwaveedit is easy. if so, i would like to recompile with support for libsamplerate, as this will increase the possibilities of mhwaveedit. Plinejs Libsamplerate-package from here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=25372 has always worked for me and is only 104 kb.

@whodo
please choose and post and i will repack/recompile it.

aragon

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HairyWill
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#100 Post by HairyWill »

aragon
I don't know how sensible a suggestion this is what do you think.

The config file could be upgraded by pinstall.sh.

I presume that these are not run when an iso is built from unleashed so how about dropping a patch script into /root/Startup that fixes the config file and then deletes itself.

It seems a bit of a cludge but it could work.

I wonder if it would be possible to extend the pet packaging specification to include lists of files that should not be overwitten on install or maybe upgrade. Seems quite an involved problem.
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]

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